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Posted: 4/29/2020 2:26:19 PM EDT
So I haven’t shit my Ciener kit that lives in its own upper in years. For two days I’ve tried to run it with different ammo but I keep getting light primer kits after maybe 2-3 rounds.  Before I start breaking this apart and changing springs, what is everyone’s spring set up and recommendations?

Thanks
Link Posted: 4/30/2020 10:20:39 AM EDT
[#1]
A little info here.
I had a similar problem with mine and a lightly polished the moving parts.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Ciener_kit_problems__light_primer_strikes___ejection/15-385209/
Link Posted: 5/1/2020 12:00:20 PM EDT
[#2]
As your unit is older, another possibility is that over time the frame rails might have warped.  Look and/or use a straight edge to make sure the frame is true.

Best of luck.

MHO, YMMV, etc.  Be well.
Link Posted: 5/4/2020 1:21:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SecondAmend:
As your unit is older, another possibility is that over time the frame rails might have warped.  Look and/or use a straight edge to make sure the frame is true.

Best of luck.

MHO, YMMV, etc.  Be well.
View Quote



Bolt Bounce or Hammer Follow. I had both. I solved the BB issue, and thought it still existed, ended up being hammer follow.

Others also struggled with timing....

All of these can lead to marks on the rimfire cartridges that look like light primer strike.

Link Posted: 5/4/2020 3:36:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Nada-Nada:



Bolt Bounce or Hammer Follow. I had both. I solved the BB issue, and thought it still existed, ended up being hammer follow. 

Others also struggled with timing....

All of these can lead to marks on the rimfire cartridges that look like light primer strike. 

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Nada-Nada:
Originally Posted By SecondAmend:
As your unit is older, another possibility is that over time the frame rails might have warped.  Look and/or use a straight edge to make sure the frame is true.

Best of luck.

MHO, YMMV, etc.  Be well.



Bolt Bounce or Hammer Follow. I had both. I solved the BB issue, and thought it still existed, ended up being hammer follow. 

Others also struggled with timing....

All of these can lead to marks on the rimfire cartridges that look like light primer strike. 



Warped frame rails can be so bent that there is drag on the anti-bounce weight (ABW) thereby preventing the ABW from getting into position for stopping bolt bounce, but not so bent that it slows down the bolt very much, leaving the bolt with enough velocity to generate bounce.  Or at least that was my experience.  CMMG replaced the 7+ yo frame free of charge.

Easy, free, and quick to check for warped rails by putting a ruler/straight edge on the frame.

MHO, YMMV, etc.  Be well.
Link Posted: 5/5/2020 4:32:05 PM EDT
[#5]
There was a tutorial on the old subguns board with everything on how to fix the Ceiner 22 kits for M-16's , Might post over there and someone may have it saved. It made Ceiner mad, but made his customers happy.
Link Posted: 5/7/2020 1:31:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Thanks all for the help
Link Posted: 5/7/2020 2:01:40 PM EDT
[#7]
My JP speed hammer and spring wouldn't set off many rimfire rounds.  I changed it out.
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 7:51:09 PM EDT
[#8]
So it looks like my hammer is just riding the bolt home.  So I imagine the Ciener trip is now engaging the sear right off.  Has anyone been successful in altering the Ciener auto trip?
Link Posted: 5/14/2020 10:10:19 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stryker:
So it looks like my hammer is just riding the bolt home.  So I imagine the Ciener trip is now engaging the sear right off.  Has anyone been successful in altering the Ciener auto trip?
View Quote


Going back to your opening post, it seems that you may feel that the recoil spring is possibly weak.  A weak recoil spring vis a vis the hammer spring can cause the hammer to over run the bolt, thus simulating 'riding'.  Using a trigger gauge to measure recoil spring force a few years ago, I found that to work effectively (i.e., strip ammo off the mag, trip the auto sear, push the ammo up the ramp and into the chamber,and keep the bolt ahead of the hammer) the recoil spring when the bolt is pulled back so that the spring tube is about 1/16" off the back plate should have a force of 4 1/2# - 5#.  At about 3 3/4# - 4# operation may suffer.  Below 3 1/2# tended result in lowered reliability.

FWIW, the Ciener/Atchisson pattern sear trip does not appear to be designed to be altered.  In any case, I've not ever found it necessary to bend any of the CMMG sear trips that I have.

Best of luck.  MHO, YMMV, etc.  Be well.
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