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Posted: 11/28/2018 11:00:51 PM EDT
Received my approved Form 1 for my SBR. It's only my second one, so still very new to this. Unlike my first, the "passport" photo is no longer attached on this one. Is this going to be a problem?

EDIT: And by not attached, I mean its non-existent period.
Link Posted: 11/23/2018 7:10:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Do you have a copy of the photo you submitted with the form? If so, I'd just paste a copy in its place.
Link Posted: 11/23/2018 7:15:17 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Do you have a copy of the photo you submitted with the form? If so, I'd just paste a copy in its place.
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Nah, I had two photos standard passport printed for me at CVS or somewhere back in like Feb. Didn't think I'd need spares
Link Posted: 11/23/2018 7:27:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Might want to cross reference this in the nfa sub forum in the armory.
Link Posted: 11/23/2018 7:32:03 PM EDT
[#4]
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Nah, I had two photos standard passport printed for me at CVS or somewhere back in like Feb. Didn't think I'd need spares
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Do you have a copy of the photo you submitted with the form? If so, I'd just paste a copy in its place.
Nah, I had two photos standard passport printed for me at CVS or somewhere back in like Feb. Didn't think I'd need spares
I mean as far as it goes, you didn't do anything wrong. You submitted your form and it was approved... not your fault they sent it back without a photo. That said, on the off chance you ever have to show your stamp to anyone, showing a copy with a missing photo might cause some extra questions. Assuming it's LE asking, and they even know what they are looking at (most don't), it could be a potential issue I guess. I'd probably contact the NFA Branch and let them advise you on how to proceed (maybe place a new photo there or just leave it as is).
Link Posted: 11/23/2018 7:38:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Approved Form 1/4s for a trust don't have a photo on them, either. (Different instructions)

Can't imagine anybody but an ATF agent would even notice, and even then, it's a pretty remote chance.
Link Posted: 11/23/2018 8:55:28 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Approved Form 1/4s for a trust don't have a photo on them, either. (Different instructions)

Can't imagine anybody but an ATF agent would even notice, and even then, it's a pretty remote chance.
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None of mine have pictures on the stamp
Link Posted: 11/23/2018 9:04:57 PM EDT
[#7]
As long as it has the approved stamp you're good to go.  I've never even had to show my stamps to anyone.
Link Posted: 11/23/2018 10:25:46 PM EDT
[#8]
No photos on any of my returned Form 1’s, never seen one returned with a photo before.
Link Posted: 11/23/2018 11:23:52 PM EDT
[#9]
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No photos on any of my returned Form 1’s, never seen one returned with a photo before.
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And they were sent in as individual with the photo?
Link Posted: 11/24/2018 12:14:35 AM EDT
[#10]
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And they were sent in as individual with the photo?
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No photos on any of my returned Form 1’s, never seen one returned with a photo before.
And they were sent in as individual with the photo?
All were filed as a trust, with a photo, I should have clarified that.
Link Posted: 11/28/2018 3:05:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Update in case anyone is curious in the future:

Contacted the ATF, they told me that because I had my suppressor form approved just last month, they simply used the photo that was on already on file.
Link Posted: 11/28/2018 3:36:29 PM EDT
[#12]
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As long as it has the approved stamp you're good to go.  I've never even had to show my stamps to anyone.
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Nor should you be required to, frankly.  It's a tax document, so unless they have an actual warrant, LE have no business perusing your tax documents.

In MD they can go to MSP and get the copy you submit there; if they want to know if it's been approved they can call ATF and ask.  Their job is to INVESTIGATE possible crimes, they aren't someone I have to PROVE my innocence to just because they don't understand the law.  And before anyone claims otherwise, no, they can't just confiscate the item and hold it until they determine it's lawful.  I'm happy to let them write down a serial number and do their own homework (and if i'm in a public place like the range I certainly can't stop them from writing it down or taking photos, so NBD there).

That said, I do have scanned copies of all my Forms 1 and 4 on my phone and on my personal laptop, as well as on an external hard drive (and in cloud storage) just in case.  But by law, if someone isn't from the Department of Revenue (or ATF now that they split from Revenue to justify their continued existence) I have no obligation to provide that information, nor does LE have the lawful ability to force me to provide it.
Link Posted: 11/28/2018 7:13:32 PM EDT
[#13]
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they aren't someone I have to PROVE my innocence to just because they don't understand the law.  And before anyone claims otherwise, no, they can't just confiscate the item and hold it until they determine it's lawful...........

I have no obligation to provide that information, nor does LE have the lawful ability to force me to provide it.
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they aren't someone I have to PROVE my innocence to just because they don't understand the law.  And before anyone claims otherwise, no, they can't just confiscate the item and hold it until they determine it's lawful...........

I have no obligation to provide that information, nor does LE have the lawful ability to force me to provide it.
This depends on the state.  In many states the law is written that certain NFA items are illegal, but it is an affirmative defense .  That includes MD.
5-203. Possession of short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun.
(a)  Prohibited.- A person may not possess a short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun unless:
(2) the short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle has been registered with the federal government in accordance with federal law.
(b)  Burden of proof.- In a prosecution under this section, the defendant has the burden of proving the lawful registration of the short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.
While you don't have to show your forms in many states, in some the burden of proof is on you.  You might find yourself detained until you can prove your innocence.
Link Posted: 11/28/2018 8:07:30 PM EDT
[#14]
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This depends on the state.  In many states the law is written that certain NFA items are illegal, but it is an affirmative defense .  That includes MD.

While you don't have to show your forms in many states, in some the burden of proof is on you.  You might find yourself detained until you can prove your innocence.
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Burden of proof applies to being in actual court and having charges filed against you, not johnny-on-the-spot at the range on his off-duty time looking for an easy promotion.

If they want to waste their time and money that's fine.  They still have to be able to articulate facts that would make a reasonable person suspect the items were illegal before they could arrest.  Being at a public range, with serial numbers on all items (as well as trust information engraved on the SBRs) and the confirmation from the RSO that all items were lawfully possessed, they'd have a very difficult time explaining why they thought it was illegal.  Especially since a person's choice to refuse to answer questions without first consulting an attorney can't in and of itself be considered "reasonably supicious" in and of itself.  But don't let case law get in the way of being intimidated, cops lloooooove to lie to people to intimidate them into doing whatever the officer wants.  matter of fact they're actually trained to do just that--scare the person, make 'em think all hell will break loose unless they do EVERYTHING the officer tells them.  And sadly most people don't understand what they ACTUALLY are required to do by law, they just don't want to risk hurting the officer's ego and being injured for "resisting".

OF COURSE it's "much easier" to just show them the stamps, and OF COURSE if they were at least professional enough to be polite and ask things like "if they're lawfully owned would you mind if i saw the stamps?"  hey no problem.

all about attitude.  and sadly in MD it's usually "I AM GOVERNMENT I OWN YOU DO WHAT I SAY NOW".  that's why our very own AACO PD just shot and killed a man for refusing to allow them to confiscate his guns without due process, criminal charges, or even a verified criminal complaint.  but don't worry, the officers involved aren't being named, NO body cam video has been released, we all just have to trust them that everything was cool and they didn't exceed bounds of the law at all.
Link Posted: 11/29/2018 12:58:35 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:

Burden of proof applies to being in actual court and having charges filed against you, not johnny-on-the-spot at the range on his off-duty time looking for an easy promotion.

If they want to waste their time and money that's fine.  They still have to be able to articulate facts that would make a reasonable person suspect the items were illegal before they could arrest.  Being at a public range, with serial numbers on all items (as well as trust information engraved on the SBRs) and the confirmation from the RSO that all items were lawfully possessed, they'd have a very difficult time explaining why they thought it was illegal.  Especially since a person's choice to refuse to answer questions without first consulting an attorney can't in and of itself be considered "reasonably supicious" in and of itself.  But don't let case law get in the way of being intimidated, cops lloooooove to lie to people to intimidate them into doing whatever the officer wants.  matter of fact they're actually trained to do just that--scare the person, make 'em think all hell will break loose unless they do EVERYTHING the officer tells them.  And sadly most people don't understand what they ACTUALLY are required to do by law, they just don't want to risk hurting the officer's ego and being injured for "resisting".

OF COURSE it's "much easier" to just show them the stamps, and OF COURSE if they were at least professional enough to be polite and ask things like "if they're lawfully owned would you mind if i saw the stamps?"  hey no problem.

all about attitude.  and sadly in MD it's usually "I AM GOVERNMENT I OWN YOU DO WHAT I SAY NOW".  that's why our very own AACO PD just shot and killed a man for refusing to allow them to confiscate his guns without due process, criminal charges, or even a verified criminal complaint.  but don't worry, the officers involved aren't being named, NO body cam video has been released, we all just have to trust them that everything was cool and they didn't exceed bounds of the law at all.
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If they arrest you because you won’t show them paperwork when asked, then you’re getting your time wasted too.  All they need is probable cause, and the PC is that it’s illegal to possess a SBR, you were observed in possession with one, and the “you don’t need to see my papers because it’s taxes” attitude isn’t going to help.  They can and will detain you until you, or someone else, provides proof, and then they’ll let you go.  That’s time you’ll never get back, as well as hassle.  Then what?  Sue for false arrest?  Swear out complaint?  The reality is that they will simply say that all you had to do at any time was to show them the paperwork, so that’s on you.  No judge or jury would consider it false arrest, and any internal complaint will just side with the officers.  A no win game.
Link Posted: 11/29/2018 8:36:34 PM EDT
[#16]
I'll trade you the missing picture, for my missing stamp.  I had to send the Form 1 back, so they can attach a stamp.  Hoping it won't take months more, or get lost in the office.
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