User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
VA, USA
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Posted: 12/27/2021 9:42:19 PM EDT
Hi folks,
I’m considering an RPG-7 purchase. I know I can’t get real ammo nor would I want that. Similar to M203 chalk rounds, is there anything that can used with these? I’m trying to find online subcaliber kits or maybe just a rocket with the motor. Wondering if anybody knows anything. Thank You |
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Posted: 12/27/2021 9:57:35 PM EDT
[#1]
There were some 7.62x39mm trainer "rocket" devices for sale years ago (put cartridge in dummy rocket & shoot the cartridge, not a rocket).
Actual rockets might be DDs even if the warhead is inert. |
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Posted: 12/27/2021 11:13:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 18B30]
[#2]
No.....The amount of black powder and rocket propellant is way over 1/4 ounce.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2021 2:50:15 AM EDT
[#3]
Nope, the only option short of fabricating stabilizing fin assemblies and RPG bodies, booster charges, and rocket motors is the Czech subcaliber trainer. I saw one earlier this year on gunbroker for the first time in a few years. They pretty much stopped importing them for some reason, and whatever was sold back then is all that is left. If I remember correctly it sold for about 3k give or take a few hundred. Even the stabilizing fin assemblies and RPG grenade bodies are scarce and are selling for a pretty penny.
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Posted: 12/28/2021 3:06:42 AM EDT
[#4]
FEG in Budapest has hundreds of Trainer rounds that takes the Ak round like the Czech but none of the importers wanted it at the price we asked for it as that is what the government charged us in Hungary.
 Attached File Attached Fileyou insert the round in the back and there is a rifled barrel inside of the rocket. it works fairly well and is quite accurate. I displayed this for all importers and even brought one to SHOT as a sample. ATF says its not a firearm. all of the importers said their is no or very limited demand. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2021 3:15:55 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: FEG in Budapest has hundreds of Trainer rounds that takes the Ak round like the Czech but none of the importers wanted it at the price we asked for it as that is what the government charged us in Hungary. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20190613_130457__1__jpg-2219352.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20190613_130548_jpg-2219353.JPG you insert the round in the back and there is a rifled barrel inside of the rocket. it works fairly well and is quite accurate. I displayed this for all importers and even brought one to SHOT as a sample. ATF says its not a firearm. all of the importers said their is no or very limited demand. What was the asking price if you don't mind me asking? If you don't want to disclose it I understand. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2021 3:17:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dessert_Eagle]
[#6]
Haha little to no demand for the PUS-7 because there are no RPGs, but there are no RPGs because you can’t get a PUS-7. Wish they’d get imported!
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Posted: 12/28/2021 3:18:07 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By walkinginadangerzone: What was the asking price if you don't mind me asking? If you don't want to disclose it I understand. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By walkinginadangerzone: Originally Posted By Jozsi: FEG in Budapest has hundreds of Trainer rounds that takes the Ak round like the Czech but none of the importers wanted it at the price we asked for it as that is what the government charged us in Hungary. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20190613_130457__1__jpg-2219352.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20190613_130548_jpg-2219353.JPG you insert the round in the back and there is a rifled barrel inside of the rocket. it works fairly well and is quite accurate. I displayed this for all importers and even brought one to SHOT as a sample. ATF says its not a firearm. all of the importers said their is no or very limited demand. What was the asking price if you don't mind me asking? If you don't want to disclose it I understand. I can't do that.....because there are importers that read this...... But I will say it was less than $1000...but more than $600. |
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Posted: 12/28/2021 4:11:34 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: I can't do that.....because there are importers that read this...... But I will say it was less than $1000...but more than $600. Seems reasonable to me. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2021 1:04:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: I can't do that.....because there are importers that read this...... But I will say it was less than $1000...but more than $600. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: Originally Posted By walkinginadangerzone: Originally Posted By Jozsi: FEG in Budapest has hundreds of Trainer rounds that takes the Ak round like the Czech but none of the importers wanted it at the price we asked for it as that is what the government charged us in Hungary. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20190613_130457__1__jpg-2219352.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20190613_130548_jpg-2219353.JPG you insert the round in the back and there is a rifled barrel inside of the rocket. it works fairly well and is quite accurate. I displayed this for all importers and even brought one to SHOT as a sample. ATF says its not a firearm. all of the importers said their is no or very limited demand. What was the asking price if you don't mind me asking? If you don't want to disclose it I understand. I can't do that.....because there are importers that read this...... But I will say it was less than $1000...but more than $600. Totally understand, but man it would have been awesome to have one. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2021 1:22:37 PM EDT
[#10]
This is exactly why I haven't gone forward with an RPG build, no subcal trainer setup.
I agree it's a small market but I'm not one to own something just to look at so... |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2021 1:40:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Projectinfinity]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: I can't do that.....because there are importers that read this...... But I will say it was less than $1000...but more than $600. I’m a importer, but I’m a single man show. What’s the minimum quantity that could be brought in as a test? Beyond this sub form I’d be concerned of a lack of interest until proven otherwise. However I would consider a very small order and see how fast they sell, and go from there. With regards-Mat |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2021 2:34:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 18B30: No.....The amount of black powder and rocket propellant is way over 1/4 ounce. 1/4 is for the explosive payload, it’s 4 ounces propellant limit for a rocket motor |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2021 2:48:21 PM EDT
[#13]
I’m definitely considering doing an RPG7 book at some point, maybe the Iranian RPG7K for easier machining of the barrel (Two Pieces threaded together)
I was speaking to someone recently and they brought up the idea that the booster is not technically a rocket motor and is simply a shell which may not count toward the 4 ounce limit for a rocket. 4 ounces of APCP would definitely get an inert projectile moving after it kick in. Hard part is making some kind of delayed primer to start the rocket motor at a consistent distance |
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Posted: 12/28/2021 4:51:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: eodinert]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JonathanwFL: Hard part is making some kind of delayed primer to start the rocket motor at a consistent distance That's the easy part. People have been making pyro delays since before Jesus. It's just a powder train time delay initiated by setback from the launch motor. Paying $200 or more per shot is the hard part for most people, if you take into account time and materials to make a round (if you want a projo that is reasonably 'correct'). An OG-7 Anti-personnel round would be the easiest authentic round to make, since it doesn't have a rocket motor. You'd have to work out the launch motor, and be happy to put it next to your head a shoot it, but it's very doable. |
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Posted: 12/28/2021 5:45:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JonathanwFL: 1/4 is for the explosive payload, it’s 4 ounces propellant limit for a rocket motor @JonathanwFL You ever figure out an answer to your propellant limit/rocket type question? I'm still under the impression that the limit is only for explosive, incendiary, and poison gas rockets and that inert and marking rockets have no limit. 
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VA, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2021 5:47:39 PM EDT
[#16]
@projectinfinity
I would underscore as some have said here the availability of these kits are what’s needed to justify (or even ensure that the fire control group works) for any form 4 or form 1 RPG. I’d expect that a smaller quantity would be sold quickly. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2021 6:48:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cjsoccer4: @projectinfinity I would underscore as some have said here the availability of these kits are what’s needed to justify (or even ensure that the fire control group works) for any form 4 or form 1 RPG. I’d expect that a smaller quantity would be sold quickly. Same here. 
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OR, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2021 8:26:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eodinert: That's the easy part. People have been making pyro delays since before Jesus. It's just a powder train time delay initiated by setback from the launch motor. Paying $200 or more per shot is the hard part for most people, if you take into account time and materials to make a round (if you want a projo that is reasonably 'correct'). An OG-7 Anti-personnel round would be the easiest authentic round to make, since it doesn't have a rocket motor. You'd have to work out the launch motor, and be happy to put it next to your head a shoot it, but it's very doable. Personally I’d prefer a mechanical delay like the originals, I’ve seen to many blow up hand photos from 37mm/40mm bird bombs with that type of delay. Being next to your head would likely kill you if it ignite the propellant early and the motor CATOs. Although I think all rockets I use will be done remotely just out of safety but the cost to build a new launcher get expensive The OG-7 is definitely the most feasible and cost effective round and something I would shoot on shoulder |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2021 8:32:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mechanical: @JonathanwFL You ever figure out an answer to your propellant limit/rocket type question? I'm still under the impression that the limit is only for explosive, incendiary, and poison gas rockets and that inert and marking rockets have no limit. Unfortunately no confirmation yet, and not sure anyone wants me to write to the ATF either I reached out the US maker of RPGs and he said he doesn’t deal with making the rocket so he couldn’t clarify the laws. Proceed at your own risk, for me I’ll probably just DD all my rocket motors over 4 ounces as I don’t want to give the ATF/fed ammunition to retaliate against me for my book series |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2021 11:30:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JonathanwFL: Personally I’d prefer a mechanical delay like the originals, I’ve seen to many blow up hand photos from 37mm/40mm bird bombs with that type of delay. Being next to your head would likely kill you if it ignite the propellant early and the motor CATOs. Although I think all rockets I use will be done remotely just out of safety but the cost to build a new launcher get expensive The OG-7 is definitely the most feasible and cost effective round and something I would shoot on shoulder Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JonathanwFL: Originally Posted By eodinert: That's the easy part. People have been making pyro delays since before Jesus. It's just a powder train time delay initiated by setback from the launch motor. Paying $200 or more per shot is the hard part for most people, if you take into account time and materials to make a round (if you want a projo that is reasonably 'correct'). An OG-7 Anti-personnel round would be the easiest authentic round to make, since it doesn't have a rocket motor. You'd have to work out the launch motor, and be happy to put it next to your head a shoot it, but it's very doable. Personally I’d prefer a mechanical delay like the originals, I’ve seen to many blow up hand photos from 37mm/40mm bird bombs with that type of delay. Being next to your head would likely kill you if it ignite the propellant early and the motor CATOs. Although I think all rockets I use will be done remotely just out of safety but the cost to build a new launcher get expensive The OG-7 is definitely the most feasible and cost effective round and something I would shoot on shoulder A member here was going to register a F1 grenade with a mechanical fuze assembly. Don't know if it worked out, but something like that seems feasible, just gotta make it small enough to fit in the 40mm body. |
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Posted: 12/29/2021 11:51:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JonathanwFL: Personally I’d prefer a mechanical delay like the originals, The rocket on an RPG7 is initiated by setback forces from launch, with a short pyrotechnic delay. The fuze has mechanical delay before the explosive is armed, but it doesn't do anything for the rocket.  Attached FileIn this illustration, item (40) is held to the front of the motor by a spring. When the launch motor functions, it slides to the rear of the tube and strikes the firing pin (37). the pyrotechnic delay behind the firing pin burns, and ignites the pyro compound labeled (32). This ignites the propellant grains about 10 meters in front of the firer. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/29/2021 8:38:39 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By okent: This is exactly why I haven't gone forward with an RPG build, no subcal trainer setup. I agree it's a small market but I'm not one to own something just to look at so... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By okent: This is exactly why I haven't gone forward with an RPG build, no subcal trainer setup. I agree it's a small market but I'm not one to own something just to look at so... Originally Posted By cjsoccer4: @projectinfinity I would underscore as some have said here the availability of these kits are what’s needed to justify (or even ensure that the fire control group works) for any form 4 or form 1 RPG. I’d expect that a smaller quantity would be sold quickly. Originally Posted By Jozsi: FEG in Budapest has hundreds of Trainer rounds that takes the Ak round like the Czech but none of the importers wanted it at the price we asked for it as that is what the government charged us in Hungary. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20190613_130457__1__jpg-2219352.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20190613_130548_jpg-2219353.JPG you insert the round in the back and there is a rifled barrel inside of the rocket. it works fairly well and is quite accurate. I displayed this for all importers and even brought one to SHOT as a sample. ATF says its not a firearm. all of the importers said their is no or very limited demand. Originally Posted By walkinginadangerzone: Same here. @Jozsi, do you have a email you can PM me? Everyone else I’ll look into it. |
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Posted: 12/29/2021 9:36:24 PM EDT
[#23]
I will get you a price quote for ten of them. We can go easy...
If you are an importer.. I will get you the info for the Form 6. |
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Posted: 12/29/2021 10:06:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: eodinert]
[#24]
Put me on that list.
Do they come with the fake launch motor that screws on the back? Those are giving me an RPG2 vibe. Are you sure those are for an RPG7? Imma go out on a limb and guess PUSz-7 means RPG-7 in Hungarian.... but dang, that looks like an RPG-2. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/30/2021 1:10:15 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eodinert: Put me on that list. Do they come with the fake launch motor that screws on the back? Those are giving me an RPG2 vibe. Are you sure those are for an RPG7? Imma go out on a limb and guess PUSz-7 means RPG-7 in Hungarian.... but dang, that looks like an RPG-2. Seems like it's just a weird design.  Celeritas experience: RPG-7 |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 1/4/2022 11:33:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Projectinfinity: @Jozsi, do you have a email you can PM me? Everyone else I’ll look into it. please put me down for 1. if they're a reasonable price after importation and your profit, I Def want one. |
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Posted: 1/4/2022 11:56:58 PM EDT
[#27]
I am also interested in a sub-cal unit if you import some.
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OK, USA
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Posted: 1/6/2022 3:24:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Please put me on the list as well.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:04:50 AM EDT
[#29]
Good morning everybody, I just wanted to keep everyone in the loop, apparently the Hungarian government won’t let just 10 go, they want a larger shipment. I’m waiting on a response of what the minimum number is.
If it’s anything over 20 this gets real dicey from a financial standpoint, and I’d probably have to start taking preorder deposits. Let’s give it another week or two until I get their minimum number. If this actually does happen I don’t want to delude/mislead anybody into thinking these will be cheap, my cost isn’t yet determined but from a pure shipping perspective containers are up nearly 4 times what it was in 2019. Tldr, do not be surprised at a 1,400-1,500 dollar training rocket. However it’s still half compared to some of the Czech ones are going for. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/7/2022 7:55:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Put me down for one as well
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Posted: 1/7/2022 10:06:56 AM EDT
[#31]
Tag for interest.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/7/2022 10:23:33 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Projectinfinity: Good morning everybody, I just wanted to keep everyone in the loop, apparently the Hungarian government won’t let just 10 go, they want a larger shipment. I’m waiting on a response of what the minimum number is. If it’s anything over 20 this gets real dicey from a financial standpoint, and I’d probably have to start taking preorder deposits. Let’s give it another week or two until I get their minimum number. If this actually does happen I don’t want to delude/mislead anybody into thinking these will be cheap, my cost isn’t yet determined but from a pure shipping perspective containers are up nearly 4 times what it was in 2019. Tldr, do not be surprised at a 1,400-1,500 dollar training rocket. However it’s still half compared to some of the Czech ones are going for. Thanks for the update! |
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Posted: 1/7/2022 10:46:41 AM EDT
[#33]
I’m definitely in on one! I hesitated on the Czech trainers when they were cheap and available….
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Posted: 1/7/2022 10:24:02 PM EDT
[#34]
I'd buy two if that made a difference.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2022 7:03:34 AM EDT
[#35]
I would be down for one. I have always wondered why there were 3 grand and up.
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2022 3:34:10 PM EDT
[#36]
I saw on Gunbroker that Bowman Arms has some of the sub-caliber trainers. It was listed in the description of the "gov sales only" NOS Bulgarian RPG7s they're advertising...but stipulates government contract is required. I don't get why such a thing would, but im sure they got some odd reason.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 1/19/2022 9:40:47 AM EDT
[#37]
Count me in as well. I have no idea what im getting myself into but im willing to learn. ha
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/19/2022 6:51:30 PM EDT
[#38]
Anymore word on those trainers?
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:55:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mattnh]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nikonov: I saw on Gunbroker that Bowman Arms has some of the sub-caliber trainers. It was listed in the description of the "gov sales only" NOS Bulgarian RPG7s they're advertising...but stipulates government contract is required. I don't get why such a thing would, but im sure they got some odd reason. REASON - The import paperwork was originally submitted with that stipulation (& they cannot legally sell in violation of the import reason). The license may (or may not have been approved for import) without that stipulation, but it would not be legal to sell if that condition was on the import paperwork. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2022 6:29:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nikonov: Anymore word on those trainers? Negative, last word I have is that he’d ask around next week, (that was the 7th). I just sent a follow up email checking in seeing if he got an answer. As soon as I hear anything, I’ll update you guys. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:29:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Projectinfinity: Negative, last word I have is that he’d ask around next week, (that was the 7th). I just sent a follow up email checking in seeing if he got an answer. As soon as I hear anything, I’ll update you guys. Well, I did read somewhere that you need patience in the DD game. 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:15:51 AM EDT
[#42]
So bit of an update, I spoke to a well known importer of surplus combloc stuff. They stated these training rockets are in fact considered firearms by ATF (both this Hungarian model, and the Czech trainers as well).
As such these would normally NOT be importable as they would be considered “non sporting” by ATF and thus only available for government contracts. However according to József, FEG has such a quantity that a number of these may be of 1971/1972 manufacture. If that’s true, some would be considered C&R’s and be exempt from the sporting purpose clause. ATF told me they’d want one sent to the tech branch to examine one. They currently are running 6 to 12 months for a formal determination. Tldr was told bad news, but there is still a path, it’s tedious, is going to take a lot of time, and is going to be more expensive, but still may be possible. However if this is something I was to peruse, we’re looking around a year and a half, to two years before the first ones for public sale were available( provided everything goes right). |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:16:26 AM EDT
[#43]
If anyone was skeptical as to why it may take so long, here would be the time table,
30-45 days for first form 6 requesting importation for FATD examination, 45-60 days plus 300 Euros for EU export permit for 1 sample Probably another 14-21 days in preparing for shipping then the actual transit Then release from customs to ship to FATD FATD examination 6 to 12 months IF FATD says it’s importable because of a C&R status and doesn’t come up with another weird denial reason I’m not currently thinking of, Then another form 6 30-45 days Another EU export permit 45-60 days Probably a month in shipping preparation as due to quantity it would go on a container 3 weeks for shipping itself Each one would have to be engraved and logged in my books just like any other firearm Then pay 11% FET tax for each one. At that point ready for sale, and if one had a C&R license it would be available for shipment to your door, otherwise goes to your local FFL. I’m still open to doing it as a challenge. Just looking at (if they say it’s importable), mid to late 2023. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/31/2022 7:10:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Well that's terrible to hear...but at least the possibility isnt zero on these.
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Posted: 1/31/2022 5:15:50 PM EDT
[#45]
Go ahead and put me down for one as well, assuming it’s in the ballpark of the price range you previously estimated. I have a F1 Russian RPG-7 DD and a Czech PUS-7 Subcal trainer. Always wanted to buy a second subcal trainer round for insurance against breakdowns so I would be in for these FEG ones
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Posted: 1/31/2022 5:28:57 PM EDT
[#46]
Here are my thoughts on importation. Seems like there’s at least a number of people on here interested. I think you also have a number of people that haven’t done a F1 RPG because there’s no available trainers, which would change if these came in and were available. Furthermore you have those Airtronic USA made RPG-7’s that hit GunBroker a little while back(I bet each one of those purchasers would be interested in one). I think the market is there easily for 20, with likely 10 to 20 of them selling instantly
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/1/2022 10:43:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Projectinfinity: If anyone was skeptical as to why it may take so long, here would be the time table, 30-45 days for first form 6 requesting importation for FATD examination, 45-60 days plus 300 Euros for EU export permit for 1 sample Probably another 14-21 days in preparing for shipping then the actual transit Then release from customs to ship to FATD FATD examination 6 to 12 months IF FATD says it’s importable because of a C&R status and doesn’t come up with another weird denial reason I’m not currently thinking of, Then another form 6 30-45 days Another EU export permit 45-60 days Probably a month in shipping preparation as due to quantity it would go on a container 3 weeks for shipping itself Each one would have to be engraved and logged in my books just like any other firearm Then pay 11% FET tax for each one. At that point ready for sale, and if one had a C&R license it would be available for shipment to your door, otherwise goes to your local FFL. I’m still open to doing it as a challenge. Just looking at (if they say it’s importable), mid to late 2023. I'm still in if this goes forward. |
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Posted: 2/1/2022 2:57:58 PM EDT
[#48]
I am in for at least one and I am patient.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/1/2022 4:13:13 PM EDT
[#49]
I am in for 1.
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Posted: 2/13/2022 10:11:54 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: FEG in Budapest has hundreds of Trainer rounds that takes the Ak round like the Czech but none of the importers wanted it at the price we asked for it as that is what the government charged us in Hungary. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20190613_130457__1__jpg-2219352.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/313126/20190613_130548_jpg-2219353.JPG you insert the round in the back and there is a rifled barrel inside of the rocket. it works fairly well and is quite accurate. I displayed this for all importers and even brought one to SHOT as a sample. ATF says its not a firearm. all of the importers said their is no or very limited demand. I think it was ordnance.com that had listings on gunbroker a while back. Full rpg kit, launcher modified to be non nfa and “rocket” modified to be non sbr 7.62. IIRC it was $6k for a museum quality set up. Less for a beater with no accessories. They also had 60mm TRUMP mortar rounds that were reusable and took 2 shotgun blanks for propellant and impact. I’m still kicking myself for not buying the rpg. |
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