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USA
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Posted: 2/21/2023 7:35:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Nakanokalronin]
Ava Flanell had a video up for a new folding pcc from Smith & Wesson before it was taken down due to what I can only guess as releasing the video to early. It looked to take M&P magazines, used M&P back straps and folded from the side. It wasn't as compact looking as the Sub2K, but it was different. It had no sights, but did come with with what looked like a m-lok forend and the ability to hold two spare magazines in the butt-stock. The main thing I didn't like was the hinge on the one side seemed bulky and odd looking and there was an equally large hump a little further back on the opposite side of the gun for some reason. Maybe it was the the locking mechanism, but it certainly didn't look good. Anyone else catch the video before it was taken down?
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Posted: 2/21/2023 7:48:39 PM EDT
[#1]
No. However, I could be enticed. I may or may not have a lot of M&P 9 mags…
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Posted: 2/21/2023 7:53:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SpankMonkey]
[#2]
She made it private. It has 40 views.
Got a pic of it. Gonna post it in a few. Best I can do.  Attached File
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USA
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:26:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpankMonkey: She made it private. It has 40 views. Got a pic of it. Gonna post it in a few. Best I can do. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/154160/IMG_20230221_185602597_jpg-2719928.JPG It looks interesting but a little out of place the way everything is set up. At least more companies are trying to come out with folding carbines. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:27:56 PM EDT
[#4]
I posted your link in GD.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:29:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpankMonkey: She made it private. It has 40 views. Got a pic of it. Gonna post it in a few. Best I can do. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/154160/IMG_20230221_185602597_jpg-2719928.JPG That’s odd looking |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:30:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nakanokalronin: It looks interesting but a little out of place the way everything is set up. At least more companies are trying to come out with folding carbines. It does look odd. I guess it folds right behind the optic. Strange looking. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:33:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FightingHellfish]
[#7]
There’s a lot of weird going on with the stock, at least from that blurry angle.
The whole gun (from that one view) looks like Keltec and Beretta had a joint project. |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 8:36:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Kinda Star Wars-y....
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Posted: 2/21/2023 9:20:59 PM EDT
[#9]
S&W Sub 2000
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IN, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2023 9:46:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mav3rick]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _Matt_: That’s odd looking Looks like a keltec sub2k |
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Posted: 2/21/2023 10:32:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mav3rick: Looks like a keltec sub2k Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mav3rick: Originally Posted By _Matt_:That’s odd looking Looks like a keltec sub2k Looks like it folds to the right, which beats the SUB on optics mounting. With braces possibly going away, semi-auto rifles that fold to 16" are pretty handy. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/21/2023 10:48:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Am I the only one that sees a little mini MG42?
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2023 11:00:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: With braces possibly going away, semi-auto rifles that fold to 16" are pretty handy. And moving the magazine back to inside the grip saves inches of OAL as well. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 12:53:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -k-: And moving the magazine back to inside the grip saves inches of OAL as well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -k-: Originally Posted By backbencher: With braces possibly going away, semi-auto rifles that fold to 16" are pretty handy. And moving the magazine back to inside the grip saves inches of OAL as well. Unfolded OAL yes, but folded OAL is still going to be 16". I'm building a 16" bbl Fold-AR, it'll fold to 17" b/c of the bbl extension. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:38:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpankMonkey: I posted your link in GD. Link to GD thread? |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 4:07:52 AM EDT
[#16]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2023 4:18:24 AM EDT
[#17]
It's the second product-improved Keltec that S&W posted recently, the other was inspired by KSG. Can't wait for S&W rework of RFB, it's gonna slap hard.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2023 5:33:28 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zaitcev: It's the second product-improved Keltec that S&W posted recently, the other was inspired by KSG. Can't wait for S&W rework of RFB, it's gonna slap hard. A S&W RFB would be amazing. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 8:43:39 AM EDT
[#19]
First Ruger and now S&W just copy KelTec
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:07:22 AM EDT
[#20]
The sub2k has a version for m&p magazines... This kinda looks like a hi point carbine with it wierd angles
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:15:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Castillo: First Ruger and now S&W just copy KelTec Don't forget Taurus! There's only so much firearm design genius in each generation, and in this generation, George Kellgren got a generous heaping of it. What's everyone else gonna do? To be fair to Ruger & Smith, he's used both of their magazines in his designs - the Ruger 10/22 mag in the TEC-22, and the S&W 59 & M&P mags in his SUB-2000, as well as the 59 mag in the P-11. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/22/2023 9:27:46 AM EDT
[#22]
I really like the concept, a full size pcc that can drop in any backpack. The Sub2000's fatal flaw is not being able to mount a dot or other sights/optics. This one would get my attention if it comes to market, I would love to have something that could do what it could do.
And any pcc that doesn't load mags in through the grip is doing it wrong. 
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Posted: 2/22/2023 11:17:50 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rbass: I really like the concept, a full size pcc that can drop in any backpack. The Sub2000's fatal flaw is not being able to mount a dot or other sights/optics. This one would get my attention if it comes to market, I would love to have something that could do what it could do. And any pcc that doesn't load mags in through the grip is doing it wrong. The SUB can mount optics several different ways, although the S&W looks like the side folder will require fewer compromises. Make Scout Scopes great again? |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 11:27:32 AM EDT
[#24]
Saw this at LGS, front rotates 90 before folding to clear an optic.
Employee bought the first one they got in. Kel Tec SUB 2000 9mm 16" Barrel 17rd Integrally Suppressed. 
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:42:58 PM EDT
[#25]
I have the new Ruger PCC, as good as it should be, it's disappointing. I still use it, because I have a use for a gun in this category, but it will never be my favorite. It's too heavy, too bulky, and for having a barrel like a donkey dick, it's not really that accurate.
Interesting to see what S&W comes up with. Glock has left the building. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:51:55 PM EDT
[#26]
I want some of the new factory extended mags shown here without buying a gun package.
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:52:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RDTCU]
[#27]
High capacity double tap....
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Posted: 2/22/2023 2:53:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joemama74: I have the new Ruger PCC, as good as it should be, it's disappointing. I still use it, because I have a use for a gun in this category, but it will never be my favorite. It's too heavy, too bulky, and for having a barrel like a donkey dick, it's not really that accurate. Interesting to see what S&W comes up with. Glock has left the building. Are you mounting your optic on the bbl or the receiver on the Ruger? A number of folks @ shows pick up one of my SUBs and ask me how you put a pistol in it. They're so used to the pistol chassis they've never seen a folding rifle. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:11:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _Matt_: That’s odd looking Looks like it was originally going to be a braced pistol that was changed to a rifle after the new rulings. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:29:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joemama74: I have the new Ruger PCC, as good as it should be, it's disappointing. I still use it, because I have a use for a gun in this category, but it will never be my favorite. It's too heavy, too bulky, and for having a barrel like a donkey dick, it's not really that accurate. Interesting to see what S&W comes up with. Glock has left the building. I have one, sons plinker with a Form 1 can. He likes it but you're not wrong. My SBR Beretta CX4 is my favorite PCC but with trigger and housing upgrade, barrel cut and thread plus SBR stamp it wasn't cheap. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:36:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Dale: I have one, sons plinker with a Form 1 can. He likes it but you're not wrong. My SBR Beretta CX4 is my favorite PCC but with trigger and housing upgrade, barrel cut and thread plus SBR stamp it wasn't cheap. They're discontinued now, you can snap up a 92 magwell one in 9x19mm for $550 before they're gone. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:47:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: They're discontinued now, you can snap up a 92 magwell one in 9x19mm for $550 before they're gone. I've seen them for that, didn't know they were discontinued. I got mine for $600 with 5 mags several years but probably spent that much again on upgrades and a stamp. Other plus for me is I shoot left, so I swapped the eject side. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 3:55:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Dale: I've seen them for that, didn't know they were discontinued. I got mine for $600 with 5 mags several years but probably spent that much again on upgrades and a stamp. Other plus for me is I shoot left, so I swapped the eject side. Weren’t they discontinued once before, for about five years? |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 4:25:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish: Weren’t they discontinued once before, for about five years? I don't know. I know a few months ago there were FDE ones under $600. Guys on Beretta forum were buying them. I thought those were new production at the time. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/22/2023 6:44:04 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Dale: I don't know. I know a few months ago there were FDE ones under $600. Guys on Beretta forum were buying them. I thought those were new production at the time. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Dale: Originally Posted By FightingHellfish: Weren’t they discontinued once before, for about five years? I don't know. I know a few months ago there were FDE ones under $600. Guys on Beretta forum were buying them. I thought those were new production at the time. They seem to come in batches, and once the batch is sold it takes a while for the next. Worth the wait though, they’re fantastic little rifles. |
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Posted: 2/22/2023 7:44:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JT_26]
[#36]
Redacted.
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Posted: 2/23/2023 1:06:07 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Dale: Saw this at LGS, front rotates 90 before folding to clear an optic. Employee bought the first one they got in. Kel Tec SUB 2000 9mm 16" Barrel 17rd Integrally Suppressed. https://media.keltecweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/SUB2K_CQB_Right_DSC03528-1.jpg I didn't realize the CQB rotated. I thought about buying a handguard that did that for mine. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2023 9:15:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Just dropped.
 NEW: M&P® FPC™ Folding Carbine https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/fpc? |
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Posted: 2/28/2023 9:18:14 AM EDT
[#39]
That thing looks Fugly
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NC, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2023 9:24:32 AM EDT
[#40]
neat concept but it does look a bit odd.
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Posted: 2/28/2023 9:31:47 AM EDT
[#41]
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/fpc
Optics-ready. Integrated recoil buffer system. Reversible magazine catch. 30 3/8" unfolded length to 16 3/8" folded. 1/2-28 threaded muzzle with thread protector. Flat-face trigger with crisp break. Compatible with M&P® Pistol double-stack magazines. In-stock magazine storage w/quick-release tab system. Horizontal folding mechanism with locking latch. Horizontal folding design doesn’t interfere with top-mounted optics (optics sold separately). M-LOK® slots on handguard with Picatinny-style rail on top. Charging slide/handle doubles as retainer when folded. Ships with (one) 17-round magazine and (two) 23-round magazines. Carrying bag with additional storage and Velcro® straps. Made in U.S.A. WIDTH 2.5 LENGTH 36.25 HEIGHT 8 WEIGHT 80.42 CALIBER 9MM SIZE RIFLE CAPACITY 17,23 ACTION BLOWBACK BARREL LENGTH 16.25 GRIP POLYMER SIGHTS NONE OPTIC READY YES SAFETY THUMB SAFETY COLOR/FINISH BLACK STATE COMPLIANCE N/A THREADED BARREL YES BARREL MATERIAL 4140 CM FRAME ALUMINUM LASER NO PERFORMANCE CENTER NO NUMBER OF MAGAZINES 3 10LB TRIGGER NO STOCK FPC |
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Posted: 2/28/2023 9:41:05 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish: There’s a lot of weird going on with the stock, at least from that blurry angle. The whole gun (from that one view) looks like Keltec and Beretta had a joint project. And I had to wipe coffee off the keyboard and screen. |
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Posted: 2/28/2023 9:45:43 AM EDT
[#43]
 NEW Folding Carbine from Smith & Wesson: The FPC |
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Posted: 2/28/2023 9:56:46 AM EDT
[#44]
I like it. I don't like having to buy different magazines.
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Posted: 2/28/2023 10:00:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#45]
What won't S&W copy from KelTec?
The side folding bbl is better for optics mounting than the SUB-2000. Compared to the SUB, pluses and minuses: Plus for the S&W: 1) Probably better trigger out of the box; 2) LRBHO, though the right side release for sinisters might be a bit grabby; 3) Much better optic mounting out of the box; 4) M&P backstrap options carried over from the M&P line; 5) All optics & irons will mount on the forend; 6) Mag catch is reversible for sinisters; 7) Mr GunsnGear is correct, non-reciprocating charging handle. Minuses: 1) 3) S&W only runs M&P mags, unlike the SUB that will run S&W M&P & 59, SIG P226 & 320/250, Beretta 92, CZ 75, Canik, & Glock 17/22 & 19/23 mags; 4) Looks like a 5) Doesn't appear to be available in .40 S&W; 6) Slightly shorter iron sight radius possible than the SUB's folding rear & bbl mounted front; 7) No irons out of the box; 8) Doesn't appear adjustable for LOP, unlike the SUB. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2023 11:33:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: zaitcev]
[#46]
The reciprocating charging handle is super weird. It has its own track, just like AR charging handle. It is not screwed into the bolt like on Ruger or driven into the bolt like on KelTec(s). So it does not need to be reciprocating at all, the design is set up for it not to reciprocate. And yet, they made it so the bolt drags it to the rear (you can see it stay to the rear when ammunition runs out).
I may be thinking too much about it, but it appears one of these late changes we see once in a while, like Ruger 57 mag release. In that Ruger, mags are set up for a fully ambidextrous release, like on XD. In fact, the release even has the little tilting lever inside, like on other Ruger pistols like RAP. But it's not ambidextrous! Why? My pure guess is, they made it fully ambi, but because the gun was so damn thin, there was no space to have two good ramps back-to-back. They were too steep and it was too hard to release. So someone quickly re-planned it with just one ramp taking the space of two, but not as steep. The FPC was probably like that too. They set it up for a non-reciprocating handle first. But then something happened, so they added a plastic nub on the inside of the handle that engages the bolt in the opposite direction too. That is why you have to use a mallet to re-assemble FPC. I would really love to know just what that late-stage problem was. |
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Posted: 2/28/2023 12:52:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zaitcev: The reciprocating charging handle is super weird. It has its own track, just like AR charging handle. It is not screwed into the bolt like on Ruger or driven into the bolt like on KelTec(s). So it does not need to be reciprocating at all, the design is set up for it not to reciprocate. And yet, they made it so the bolt drags it to the rear (you can see it stay to the rear when ammunition runs out). I may be thinking too much about it, but it appears one of these late changes we see once in a while, like Ruger 57 mag release. In that Ruger, mags are set up for a fully ambidextrous release, like on XD. In fact, the release even has the little tilting lever inside, like on other Ruger pistols like RAP. But it's not ambidextrous! Why? My pure guess is, they made it fully ambi, but because the gun was so damn thin, there was no space to have two good ramps back-to-back. They were too steep and it was too hard to release. So someone quickly re-planned it with just one ramp taking the space of two, but not as steep. The FPC was probably like that too. They set it up for a non-reciprocating handle first. But then something happened, so they added a plastic nub on the inside of the handle that engages the bolt in the opposite direction too. That is why you have to use a mallet to re-assemble FPC. I would really love to know just what that late-stage problem was. I'm thinking they want to lock the bolt forward when it's carried, even though that's not necessary. The gun cannot fire when folded, the chamber is 180 degrees away from the magazine feed, bolt, & firing pin. The SUB-2000 can be carried w/ the bolt locked to the rear, flip it open & reverse HK slap the bolt shut, ready to go. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/28/2023 3:41:47 PM EDT
[#48]
There's no reciprocating charging handle; at least not on mine....
 Smith & Wesson M&P FPC: Folding Pistol Carbine Review ???? |
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Posted: 2/28/2023 4:17:59 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mrgunsngear: There's no reciprocating charging handle; at least not on mine....  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkmOXCE7ioAYet it goes to the rear on the last round fired? Semi-reciprocating? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2023 7:07:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: zaitcev]
[#50]
I watched Mrgunsngear review on Rumble and I made two observations:
1. There's only one instance of him running out of ammunition, and it's a bit hard to see what happens, because it immediately rotates the gun away, but looking under the right hand one can see the charging handle remaining in front. Also, there's some slow-motion footage of shooting and the handle definitely does not reciprocate. 2. Everyone else has no issue charging using either of the "wings". Grabbing with two finger salute is not required. I think the plastic nub on the handle of Mrgunsngear's unit broke. Perhaps it does not only attach the handle to the bolt to make it reciprocating, but also aligns the handle to prevent tilting. UPDATE 2023-03-03: I'm just back from an LGS and the charging handle is obviously non-reciprocating. I made sure by holding the bolt with my thumb through the ejection port and driving the charging handle forward until it locked in place. However, the detent holding it forward is not entirely reliable, so I would not be surprised if it flopped back and forth when shooting. |
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