Got a burr for an old school style shotgun and these two are on my short list. Won't rule out a Model 12 though.

User experience appreciated.

Update:

So, I now have two Western Field 30's(aka Stevens 520) in 12ga and am trying to lock down another in 20ga.. I have a Model 11 and a 1200FP on the way.

Am thinking about a SxS.

Am I sick?

M97.  Solid as hell.  Heavy, too.  Nothing that heavy should kick that hard.  Holds 5 in the magazine and one in the chamber. Lots of small (teeny/tiny) parts and springs so I you ever take it completely apart be sure to take lots of pictures as you do, so you can refer to them when it comes time to put it back together.

M12. Smooth.  Well balanced.  Hold 6 in the magazine and one in the chamber.   I like mine a lot.  Don't shoot it much, gave it to my youngest son.

Ithaca M37 (you didn't mention it, but it's another old John Browning design).  Light, smooth, well balanced.  I own more than one.  Most hold 4 in the magazine and one in the chamber.  They made 8 shot riot versions (1 in the chamber and 7 in the magazine.)  I'll let my kids have my Ithaca M37's when I'm headed for my dirt nap.  Never broke on.  Never seen one break (whole family owns them, used to hunt with them - only a couple of us left now).  Some of them are over 60 years old and still work just fine.  Some are only 30 to 40 years old and still work just fine.

Believe it or not, the M97 and M12 I own(ed) are newer made than some of the Ithaca M37's I own.

I keep reading that M97's marked 2 3/4" aren't actually sized for modern shells. True?

Most Model 12's and a M97 in my AO are well-worn and $400+. Is that the going rate now? Nicer ones are $600-800.

Thanks for the info.

Found a double hump locally for $250 but has some pitting on the receiver and barrel. Is it true they don't feed reliably if not held properly?

Honestly - find an auction (in person, not online) and wait until you find what you want- I've found nice model 12s for 300-400 bucks and nice projects for $120-175 (replaced some wood on a reblue - looks like a new gun now).  I've got to stop myself from buying parts guns that turn into $100 shooters though....  Parts shouldn't be an issue on M12s, but there are a couple of things in the smaller gauges that are getting rarer, like 20 gauge shell lifters.  But in all seriousness these shotguns were made for several lifetimes of use.

1897's tend to be closer to 500-600 if they are in good shape.
1897s are complex but durable, and most of the "wear" parts can be found.

I wouldn't lay out a ton of money on the 520's simply because the secondary market for parts is not as good, and there are fewer people who work on them.

Honestly buy what you want - not what's cheapest.  These things should never loose you money unless you do something unholy to them.

Something to think about with the 1897 - the carrier moves backward a considerable distance over the hammer and tang.



I have large hands and got snagged - bit a few times...  Several others who have shot mine had the same happen, so it is not uncommon.

Which is a problem because the Hammer is the Safety.  1/2 cock is safe, but you have to have your hands close to the hammer to cock it for firing which leads to carrier bite...

Also, the 1897 has a funky method of slide lock release - can't use it with the hammer at 1/2 cock (safety).  You have to fully cock it to use the slide release button.

And if you ever take it apart, you will curse the day you ever thought to do so...   Not easy to get it back together as it should be.

Decent Video of the "Quirks" of the 1897.



Winchester Model 12 is the best Vintage Shotgun in my book - Very Classic for a reason - simple, slick and last forever...

Other favorite is the Ithaca 37 (which was actually based on the model 17, (a Remington shotgun designed by J.M. Browning himself!) Ithaca waited until the patent ran out & copied it)

My .02 cents

BIGGER_HAMMER

I stumbled into one of my grail guns in Tulsa - 5 digit special order takedown 97.  Buffalo Bill Center sent me the factory letter - made in 1898.

model 12 nuff said

They call it a model 97 because there a 97 ways for it to fail . I've had 2 and don't regret selling them .
I would go model 12 FWIW

Mine from 1941

Attached File

Can't go wrong with any of the above.

I have all mentioned thus far and some others:

Stevens 520/620 = Great guns, can be made into inexpensive Trench clones and Takedown is handy.

Winchester 97 = my favorite - It can be topped off quick or manually loaded quickly dropping one at a time if needed.

Model 12 = well made and nice quality - Can't easily top off the magazine as easy as others - you have to push in the shell / carrier a little and not so quick to top of reload.

Remington model 10 = fastest to takedown in my opinion.  Not as durable as others, but mine has given me no trouble.

Remington model 11 (A5 copy) great gun slow to reload Mine is 100 years old an reliable!

Ithaca 37 - great gun, a little lighter and kicks hard but great otherwise.  Harder to find non-game scene engraved guns inexpensively.

Remngton 31 - another great gun.  no complaints - To me this model action looks like an 870 had a baby with a Mossberg 500.

Stevens 67 /77 series - a solid no frills steel receiver pump.  Not as classic as the others -but works.  Not as easy to takedown - Often variants are not a takedown gun

Never heard the M97's aren't made for modern 2&3/4" shells.  Mine was made in the 1950's (not long before they stopped making them).  Certainly the later ones handle standard/modern 2&3/4" shells just fine.

The M97's and M12's (the take down models anyway) break exactly in half and store/carry in a shorter space/case.  Most other pumps allow you to remove the barrel but the magazine tube stays on the receiver.

A long time ago, I would carry my M97 on some stakeouts.  We didn't want the public to know we were in the building/watching so I'd break my M97 down, tie a nylon string/cord (one end in the trigger guard and the other through the gap between the magazine tube and the barrel) and hang it over my shoulder under a raincoat/long coat and carry it into the building with me.  When I got where I was going (base of operations for the night) I'd pull the coat off, put the M97 together and load it up with 00 buckshot.  In a blacked out building, in the middle of the night, when you're searching floor to floor for people who shouldn't be there (but could be there trying to steal electronic equipment/computers) that 12 ga. is very comforting.  More than one time my partner (when I was working with one) would tell me how much better it made him feel to know I had that short barreled 12 ga. in my hands.

I've seen fairly nice M12's at gun shows for as little as $300.  Damned near bought that one.  I just don't need anymore shotguns I won't use much.  I have a nice Ithaca 5 shot and 8 shot 12 ga. that I don't shoot now.

While it's not a pump shotgun, I got an old Browning Auto 5 a few years back and I really like that old shotgun (another fine John Browning design).  I wish I'd run across one like that 40 years ago when I was bird hunting hard with the dogs.  I think I would have enjoyed it (M37 was my shot gun back then).  Not to replace the M37, but to alternate with it.  There are popular (for modding) copies of the Auto 5, too.  Remington made the M11 and somebody else (Savage??) made one, too.  Not sure about parts availability/commonality between the Auto 5 and it's copies, but the Auto 5 parts are available (if you ever need them.  All I did to mine (1934 production with a ton of use on it when I got it) was replace the springs and a couple butchered up looking screws (also replaced the old worn almost smooth stock/forend with synthetic pieces and removed the rust coating with oil and 0000 steel wool rubbing.)  Oh, put an extended magazine tube on it, too.  Holds 9 rounds of 00 buckshot now.

I have a model 12 that belonged to my grandfather and hunted with it a good bit when I was younger.

I have had two model 97s that I bought back in the day when I was into cowboy shooting.

The model 97s (to me anyway) have a certain coolness factor that beats out the model 12.

As they say around here, get both and see which you like better.

Thanks for the info everyone!

Regarding modern shells in older shotguns, I've read in more than one place that the crimp is different on modern shells than the shells in use when many of these older shotguns were designed.

As a result, the shell extends past the 2 3/4" chamber on some older guns causing a constriction and higher pressure. Supposedly the 2 3/4" chamber on modern shotguns is longer as a result.

IDK if this is true, thus the question.

Hard to beat the Remington model 11 if you want an old shotgun. They shoot fast. Very fast.

I like the Stevens single hump 520a.  The older double hump 520 never interested me.  I have a couple 620a's as well.

Originally I got into them because I like to tinker, wanted a take down, could never find a model 12 in the same price range as the Stevens.

Fun guns, originally designed by Browning. I stick to the lighter loads when shooting them.

520a



620a
Wanted a Riot gun clone, this was close enough.


Hanging out with some spares.

Update: Picked up a Western Field 30 aka Stevens 520 yesterday. Made a bid on a Remington Model 11.

Just finished my two Stevens 520 projects. Cleaned up my Dad's old Ranger marked riot gun. New barrel from Numrich  and stripped and Tru oiled she stocks. Second is my 150 dollar GB purchase. Super nice blue gun, stock missing huge chunk and mag tube and barrel dented. New stocks from Numrich,  chopped barrel to 20.5 inches. Barrel already had old adjustable choke on the end. Ordered from Sarco a model 97 repop handguard/bayonet lug. Fixed the mag tube. Triple K 1907 sling. Shot it Sunday at the trap range!

Bump.

It was a three piece affair.  The swivel itself isn't listed anymore but it's just a repro swivel for a 1903.  The swivel isn't a perfect fit as is but a little squeezing made it better.

Barrel band

Band screw

Swivel  Looks the same as the one I used but different part number.

1903 rear ones work as well on the buttstock, but you have to inlet them into the stock or cut the stocks like the trench guns due to the width of the swivel base.

pic off the net.