Euro optic is tempting me....

Anyone have any experience with one? What are your thoughts? Worth the coin?

What does it do well, what does it struggle with? Any info is appreciated, even if it's just linking to a good review somewhere.

Thanks!

https://youtu.be/QY8mN1YKf94

The only negatives that I can think of are the weight and the fact that you would still need an illuminator on the darkest of nights. With that said, I was still able to see cows at 400 yards without an illuminator in full cloud cover, no moon, no stars, just pitch black conditions. These units really are a damn good deal.

The guy in that youtube video pretty much hits all the main points.  I love mine, it has a great image and zero detectable POI shift (which matches the data sheet provided).  I can see much further than I can reasonably shoot at night with the 30 and if you need a brighter image, use an illuminator.  I'm limited to about 250 yd until we can get out to one of our farms for safe 600+ yd shooting.  At ~200 yd it feels like I am cheating, which I sort of am I guess.  The weight is the biggest thing I was concerned about before buying, but the reality is that these are really intended to be used on rifles fired from a supported position.  People aren't kidding when they say you could pound nails or pummel someone with one of these either, they are tanks.  I do not regret my purchase.

+1 on it being a hugely capable clip-on. I got three of them from EuroOptic actually for me and a few buddies and was very satisfied with the quality we received (they come with tube/optic specs from when they're checked for alignment and were perfect).

It lives most of the time on a mk12 clone and you can see some more photos of the unit from Nick's recent article up on TFB: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/04/11/knights-armament-pvs30/

I'd echo the necessity of having an IR illuminator of some sort. Not only for adding light to the image when it's super dark, but also to toggle the illuminator on and off to punch through brush/trees for a different perspective and to make eyes glow if you're hunting game. The MAWL-C1+ worked great at distance but doesn't tuck in under the body of the PVS-30, so you have to run it on one side. Same with a DBAL or PEQ-2 - just have to rock them on one side. Civi-legal lasers other than the MAWL really aren't a good idea (too weak) unless it's a higher powered focused LED like the big DBALs.

Damn, that's impressive. I'd run a laser/lum on anything I run it on. So that's not too much of an issue, but 400 without is damn nice. What scope you running behind yours?

Hell yeah. I get my fair use out of my bipods and hog saddle. I wouldn't be rucking with this anywhere.

Huge fan of your photography. Thanks for weighing in. That TFB was eye opening, to say the least. As you might notice on my avatar, it seems like I'm in good company on the host rifle. A bummer the MAWL won't fit under it, though. Not a total dealbreaker. I imagine you run out of rail, or is it that low pro? That being said, I'd imagine you're just running the MAWL as an illuminator, or are you using the aiming laser through the scope, as well?

Other than that; how it run on the 2.5-10x24? Do you prefer it behind that compared to something with more power/bigger obj? Looks silly on that 5-25 ATACR I saw one on.

Thanks again!

Great thread as I have been thinking of one of these too.  I have a couple of questions I’d like to add.

Can these be damaged like the PVS14 in daytime or if it gets too bright?

What sort of scope power range is appropriate to use with one of these?  Also at what power does it become unusable?  FFP or SFP make a difference?

Lastly you just put your scope in 1.5 inch rings and it lines right up?  What happens if they are slightly lower?

Thanks.

Thanks for the kind words - always have a good time messing around in the dark with this stuff. Mine's in front of the 2.5-10x32 on the mk12, so it's a little bigger objective than most of the clones. The -30 runs beautifully at all zoom settings of that scope but does make eye relief/box a little tighter - you have to make sure your head is in the right spot. I should really throw it in front of a 5-20 or similar to check out where the resolution falls off but I'm assuming around 14-15x you'd be getting big enough grain on the tube where you'd have diminishing returns (unless you were milling something pretty big and it was more helpful on your reticle to zoom in more to get a refined measurement).

I would assume yes, it's a very similar NV tube in them so normal precautions should be taken to make sure it doesn't get left on in the daytime. When you turn it on with the adjustment knob, it immediately goes to its highest gain setting, then you continue to twist to turn it down to minimum. I keep the front rubber cap on when I turn on the unit, crank the knob all the way down, then slide the cap up. I'm sure the tube would be fine, but I just got it and am still a little touchy with it ;) It's an autogated L3 tube though, so the power supply would keep up and dial things down if it got too bright.

In the 10-15x range is the commonly advertised top end before grain becomes an issue. Maybe I'll take a little video clip showing what the rear of the unit looks like to the naked eye and how it's a pretty small image that your scope is zooming in on. When back at 2.5x in my Nightforce you kinda feel like you're looking through a tube, whereas bumping it up to 3-5x it looks a lot more natural. For SFP/FFP, the scope would behave just like in the daytime. You'd have to zoom a SFP all the way in to get accurate mil-measurements and if it was a higher-powered scope, you might get a grainy image. So for something above 12x or so, I'd probably steer you towards FFP to make sure you could range things at the lower zoom levels.

The really cool thing about these clip on NV devices is that they have optics inside them that maintain the straight path of the light coming through them. You could have a buddy hand hold the -30 in front of your scope and it'd still maintain zero. It's optimal to have the day scope lined up directly behind it and mostly parallel, but if for example you have high or low rings and it's not vertically aligned perfectly, it will not affect the zero. Your day scope just needs to be able to see some of the green image in the -30. They use something KAC calls an Adjustable Wedge Prism (or a Risley prism pair) to zero the units at the factory so they're within the 0.5MOA spec for POI shift - here's their patent, with some neat sketches showing all the optical elements in a unit: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20060109544

There's also the broader clip-on NV patent from L-3 that makes for some good reading about the optics as well - https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080043322A1/en

I think it's a huge advantage over something like a SIMRAD that requires precise mounting. Small variations in pic rail alignment or forward NV mounts on bolt guns become a non-issue.

KAC also have the new battery housings patented - from what I heard that's why these refurb units have been hitting the commercial market (gov clients wanted flexibility of using AA or CR123 in the units and the refurbs are the dual-AA housings) - https://patents.google.com/patent/US7576515B2/en?assignee=Knight+s+Armament+Co

Edit - on the MAWL clearance. The -30 is just really low - I even have to remove the KAC front sight to get it to mount or else it’ll interfere with the big focus adjustment knob.

Damn. Coming through and dropping patent knowledge!

That photo behind the optic would be great. I'd love to see how small the image is, as well as how grainy it looks on a 20 or 25 power. I know that's not what it's designed for, but it'd be nice to see 

Curious how much better it handles the x32. I have both, and the x32 eye box is notably bigger. I prefer the x24 just for the size, but it's tight as is. If the -30 is making the eyebox even tighter.....

Thanks for all the info!

Excellent info thank you sir.

"That photo behind the optic would be great. I'd love to see how small the image is, as well as how grainy it looks on a 20 or 25 power. I know that's not what it's designed for, but it'd be nice to see"

Check out the YouTube video from above. 2:46 mark is where the zoom to 25x happens. Good glass will improve image quality. Honestly, after 18x, the image tends to go downhill pretty quick, but still usable at 25x.

A better question is what do you want to do with it?

To get the most out of it you'll need great optics, an illuminator or better yet - a real laser / illuminator unit.

First night out was 500 - felt like cheating. Second night, I was slightly under 1 MOA at 800 with a .300WM with light snow falling and no moon / heavy clouds (shot at 8x). I look forward to a full moon / cloudless night.

They work.

I have been running a PVS30 with the INTENS tube for about 18 months now, great system, AA vs CR123 battery option is awesome. No noticeable zero shift when installed or removed. The biggest issue that I have with it is spotting misses and reading wind with it. But making hits out to 600-700M is 100% doable under most all conditions.

When using an illuminator with the 30, there is a noticeable blooming of the laser/LED in the expelled gasses that I find annoying, more so with LED based illumination. Because of this most of the time I don't use an illuminator. I have run my 30 on a standard 16-18" AR, 16 and 20" MWS in 308 and on my 338LM bolt gun with great results.

Quality day optics help a ton when using CNVD. Using mid grade glass makes the image noticeably more dark than when using higher end glass. Even then I will rarely use more than 10X when shooting at night. 15X is totally usable in all lighting conditions. Over 18-20X the image becomes dark and grainy even with good glass.

In short, I'm very happy with my 30, I would buy one again.
For a lighter AR I think that I would look more at a UNS-A3 as they weigh half of what a 30 weighs.

Just did a couple little video clips last night to give you a better idea of what it looks like when it's taken off of the rifle - check at the end of the clip here for that. Obviously tough to capture how clear the image is when holding a camera behind a scope, but yeah... the -30s are really nice. Wish you could find one locally to take a look through because it's impossible to convey the clarity with something like this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdo2cEnlGpk

That video is pretty awesome. I’ve been thinking about getting a PVS-30 myself. From what everybody has been saying here I think it’s a done deal.

Saved this on IG to get to it later once I get home from work. Checking it now. Thanks for posting it here. Made it easier for me to find.

A couple photos through a PVS 30 on a MK4 Spotter

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Mmmmm. What kinda ranges are we look at in those 2?

The mountains are about 20 miles out.

The hay bale is about 200 yards with the field above it being about 800 yards.

Great pictures! What's the mag x on the hay bale? At what magnification are you maxed out - lpm vs mag ?

I have no idea the mag in that picture but based on reticle size I would guess 12-14.

Max magnification is a product of the ambient condition on a given night. Some real dark nights you want the spotter or scope to go lower than it can, on a perfect full moon you can almost max an optic out.