User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 1:23:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Try 23.5 grains of Varget
or 24.0 grains of RE-15. Try different primers if you have any. CCI-450, CCI-BR4's, Remington 7.5's, Federal AR Match or Russian 5.56m or 223m have all switched places being the best depending on which rifle I fired them through. You really need a 1/8 or 1/7 twist to insure stability with 75/77 grain bullets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 2:18:52 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Happy Saturday evening folks. I have about 2500 75 grain Hornday BTHP's that I got back in the salad days. After several tries loading Varget, 748 and reloader 15 I have not found a load that shot better than 2" at 100 yards. Has anyone had better luck with these bullets? If so what are you using? 2 inches in what? Same gun? Multiple guns? Hornady offerings can always be finicky. Do a search. Some of them just don't like certain Chambers. Some people get .5 moa others get 3 moa. I mean if varget can't get a good group nothing else will. Except maybe XBR. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 2:59:46 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: After several tries loading Varget, 748 and reloader 15 I have not found a load that shot better than 2" at 100 yards. Has anyone had better luck with these bullets? If so what are you using? I always get 3/4 MOA or better with them when testing at 200 yards. They work in all my rifles. The barrels are 1/8" twist with a Wylde chambers. RECIPE - 23.5 gr of TAC Winchester brass Winchester small rifle primers Seat to 2.235 - 2.245" OAL No crimp I also use that recipe except with 24.0 gr of VARGET. VARGET is slightly more accurate but the TAC meters so well it seduces me into using it. TAC is also less expensive and is usually readily available. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 3:10:00 AM EDT
[#4]
I've had good luck with them but something seems really off if you are getting 2" groups.
My experience is they don't shoot quite as good as a 77 SMK but pretty close. Varget hasn't always performed well for me but TAC, H335, and some surplus powders have worked with this bullet, even in a 1:9 twist Remington bolt action. I've shot 2" groups at 300 yards with them in that gun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 8:46:55 AM EDT
[#5]
24.0gr Varget.
23.5gr H4895. 25.0gr CFE223. You might go a half grain more with caution and a milder magnum primer like CCI 450 and Rem 7.5. Start at 2.250" +/- 0.007 COAL. If those aren't satisfactory, go to 2.230". This gun has proven the sub 2 MOA extreme spread capability with prior bullets, correct? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 8:51:23 AM EDT
[#6]
I haven't used the 75 Hornady in a while, but, as I recall, it did best with H4895, followed closely by TAC. I never found this bullet to shoot quite as accurately as the Sierra 69 MK or Sierra 65 GK, but they shoot pretty well and are notably cheaper than the Sierras.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 10:09:10 AM EDT
[#7]
24gr of Varget
23.8gr 8208 XBR 21.9gr AR Comp All .5 MOA |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 11:04:52 AM EDT
[#8]
The fault might be the gun, and that should not be a surprise.
Shooting in the wind, bench technique, all if that are additional factors. The bullets you have might not be stellar. The 68 grain HPBT has a notorious reputation for inconsistent accuracy from box to box. I stopped buying them long ago because accuracy was not predictable. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 11:11:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Thanks for the help folks.
My 2" results are from 2 different rifles. An 18" WOA SPR and a 20" BCM both stainless barrels, Lake City 2012 brass and CCI 41's. I don't crimp rifle ammo. Both if these are sub MOA with 69g SMK's and 26 grains of Varget. Thanks for the help gents. I will load up some more and report back. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 12:05:10 PM EDT
[#10]
I've found that Ramshot TAC powder works very well with Hornaday's bullets in my RRA, Wylde Chambered, 1:9 A-4 AR using a few 1/10ths grain under max charge in my 5.56 X 45 MM NATO level loads (where my rifle's accuracy node is). Surprisingly, my rifle likes Hornady and TAC better than Sierra and Varget. Go figure. Depending upon what type chamber you have (.223, NATO, or Wylde) here is the latest information from Ramshot.
From Western Powder's Reloading Manual, Edition 7.0, pages 46, 47: 223 REMINGTON: 55,000 PSI -- STANDARD SAAMI COMMERCIAL SPECIFICATIONS (For .223 Chambered Rifles) Grn . Bullet Type, Start Load, Start Velocity, Max Load, Max Velocity, Max Pres., COAL, Compressed 75 - HDY BTHP-M-----21.7--------2,582-----------24.1--------2,820--------54,337---2.260"--------N 5.56 X 45MM NATO: 62,350 PSI -- CIP COMMERCIAL AND NATO/MIL SPECIFICATION (For NATO and Wylde Chambered Rifles) Grn . Bullet Type, Start Load, Start Velocity, Max Load, Max Velocity, Max Pres., COAL, Compressed 75 - HDY BTHP-M-----23.2--------2,738-----------25.8--------2,994--------62,145---2.260"---------C |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 1:01:33 PM EDT
[#11]
COSteve, is that load data for TAC? Your post doesn't says only "Western" and "Ramshot". Also, what barrel length did they use to get that data?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 5:31:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Yes, that data is for TAC powder as I started my thread saying TAC worked well for me so I assumed it was obvious.
For the .223 data they list: Barrel: 24" Twist: 1-12" Primer: WIN WSR Bullet Diameter: 0.224" Case: WIN Max Case Length: 1.760" Trim Length: 1.750" For the 5.56 data they list: Barrel: 24" Twist: 1-7" Primer: WIN WSR Bullet Diameter: 0.224" Case: WIN Max Case Length: 1.760" Trim Length: 1.750" |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 6:51:07 PM EDT
[#13]
In my 1-8 match rifles I get sub MOA with Win brass, Tula primers and 23.5 -24.0 grains of Varget. Those are some good bullets, wish I had some.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 7:09:41 PM EDT
[#14]
I could never get the 75gr hornadys to shoot in my 223's though they liked 8208 xbr (and RE-15 iirc) with the 77's. Never had any luck with Tac or CFE-223 with any 75-77gr bullets
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 7:52:50 PM EDT
[#15]
With those barrels, you should get them to work.
My best load, a tad warm, was 24.2gr Varget with 75gr Hornady. Wasn’t over pressured through an S.C. summer. 23.8gr also shot well I’ve got an RE15 load but have used Varget more recently |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 7:56:38 PM EDT
[#16]
If I was loading Hornady bullets, first place I would look for data is Hornady 10 manual.
Hodgdon's site second. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 10:32:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Something is wrong with your rifles or your shooting technique.
24 gr either Varget , RL15, 4895 with a Hornady 75 will do that or less at 200yds in my service rifles. 24 gr Varget/RL 15, LC case, 7 1/2 or Tula run about 2660 MV. 4895 pushes 2720. I run 2.250 OAL. 748.... to temp sensitive. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2020 11:20:30 PM EDT
[#18]
I got it down to 1.3” or so at 100yd using 22gr of H322, and Winchester small rifle primer. OAL of 2.25”. That was using a 1:7 18” Rainier Arms barrel. I’m not that good of a shot so I’m sure a better shooter could do, well, better.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/29/2020 6:55:39 AM EDT
[#19]
Most consistent load for me is 24.1g TAC and CCI 41's. I'm shooting the 75s with cannelure so I do a light crimp.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/29/2020 5:53:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I got it down to 1.3” or so at 100yd using 22gr of H322, and Winchester small rifle primer. OAL of 2.25”. That was using a 1:7 18” Rainier Arms barrel. I’m not that good of a shot so I’m sure a better shooter could do, well, better. Which Rainier Barrel? Most of theirs are either 1:8 for their non Ultramatch rifles or 1:7.5 in the Ultramatch. What are the other rifle specs? You may be trying to squeeze sub MOA out of a 1 MOA rifle on top of being a 1.5 MOA shooter. Not meant as an insult to you, just meaning that you might be at the edge of what you and the platform can do together |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2020 3:51:59 PM EDT
[#21]
I found a good grouping with 24g of Varget as many others have mentioned. Still working on a CFE223 load as well. I'm also going to try a load with Shooters World precision powder and see if I can find something in the 24-24.2 range.
My Varget load was right at an inch for 10 rounds at 100 yards. CFE223 had a good five shot group, then opened up for the last five (although I'm sure that is mostly on the shooter...) so I plan to double check that load again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2020 9:52:23 PM EDT
[#22]
75 gr over 24 grains of varget loaded at 2.250 coal is a sub moa round from rifle.
Bounce around a little. Load up from 23, . 23.5 , 24gr of varget see if the lower charges improve accuracy. Also, are you crimping? Add A crimp, if crimpong try a little more of less crimp. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2020 11:40:52 PM EDT
[#23]
I had 500 of those bullets given to me for free. Went with 25.5 CFE223 with Winchester primer. No slouch but no pressure signs. Hornady 556 data has a max of 26.5gr if my memory serves me right. Didn’t go past 25.5. Got mediocre accuracy but this particular rifle isn’t the most accurate.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2020 10:02:33 AM EDT
[#24]
Barrel twist is the most important variable. Ive tried to get the Hornady amax 75 grns to shoot well and tried different powers and I like Vhit-n140 for my target 223 stuff so that might work but the oal on the 75 grn bullets even shooting them one at a time because of the length I didn't get great results for accuracy. I loaded mine and they would not fit in a magazine played around a lot and was never excited by the accuracy so I don't buy them anymore, but good luck.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2020 12:49:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Barrel twist is the most important variable. Ive tried to get the Hornady amax 75 grns to shoot well and tried different powers and I like Vhit-n140 for my target 223 stuff so that might work but the oal on the 75 grn bullets even shooting them one at a time because of the length I didn't get great results for accuracy. I loaded mine and they would not fit in a magazine played around a lot and was never excited by the accuracy so I don't buy them anymore, but good luck. The AMAX is a very different bullet than the HPBT-M. I've never used the AMAX but have read many accounts of them being finicky about seating depth. Many had to jam them into the lands to get anything you might call accuracy. The 75 gr HPBT-M bullet isn't like that, at all. It is a very tolerant bullet. It is capable of great accuracy. My groups ranged from 0.25 MOA to 1.0 MOA during my 200 yard ladder testing. Having said that, like @cmcque says above, the bullet will never perform better than the inaccuracies caused by the rifle and shooter (and wind). |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/4/2020 9:00:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Hello Folks,
Ok so I had time today and loaded up some of these 75g. Horndays with Varget and 8208, CCI41 and Lake City brass 2013 once fired. These were fired out of my 18" WOA at 100 yards. Results are less than impressive. Only 1 promising group out of the bunch which I will re-run. The larger left target is using 26 grains of Varget under a 69g. SMK. It usually shoots better but this was the last group of the day and I rushed it. The large target with 10 shots os using Bobs Bullet 55g. FMJ and 25g. 335. Any ideas?   |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/4/2020 9:01:17 PM EDT
[#27]
One more I forgot
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/4/2020 11:17:02 PM EDT
[#28]
I only use 24.5 grains of Varget with 69 grain SMK's. It's very accurate and reliable out to 300 yards.
Sierra's manual lists 25.3 grains as maximum which placed you almost one (1) whole grain over the top. 55 grain FMJ's usually stick for accuracy, the only exception being Hornady's FMJ's. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/5/2020 1:31:27 AM EDT
[#29]
OP, show us some groups that prove you and your rifle are capable of sub-MOA accuracy over a large sample of shots. Use any ammo you'd like.
Now, I do not intend this as an offense to you and your shooting, its just that your ammo will not do better than the level at which you and your rifle are capable. If we know for a fact that you and your rifle can do it, we will be better able to assist you. I'm saying all that because I shoot smaller groups than that at 200 yards using this bullet. No, I am not a good shooter. No, I am not bragging. I am just "benchmarking" your results. Were you using optics or irons? Benched or bipod/rest or from position? Did you use a free-floated sling? What was the wind like? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/5/2020 12:10:23 PM EDT
[#30]
 Thanks for the advise folks. I am not a bench shooter, more of a pistol guy. Pictures are not my thing either but I did find one using this bullet a couple years ago. I completely forgot about this picture until I looked. The Botton right group was the 69g. SMK load that seems to shoot well in everything. Everything shown is with a 10x scope. Sorry I don't have anything else to show you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/5/2020 1:28:06 PM EDT
[#31]
24.3gr Varget seems the best among your small samples.
ETA: 23.7 isn't bad either. I bet 24 is better than this sample shows, so between powder throw variation and weather, that node has a wider margin up and down. Other guys have had success with shortening the COAL 10 or 20 thou, so might try that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/5/2020 2:49:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which Rainier Barrel? Most of theirs are either 1:8 for their non Ultramatch rifles or 1:7.5 in the Ultramatch. What are the other rifle specs? You may be trying to squeeze sub MOA out of a 1 MOA rifle on top of being a 1.5 MOA shooter. Not meant as an insult to you, just meaning that you might be at the edge of what you and the platform can do together Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I got it down to 1.3” or so at 100yd using 22gr of H322, and Winchester small rifle primer. OAL of 2.25”. That was using a 1:7 18” Rainier Arms barrel. I’m not that good of a shot so I’m sure a better shooter could do, well, better. Which Rainier Barrel? Most of theirs are either 1:8 for their non Ultramatch rifles or 1:7.5 in the Ultramatch. What are the other rifle specs? You may be trying to squeeze sub MOA out of a 1 MOA rifle on top of being a 1.5 MOA shooter. Not meant as an insult to you, just meaning that you might be at the edge of what you and the platform can do together @11C3XCIB No insult taken at all. It’s plenty accurate for me. I was pleasantly surprised at my results. It’s a Rainier Arms Mountain Series CHF. It was part of a barreled upper they sold a few years ago on sale. I put in a DD bcg and have a Larue MBT trigger installed. Also using a Leupold Mark AR Mod 1 scope. Now not all my groups that day with that load got down to that spread, but the rest weren’t 5”or 6” or anything like that. Most of the strings I shot (5 at a time - 30 in all) were around the 2”-3” range. Maybe it was just my day that day? I just figured that if I got a group like that a better shooter could and do it more consistently. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/5/2020 4:42:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Happy Saturday evening folks. I have about 2500 75 grain Hornday BTHP's that I got back in the salad days. After several tries loading Varget, 748 and reloader 15 I have not found a load that shot better than 2" at 100 yards. Has anyone had better luck with these bullets? If so what are you using? I will have to check. I think I have a bag of 100 or maybe even 500 of the Hornady 75 grainers. If they are the exact same as yours I will load them...most likely using H335. I like H335 because it meters like water through my Dillon powder measures. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/5/2020 4:46:00 PM EDT
[#34]
23.5gr Varget is my go to for 75gr Hornady and 77gr SMK.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
