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Link Posted: 6/25/2018 8:20:44 AM EDT
[#1]
Well, don't really have a dog in this fight, although I do buy stuff from TNVC on occasion.  So as a customer, I would say TNVC has been a good vendor to someone who just wants to get a decent level of NV kit.  I would also say that Augee knows his shit and has been a solid contributor to this forum.  Ditto for Vic, and Sam.  DTS has also made some contributions along the way, on the more technical side of things.

What I see here are several other factors.  First and maybe foremost, I see a clash of personalities or maybe egos, when guys talk on line instead of face-to-face.  So the "fog of the internet" comes into play.  Secondly, I see a little immaturity here, as guys are perhaps looking for some kind of recognition or affirmation from their posts, and when they are "disrespected", lash out with diatribes that blame the other guy for everything up to global warming.  And then you have the hangers-on who goad their favorite into more arguments, either to be included with the event, or for entertainment value.  And lastly, I see competing businesses, which are trying to sell you something, which perhaps clouds the "data stream" for other reasons.  Some are not below using "trolls" to goad their competition into saying inappropriate things.  It's the internet.

In this particular case.  You have a young fella, who may be talented in doing technical work, but kinda lacking in social skills.  I think he seeks recognition for his talents, but is clumsy in doing so.  He lashes out when folks don't recognize his him, and it kinda makes him look like a dick.  I think he is very good at what he does, and has some very innovative ideas about esoteric shit, like re-potting tubes and what-not, but really over-reacts when he doesn't get the respect he feels he deserves.  He is involved in the highly technical, and yes, highly skilled aspects of building and re-building these things.  But is probably pretty ignorant about business and marketing.

Then you have an established business that is trying to sell you these things.  They do a pretty good job at it, and are very good about taking the time to explain things to you so you can make an informed purchase.  But for various reasons, someone might but butt-hurt at them about something or another, and takes some shots at them on line.  Being only human, sometimes they get fed up and fire back.  And here is where I think we need to separate what might be legitimate concerns from just emotional rants, or competitor trolling.  Even though there might be a grain of truth in there somewhere, most criticism of TNVC has been over-blown by the guy delivering it, for whatever reason.

Then you have the dog-pile.  Competitors who fan the flames to hurt their competition.  Me-too's that want in on the action.  And friends on both sides that wade into the fray.  Oy veh.

Back to the OP, I would only say that for the average bear wanting to get into NV, you really don't need all the latest and greatest, the esoteric specs that guys quibble over here; all you really need is a good vendor to guide you through the process and match your particular needs with some decent hardware.  And, IMHO, TNVC does a pretty good job at that.  Especially so since Augee joined the crew.  The rest of this could and should be resolved with a good "Smoker" at the SHOT Show, with 16 oz gloves.  
Link Posted: 6/25/2018 3:56:51 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm more into dispelling the goddamn buszword bullshit industry. The whole fucking reason people don't get into the NVG game is the idea they need a warranty, they need high speed shit they don't understand and cost.

You see this here due to the "new guy what should I get" threads goddamn near constantly because no one wants to boil this shit down to the simple truths. I swear to god this could be a huge resource on the net if this particular forum was managed properly and posters given threads to stay updated.

Try to Google which tube comes in an armasight eagle and in what form factor. Try to google broken ribbon inside the housing and how to repair without fucking it up worse (protip: you don't fucking file into the ribbon to expose the leads) Try to Google how to build certain gucci pods and why they didnt just put a fucking interface in for a fucking ribbon (because they are dumb as fuck and hate america). Try to ask Google why Nivisys sells a mum housing for $1.1k when they cost $<280 wholesale. Try to ask why the fuck people pay $300 for milspec lenses that have coatings that fuck up the light transmissions and dim tubes (milspec protection? Lol, just let my tubes b free) and why not use that same dimming effect but make it useful by increasing fov like armasight has? At least FLiR aren't  bunch of fuck bois like L3. Fuck you L3 suck a dick, you suck and your power supply design is stupid. Try to Google getting  a new ribbon or how to make one (all bad info, I'm the only one with a design that is simple and stupid effective) and prepare to pay, or why people send shit in for a purge that will delaminate since the housings are all borderline garbage. Also, try to Google why RQE hasn't resonded to my email yet because I really will succ for a bridge.

Armasight has the best dual tube increased fov setup on the market. Why is it that people still go for shitty systems, over priced, under designed (you know who you are, you expoxied the board inside the housing and it will fail but who gives a fuck since no one knows how to build them except like four people) just because somewhere it looked cool and had hype. That's gaf.

No more hype. Demystify this shit and people will flock to it. So what if you use shitty repots or russian glass tubes (they are so fuckin cool). Just be honest.

I'll even start:

Dark room tests of this vs this is stupid as fuck and if you base your purchase on it you're fooling yourself.  You're not in a warzone. Use IR.
Link Posted: 6/25/2018 6:24:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 6/25/2018 7:33:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This thread was funny enough before NSF got in here, now it's absolutely hillarious!
View Quote
It's all good. I only hate L3 and Honeywell. Everyone else is cool af.
Link Posted: 6/27/2018 7:42:30 AM EDT
[#5]
I am seeing a common thread here, among the "young turks" who are railing against established businesses.  I will give you my take on things, for your consideration.

Forty years ago I too sat in your position.  I had some pretty good ideas; I was pretty good at making some things; and I thought the establishment was fucking stupid for not recognizing my brilliance.  What I have come to understand:

1) Just because you are really smart, doesn't mean you will be successful.  If you are so fucking irritating no one can work with you, it's extremely difficult for your light to shine.  If you don't know dick about business and marketing on your own, you will probably lose your ass, while someone else steals your idea and makes millions off of it.

2) A really good idea/design doesn't get to market all by itself.  Really good ideas are just that, until they go through a whole business process to get it to the consumer.  It's easy to sit in your garage or work room and say this shit is so easy, but try to scale it up for real production and see what happens.

3) Throwing rocks at people to get their attention usually doesn't work very well.  Telling everyone how stupid they are and how brilliant you are will usually just piss everyone off and end up with you as that old man at the bar telling everyone how you coulda had a shot at the title.  Really.  How far do you think you will get telling the industry they're a bunch of retards and you have all the answers.

4) For every person that actually makes it big in their industry, there are probably thousands who had the same ideas, hopes, and dreams, and never made it to the big time.  Lots of them were actually very talented but for various reasons, it didn't work out.  Now you guys may be the next big movers and shakers in the industry.  If so, feel free to frame this and display on the wall of your corner office, overlooking something scenic.  But if not, then consider dialing down the rhetoric, accept that people may be too busy to talk with you, or recognize your brilliance.  You may have to work your way up in the industry instead of starting on top.

Now I say this shit as much to myself as I do to any of you young guys.  This is my experience.  It may not be yours.  But I got a feeling until human nature changes, a lot of this stuff will stand true.  Businesses may not be perfect, in fact, some may seem to be downright dickheads, but until you have tried to run your own, you may not be fully aware of what of just what's involved in the entire process.  It's easy to stand on the outside and tell someone how fucked up they are; it's a lot harder to jump in there yourself and make it happen.  FWIW.
Link Posted: 6/28/2018 4:05:34 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm here because when I was new to NVG it was all buzzwords, hypes and bullshit. I'm here to save people thousands of dollars in stupid ribbons, bad designs and misguided advice.

This forum has some of the best people out there doing it up their way and everyone brings something to the table. Who gives a fuck about anything else?
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