Technically an AR platform and already posted in that forum but figured people here would be interested as well.

-Roller delayed
-Works with existing 9mm or Standard AR lowers (no official compatibility list yet)
-No buffer tube
-LRBHO
-Side charging handle
-tri lug

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/01/07/angstadt-unveils-mdp-9/

The glock mag angle is not doing it for me.

I imagine it’ll get a lot of complaints like that

I’m hoping it’ll work with the Endomags on a standard lower.

Interesting and not a budget buy by any means.

Thanks for posting.

Price is steep but that thing has a lot of promise IMO. Wait and see how they turn out?

Uses Glock magazines? Yeah, that's a no from me.

Also that price is a no from me.

Glock mags don't look great but it's hard to argue with their reliability and cost effectiveness. I've wanted this type setup for years after growing tired of tinkering with a 9mm AR. I'm certainly in the "wait and see" camp, especially as a new SP5 owner.

Yeah i don’t get all the hate for Glock mags in a PCC. Every other pcc design you got complaints of durability, availability, price, lack of BHO, or a combination of two or more of those. The Glock mag solves all of those despite how they “look” in the gun. I suppose if there was a next best option it would likely be scorpion mags since there’s now a lot of options and great availability for those. Hell, if PSA gets that scorpion mag lower out and it works with the Angstadt MDP-9 upper, that would be an awesome setup.

I guess I’m just a utilitarian at heart. I like shooting my guns more than looking at them lol. I’m just  wondering why it’s taken so long to get a roller delayed system in the 9mm AR platform.

Id like to see the bolt on it

At that price point I am either doing an MP5 or waiting for Striborg A3 to finally pass the ATF approval process.

I was actually pretty interested until I saw the price. For that price you can buy an MP5 clone, sbr it, and throw on a red dot.

I want double stack and double feed magazines for a PCC. Not single feed magazines. YMMV.

This. The price is absurd for what they are asking for the MDP-9. If I want an AR platform, I am going CMMG RDB with PMAG magazine conversions.

+1, Glock mag master race.

Cross compatible with multiple platforms, the mags are extremely durable and reliable, and they are the most widely distributed and available 9x19 polymer highcap in the US.

The argument against basically boils down to 'looks' and 'muh double feed.'

Cool, love the innovative design, but paid less for my HK SP5.

The price is atrocious. If I'm paying that much for a roller delayed PCC, I might as well buy the H&K SP series. At least that has a large surplus of parts support.

You have to be a real fag to poo on the best mag available because you don't like how the angle of insertion looks

A) This

B) Glock mags suck.... kind of.... and here's why:

They're single-feed. Yes, that means there's a single path to the chamber, which is nice, BUT: The round has to fully be in position via the follower to be grabbed by the BCG and it now has the full height of a round to travel. In a colt/staggered feed you have less than half of that to travel, so the next round is ready MUCH faster allowing for cycle time variability. Gets to be a bigger deal in the 33rd sticks especially when adding extensions to that, etc.

That said, Glock mags are easy to load on a closed bolt, so there's that.

And I have PCC's w/ Colt, HK, Lancer/MPX, and Glock mags for context.

Man you guys love to manufacture stupid theories. Is your bolt gonna outrun the mag in a semi?  Not even a full auto G18 can do that.

In my anecdotal experience, I've had more mag problems with my double feed variety guns (HK Clones, CZ, B&T). Only Glock mag issues on PCC's I've experienced are with aftermarket Glock mags. Hell, the Glock mag lower fixed my feeding issues on my B&T GHM9 because the factory mags either cracked or weren't feeding high enough causing a jam. So I just haven't been convinced that double feed is better in PCC's based on my own personal experience in my various PCC's. Perhaps in theory they are indeed better, but in actual usage I haven't found that to be the case. Not saying the Glock mags are better per se, but I can't see any argument against them when they clearly work fine in PCC's designed for them.

I will say double feed is certainly easier to load. The ETS rifle loader with HK, CZ, and B&T mags is A+

I mean its angstadt so I knew it would be expensive but man that's a lot of money. I think they priced this before they know the SP5 was coming because at that price I think Im with others and if it were me Id probably go with the SP5. That said the fact that it takes Glock mags, the fact that they did away with the buffer tube and its compatible, in theory anyway, with all AR lower parts definitely makes it an intriguing option. If it were about a thousand dollars cheaper I think I would seriously consider one. Man the price really sucks because aside from that I love this thing.

Its not about outrunning the gun and the G18 is designed for that mag and has a feed ramp on the barrel to ensure good feeding. With a PCC I don't believe there is a feed ramp so the only thing that is getting the round in the chamber is the mag and you need proper cartridge angle and height to do that. Obviously people have managed to make this a reliable setup but it's actually pretty difficult getting all the germetry correct and there is little margin for error and tiny variations can and will cause feeding issues. This is why so many glock mag AR PCCs have reliability issues. Rudy from Macon has wrote about this on this very site more than once and this is why there are certain lowers he prefers. Yes glock mags can be made to with with a PCC lower but it's far from an ideal solution and its more a solution based on convenience and not because it's the best.

For those saying "why buy this you can get an MP5 for that money"- the real question is, why would anyone buy an MP5/SP5 instead of this?

This is better in nearly every single way than that old dog (as long as it works). Objectively better.

3.6 lbs!

Toss that stamped welded steel in the scrap heap

In theory at least you could get the upper and then get an MP5 mag lower or maybe if someone comes out with an affordable Scorpion mag lower it could be close to perfect....and you could probably do it for at least a few hundred less than the whole gun....I still wish the whole deal was about a G cheaper though. If you could get this gun for under 2k and maybe the upper alone for a grand I don't think they would be able to make enough to sell, they would fly out of there at that price and Id like be one of the first in line for one.

Who knows maybe down the road they will offer one without the monolithic upper, but also maybe not because I feel like that assembly is essential the the RDB system

Thats at least if the upper will work with those mags and doesn't have something specific going on that it will only take glock mags.

This isn’t even out yet, but it’s already better than the best, most prolific 9mm subgun of all time?!?

Ok man, whatever you say.

Lol it takes pistol mags

This looks a LOT better than the STEN.  I don't know that the STEN was the best subgun of all time, but you do you.

Dude, read the thread. His entire premise about the round being pushed up in time is about being outrun.  It's an idiotic premise, esp when you consider this is a roller delayed action, as oppose to a short recoil pistol.

Most glock 9mm ARs have issues because they use adapters that are sloppy or because they are franken guns so you don't have dimensional accuracy, causing feeding issues.

It may be an over priced turd or it may be the best pcc ever- only time will tell but I am happy companies are trying to make things better.  I assume street price will be a lot less also.  For a range toy I agree that it will not do anything the CZ or a CMMG will not do but variety it nice!!  Shot show should also have some new items and upgrades to things.

I really really like it.

But at $1800 for just the upper?  I'd spend a few pennies more and get an MP5 clone.

Did you read the article?  It will work with existing AR9 lowers.  Get a colt mag or mp5 mag lower.

Yes using more reliable mags with cross compatibility is definitely hilarious!

...

Already got one and while i love shooting it, that’s about the only thing i like about it. Ergos are dated, weighs as much as my 16” AR with optic and a heavier stock, no BHO, (reliable) mags are stupid expensive, mounting optics on it is almost an acquired taste because of the front sight being in the way.

I agree the Angstadt is really pricy but what it does is it brings (presumably) MP5 shootability in a modern package that can use mags other than Glock mags depending on your lower (for all the Glock mag haters ). A tuned CMMG RDB setup will give similar shootability (or better if you follow member amphibian’s formula), but then you still have the buffer tube which increases the overall package size. So while I don’t like the price either, objectively there’s certainly a heck of a lot else to like about the Angstadt imo.

All of what this guy said

I'm happy to see more delayed blowback options.

I need to see more details of this setup before possibly getting one.

1. It has to work with a RDIAS or RR for me to get one or I might as well stick with the CMMG RDB.
2. Would prefer to use Endomags
3.  I know I'm probably only one of a handful of people out there.... but I personally like the buffer tube since I can leverage new buffer options like the hydraulics and flat springs.   Why?  Because of #1.  I'm going full auto and I want my full auto cyclic rate to be in the 600's and smooth.  I just don't think you can get a slow and smooth cyclic rate if you go too compact.

If you really hate the buffer tube, you can get a LAW folder but then you can't shoot it folded...if you really want to shoot it folded, a Dead Foot Arms setup should allow a CMMG RDB to function folded...however, I would be willing to bet that it won't be as smooth and slow as a CMMG RDB equipped with a buffer tube running a hydraulic buffer and flat spring.

I have no desire to shoot a SMG with the stock folded.

So yeah...I can shoot my Mini UZI or MP5K with the stock folded but the CMMG RDB shoots smoother than both of them and with a nicer cyclic rate....I attribute that to the delayed blowback mechanism AND having a buffer tube utilizing a hydraulic buffer and flat spring.

The number of people in this camp, or who even have the possibility to get in this camp, is infinitesimally small. And those people seem to live a bubble where this is what the average buyer & user wants or needs or can get.

But if you read posts here from a lot of dudes they talk as if an RDIAS can be picked up down at Walmart for $129. Or maybe it's just a flex? Or maybe in fact all own training facilities, have FFL SOT DOD SOF Class 37 licenses and personal ammo budget of $350K/year. I don't know. But it's not exactly in touch with who the buyer is IMO

Totally get that....that is why I mentioned in #3 I'm probably in a very small group.

Again, glad to have more options...I know, 1st world problems...

However, just giving my 2 cents on basically the desire to have highest level of modularity.  IMHO, the perfect setup would be the bolt assembly and receiver only would be proprietary for the roller delayed assembly and then use off the shelf rails and blowback 9mm barrels....although the fact that they took the extra mile to go with a fluted chamber like an MP5 is interesting.

The CMMG RDB only has the BCG and BBL that are proprietary which is great but I don't have any confidence in the ejector spring.....on that note, there are probably a lot of proprietary parts in this new setup and we will just have to see how well it all holds up.

I hear ya, and hey that's a pretty darn good small group to be in!

Agree regarding the barrel & rail. Though like you said, the barrel they decided on is kind of cool. The upper should be more like ~$1200 IMO, but I guess they are kind of in a category of one with this innovation, so I'm still going to pick one up regardless.

Bear in mind I got my stuff back in the day...I couldn't afford to pay todays prices.
Did you already request pre-order info?
I really want to see it broken down.  I hope they went with a fixed ejector!

While a different angle for the magazine would be more aesthetically pleasing, the magazine angle is secondary to reliable function of the firearm.  I think this is a pretty neat firearm.

Yeah I did, they just said sign up for the newsletter (i did), that's who will hear about the pre-order first. So nothing to really do yet. I also asked about compatibility with lowers etc and they were tight lipped on that for now.

I'm hoping a few samples trickle out soon to the youtube/instagram people and we get a good look at the nitty gritty before pre-orders start. I'm half hoping it's not all its cracked up to be so I don't have to spend, ha.

It's not about being outrun by design, it's about reliability.... you know, the thing PCC's generally struggle with. Any sort of loss of spring tension or round/follower drag within the mag is going to be much more of an issue for a glock mag. As someone who competes with a PCC and owns Glock (both blowback and RDB), Colt, MP5, and MPX fed PCC's and seen hundreds of guns go down, it's not just my anecdotal experience.

It simply allows for a much smaller margin of error. Roller-lock doesn't speed up nor slow down the window in which round is fed. IMO you're trading one point of failure (single loading pathway) for another (mag system). The PCC's seem to be very finnicky about full engagement on the bolt face. Then again, most PCC's would function just fine with +P NATO 124gr ball.

You are clueless.  Lacking full engagement IS about being outrun.

Roller locked systems DO have a slower cycle time for the action to return to battery.  Hence the G18 has a cyclic rate of 1200 RPM.

As mentioned, Glock PCCs have issues due to bad designs and franken builds, not because the Glock mag somehow is unreliable in delivering the round to the feed lips  If that were the case, Glock handguns would not be among the most reliable in the world.  You are seeing a correlation with PCCs and foolishly applying causation.

9mm PCCs I own:
AR9s using Glocks
AR9s using Colt mags
2 MP5s
MPX
CZ Scorpion
Sub2000
Uzi
2 Calicos
2 Sterlings

oh neat a roller delayed gun that isn't an  H&K, hope its around $1500...  uh no...

I'd be in if it worked with Colt mags, and the price settles down a bit.

BAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA

I would have Zero interest in this or any other new PCC if it didn't take Glock mags.

Having to buy 20x new, proprietary mags for each new PCC sucks.

Standardization is a good thing, and for the US market, the Glock mag is the "AR magazine" of 9x19 polymer mags. Available everywhere from multiple manufacturers, and cross compatible with multiple platforms.

Glock mag cross-compatibility:

-Glock handguns
-MPA Defender MAC
-Kel Tec Sub 2000
-Ruger PCC9
-Multiple AR15 PCC's
-CMMG Banshee
-B&T APC9 Pro
-Angstadt MDP-9
-Soon: Stribog w/ aftermarket lower

Now if we could just get a Glock mag compatible Scorpion lower....

Idk what to make of this honestly.

It looks and I guess would feel like the New Frontier Armory Glock Lower AR-9 with a matching Side charging upper(matrix or NFA same shit ) and mine was compact as well. Used glock mags like I said and  the only difference on mine I would say is the stock attachment area where mines is not the pic rail type setup on this thing. My MPX has that pic rail attachment for the stock.

I’m not bashing Angstadt Arms in any way at all, I love all the other stuff they make, I think it was their udp-9 that inspired me to create my setup.

I liked my setup so much that after I sold after building and shooting the first one that I made another one.

First one I used I think was a Shockwave Blade (Remember those?) as the back half.

And then on the second one I used a pdw setup for the stock but didn’t buy the actual “Butt Stock” Rails. I bought the Cheek Weld Rails as you see in the pic. But once the stamp came thru I ordered the Actual Butt stock rail. I still got that damn cheek weld setup somewhere too!

But I can’t find a pic for some reason with the nice pdw setup with the actual pdw stock. If I find one I’ll post it.

But just my personal two sense (lol)

I think overall I spent like maybe $600? Each time to build one.  Most expensive was the pdw stock but even that I got on a clearance and both times I bought the blemish versions of the lower and upper (u don’t like blemish? Sure go stick it in the safe and smile at your paperweight)

Every single blemish item I’ve bought has had like the most unnoticed scratch or cerakote spot or watever but seriously wasn’t even a big deal at all. If you shoot your stuff actively it gets scratched up and banged up (no. Not abused) so that’s why I always get blemish if I can.

But honestly the setup from New Frontier the c-5 Pdw pistol is really nice. I’d rather buy that. Has the same pic rail stock attachment like the Angstadt Arms udp-9. The C-5 is well worth the price in my opinion. an FFL in my area actually has ones made from NFA on a variance with his own logo and model number etc. Its the same thing, but its not the "cw-5" and doesnt say NFA. Pretty cool idea that guy has. If you gonna sell that anyways, might as well be the same thing from the same manufactuer but with your logo for advertising and ofcourse they will come back. Its like a business card and constant advertisement in one.

Eta- Added the pics (had to put them for hosting)

Click here for the pics

weird. I liked it till I got to the price, then I got mad.

I have a Glock 17 with Flux brace. Folds up smaller, can shoot like a pistol, takes glock mags. I'm into it for $650 and it's smaller, lighter, etc. I could include a dot, mill the slide, threaded barrel, buy a can, and pay for the stamp and stuff a grand in my pocket.

I don't understand what your budget direct blowback AR9 builds have to do with this roller delayed blowback AR9.

Completely different firearms in how they operate, handle recoil, and suppress.

Some more pictures and info. TFB Link

I want to see a direct comparison between the B&T APC9 and this.
I do not want to hear from AR15 Internet critics that are destructive critics.
it takes brains to be a constructive critic and NONE to be a destructive one.