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Posted: 6/4/2018 10:27:25 AM EDT
[#1]
I’m not saying he will do this for you, but he walked me through timing. He made me many HARDENED paddles for timing. He sold me 2 complete Colt burst kits modified for LL use. At cost.
Amazing. |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 10:41:47 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m not saying he will do this for you, but he walked me through timing. He made me many HARDENED paddles for timing. He sold me 2 complete Colt burst kits modified for LL use. At cost. Amazing. |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 12:02:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sending mine to an SOT who has his own RLL with over 40k rounds on the same paddle, he's going to do the milling and timing for me. I have 1 burst kit already but will buy another sometime soon (200 seems to be the best price I can find). Esox made the paddles for me so I could time it myself. I’ve only used one. |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 12:41:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had my lowers milled by a SOT, so I could use any off the shelf upper. As opposed to having a working lower and then modifying every upper. Esox made the paddles for me so I could time it myself. I’ve only used one. Don't mean to ask a dumb question. Thanks! |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 3:03:29 PM EDT
[#5]
From my previous posting, and this applies if you are getting it professionally done or you are confident milling a deeper pocket in your lower. So it doesn’t matter if you get a high shelf, low shelf, no pocket, or even an 80% lower. You will want to deepen the pocket. Period.
Deepen the pocket enough so the LL fits and works without ANY modification to the upper. No need to shave down the rear take down lug, nada. Once you do that you can put just about any upper on it and be good to go. I say just about because there are some special billet uppers that are out of spec. They look pretty and work in semi, but the LL is picky and why chance it? Use the rock solid forged uppers from all the good brands. Once I got my lowers squared away, that was it. My SOT milled them out, he had my LL and my carriers. It all works. No issues. I’ve even put an Adam Arms piston retrofit upper on it and it’s perfect. Of course I had the carrier modified for the LL. |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 3:08:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Think about it. To have an auto disconnect (LL) to work you need
1. The LL (with appropriate paddle) 2. Compatible trigger group 3. Compatible carrier 4. Room in the lower for the LL to function The upper should be irrelevant. |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 3:11:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From my previous posting, and this applies if you are getting it professionally done or you are confident milling a deeper pocket in your lower. So it doesn’t matter if you get a high shelf, low shelf, no pocket, or even an 80% lower. You will want to deepen the pocket. Period. Deepen the pocket enough so the LL fits and works without ANY modification to the upper. No need to shave down the rear take down lug, nada. Once you do that you can put just about any upper on it and be good to go. I say just about because there are some special billet uppers that are out of spec. They look pretty and work in semi, but the LL is picky and why chance it? Use the rock solid forged uppers from all the good brands. Once I got my lowers squared away, that was it. My SOT milled them out, he had my LL and my carriers. It all works. No issues. I’ve even put an Adam Arms piston retrofit upper on it and it’s perfect. Of course I had the carrier modified for the LL. Professionally done, don't trust myself enough. I have 2 lowers I'm sending out. I guess the "working lower" threw thing me off, as if milling the lower had a negative impact when the LL wasn't in. What SOT did you use? Thanks for the explanation! |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 4:12:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Wright Armory in Phoenix AZ. I have trusted them in the past, so I knew they could get this LL project done easy.
The lowers are perfect in safe-semi-semi without the LL and safe-semi-auto with the LL. |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 4:16:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks! I'm going with a Buhler Ballistics, I know the guy pretty well
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Posted: 6/12/2018 11:50:50 AM EDT
[#10]
What paddle thickness are you guys using? M60 Joe said .032 is standard, seems to be the thinnest option
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Posted: 6/12/2018 3:14:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From my previous posting, and this applies if you are getting it professionally done or you are confident milling a deeper pocket in your lower. So it doesn’t matter if you get a high shelf, low shelf, no pocket, or even an 80% lower. You will want to deepen the pocket. Period. Deepen the pocket enough so the LL fits and works without ANY modification to the upper. No need to shave down the rear take down lug, nada. Once you do that you can put just about any upper on it and be good to go. I say just about because there are some special billet uppers that are out of spec. They look pretty and work in semi, but the LL is picky and why chance it? Use the rock solid forged uppers from all the good brands. Once I got my lowers squared away, that was it. My SOT milled them out, he had my LL and my carriers. It all works. No issues. I’ve even put an Adam Arms piston retrofit upper on it and it’s perfect. Of course I had the carrier modified for the LL. |
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Posted: 6/12/2018 3:47:47 PM EDT
[#12]
I have a vltor mur without forward assist (9mm), and its unmodified. It runs like a champ with my LL, colt lower.
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Posted: 6/13/2018 12:29:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Asking my SOT about the deepening pocket and not modifying the lug at all. Not sure what style he prefers, but I guess as long as it runs safely I'm happy
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Posted: 6/14/2018 2:32:45 AM EDT
[#14]
I recently picked up my LL from the dealer. My plan is to use a 0.035" thick protector/reinforcer, and the 'AR-15-only parts mod' (Esox Special).
I've read through other LL threads and watched Esox's vids multiple times but I'd like some clarification before cutting my lowers. The phrase "deepening the [FCG] pocket"....that's referencing the area where it transitions from wide to narrow, NOT the rearmost area by the buffer detent hole, NOR in reference to 'lowering the shelf'? Is this correct? Like this:  Attached FileIn summary, for proper link function with modified AR-15 parts, one must: 1. "Lengthen" the FCG pocket by removing enough material at the transition point to allow the link to come fully back/ears touching rear of receiver (link should no longer touch/bind at the transition point). 2. Do nothing to the upper receiver take-down lug 3. Do nothing to the shelf (assuming it's already low shelf) 4. Use an SP-1 spec carrier, either preexisting or modified AR-15/M-16 5. Open up slots on paddle to allow protector to fit with link Aside from timing, function check, etc, am I missing anything else? |
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Posted: 6/14/2018 2:37:12 AM EDT
[#15]
My lowers have some shaved off where your arrows are and the back thinned out a hair towards the buffer retainer. Makes the wall between the retainer and the pocket thinner, but not like it really matters. With the kns protector I have had to shave some of the upper lugs that were overly long.
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Posted: 6/14/2018 11:10:35 AM EDT
[#16]
I've seen mixed things on the rear takedown lug, trying to talk to my SOT about the work he will be doing and ask about that. I think hes planning to shave some of it, but it seems that other people have left that alone. damnit
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Posted: 6/14/2018 11:51:48 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've seen mixed things on the rear takedown lug, trying to talk to my SOT about the work he will be doing and ask about that. I think hes planning to shave some of it, but it seems that other people have left that alone. damnit Keep in mind you can only deepen the fire-control pocket so much to gain clearance between the link and the rear lug without ultimately modifying the selector. Once the rear pocket is milled deeper than the top of the selector barrel, all that happen is the link just rides on top of the selector and essentially teeder-todders over the selector barrel. You do gain a touch of clearance with the link teedered back over the selector barrel but it can only tip so far and now the link is cockeyed inside the receiver. For my hosts with a standard semi disco setup where I just get Safe & Auto, I mill the selector barrel down as well so it is a smooth plane from the pocket over the top of the selector, which gains a good amount clearance in the process. On a modified 3rd burst setup it is more involved as you have to mill two areas of the barrel (both semi and auto) and one of those areas is the spot on the selector facing up when in the auto position but is the same spot that prevents the trigger from moving when the selector is rotated 180 degrees to the safe position. |
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Posted: 6/14/2018 12:03:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Thanks! I'm sure my guy will get it running, I just like to over educate and ask a million questions lol
The positive is as long as the link is safe I can just build a new host and configure differently haha |
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Posted: 6/15/2018 1:18:11 PM EDT
[#19]
I was watching Esox's video and was wondering if anyone has modified their M16 Hammer at all? In his video he talks about modifying a standard AR15 hammer, wasn't sure if there is any reason why it couldnt/shouldnt be done to an M16 hammer.
This is for clearance of the link purposes Edit: There is no need for an M16 hammer with an RLL is there? I could just use an AR15 hammer... |
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Posted: 6/18/2018 10:28:41 PM EDT
[#20]
I've had to shave down my rear lugs a bit to account for the LL protector, even with the low shelf. It's not a bit deal and takes me all of 2 minutes with a cheap harbor freight grinder.
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Posted: 6/19/2018 1:19:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was watching Esox's video and was wondering if anyone has modified their M16 Hammer at all? In his video he talks about modifying a standard AR15 hammer, wasn't sure if there is any reason why it couldnt/shouldnt be done to an M16 hammer. This is for clearance of the link purposes Edit: There is no need for an M16 hammer with an RLL is there? I could just use an AR15 hammer... |
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Posted: 6/19/2018 11:42:20 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'll actually have to modify the m16 hammer from a modified burst kit to use it, otherwise the back will slam into the link as I recall. Just cut off the sear catch on the back. Did that to both I converted. |
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Posted: 7/1/2018 1:08:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I recently picked up my LL from the dealer. My plan is to use a 0.035" thick protector/reinforcer, and the 'AR-15-only parts mod' (Esox Special). I've read through other LL threads and watched Esox's vids multiple times but I'd like some clarification before cutting my lowers. The phrase "deepening the [FCG] pocket"....that's referencing the area where it transitions from wide to narrow, NOT the rearmost area by the buffer detent hole, NOR in reference to 'lowering the shelf'? Is this correct? Like this: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/444683/rVGOHbe-575220.JPG In summary, for proper link function with modified AR-15 parts, one must: 1. "Lengthen" the FCG pocket by removing enough material at the transition point to allow the link to come fully back/ears touching rear of receiver (link should no longer touch/bind at the transition point). 2. Do nothing to the upper receiver take-down lug 3. Do nothing to the shelf (assuming it's already low shelf) 4. Use an SP-1 spec carrier, either preexisting or modified AR-15/M-16 5. Open up slots on paddle to allow protector to fit with link Aside from timing, function check, etc, am I missing anything else? I also don't like deepening the FCG pocket to accommodate the added KNS protector thickness. I prefer to shave 0.040" off the rear lug of the upper receiver instead. This is because it keeps the RLL more parallel to the disconnector. If you deepen the pocket, then the link rotates on the selector barrel and I just don't like the fact that it isn't a straight in-line pull along the length of the RLL. These are just my opinions, YMMV, etc. v/r, Esox |
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Posted: 7/1/2018 2:42:16 PM EDT
[#24]
That all makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying. I've been playing around with modified parts and see exactly what you're talking about. I have burst parts on order now so hopefully I'll get this thing up & running.
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Posted: 7/1/2018 9:40:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Thanks for the input! Glad there is a decent community of RLL guys on here. I'm not doing the work myself but I at least like to understand it...might need to do it eventually
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Posted: 7/5/2018 7:41:43 PM EDT
[#26]
https://www.cmmginc.com/product/rifle-mkgs-banshee-9mm-nfa-guard/
Would it be legal to run a RLL (or for that matter a RDIAS) in one of these more refined 9mm lowers that takes Glock mags? |
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Posted: 7/8/2018 1:04:48 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.cmmginc.com/product/rifle-mkgs-banshee-9mm-nfa-guard/ Would it be legal to run a RLL (or for that matter a RDIAS) in one of these more refined 9mm lowers that takes Glock mags? |
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Posted: 7/8/2018 2:54:01 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My understanding is a drop-in sear (LL or DIAS) can be used in any AR-15 'type' weapon. If you think about it, most pistol caliber ARs out there are basically just an AR-15 with a different magwell. This includes CMMG's Guard. I have a DDLES/QC10 lower I'm planning to use with my LL. |
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Posted: 7/8/2018 4:50:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My understanding is a drop-in sear (LL or DIAS) can be used in any AR-15 'type' weapon. If you think about it, most pistol caliber ARs out there are basically just an AR-15 with a different magwell. This includes CMMG's Guard. I have a DDLES/QC10 lower I'm planning to use with my LL. |
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Posted: 7/9/2018 12:19:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I also have a DDLES SBR that I want to use with my link. I am hoping someone will come out with a bolt assembly that can be used with an existing gun, which will ease recoil and lessen the wear on the link. |
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Posted: 7/9/2018 6:14:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you looked at the CMMG Guard bolt/barrel kit? You would need to mill the carrier to Colt SP1 spec to use the link but it's exactly what you're describing. It's on my list of ongoing projects... |
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Posted: 7/9/2018 6:58:54 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you looked at the CMMG Guard bolt/barrel kit? You would need to mill the carrier to Colt SP1 spec to use the link but it's exactly what you're describing. It's on my list of ongoing projects... I also read something from Foxtrot Mike that seems to indicate that they are coming out with some sort of system that will lessen recoil with 9mm. They are being very coy about it but it sounds like some sort of non-blowback system. If so, I am hoping that it will be built for the Colt system and will work with a link (with mods done to the carrier). Someone has got to do it! |
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Posted: 7/9/2018 10:16:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have. But doesn't the guard kit (bolt &/or barrel) have to be modified to even work with the Colt system? I know there are Smith's out there that can cut a bolt carrier to work with a link but I don't know of any that are modifying the existing guard Glock kit to work with a Colt system. I don't have the skill to do this myself. I also read something from Foxtrot Mike that seems to indicate that they are coming out with some sort of system that will lessen recoil with 9mm. They are being very coy about it but it sounds like some sort of non-blowback system. If so, I am hoping that it will be built for the Colt system and will work with a link (with mods done to the carrier). Someone has got to do it! Quite honestly, any gunsmith or even a machine shop could do these modifications if you printed/took them these directions. As for FM's new design...I'm watching closely myself. I'm not sure if they licenced CMMG's radial delayed system or if it's something entirely new. Can't wait to see the final product! |
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Posted: 7/11/2018 10:17:10 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To get the gun to work with the Colt system a few tweaks have to be done to the gun/magblock, not so much with the CMMG bolt/barrel. It's not terribly hard to do; member Amphibian has a stellar 'how-to' on his website: http://c3junkie.com/?page_id=597 Quite honestly, any gunsmith or even a machine shop could do these modifications if you printed/took them these directions. As for FM's new design...I'm watching closely myself. I'm not sure if they licenced CMMG's radial delayed system or if it's something entirely new. Can't wait to see the final product! |
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Posted: 7/25/2018 7:57:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Sadly wasn't in stock when I needed one so I paid more than 2x this for mine...
Anyone looking for a burst kit..https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/f1000617 |
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Posted: 7/25/2018 8:39:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sadly wasn't in stock when I needed one so I paid more than 2x this for mine... Anyone looking for a burst kit..https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/f1000617 
I ended up piecemealing parts to get what I needed: Disconnectors: https://www.apexgunparts.com/rifles/ar-15/ar-by-part-type/lower-parts-kits/colt-ar15-m16-3-round-burst-disconnector-set-very-good.html Trigger: https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/triggers/m4-burst-trigger-assembly-sku160308372-82269-171702.aspx Selector: https://www.dsarms.com/p-15518-dsa-m16-full-auto-select-fire-selector-switch-all-nfa-rules-apply.aspx |
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Posted: 7/25/2018 8:40:32 PM EDT
[#37]
And now of course Apex is sold out of the disconnectors...
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Posted: 7/26/2018 11:43:24 AM EDT
[#38]
Ya I bought a complete kit from FTF for like 210. shizzzzzzzzz
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Posted: 7/26/2018 5:19:59 PM EDT
[#39]
I ordered a 3 round burst kit from mgw. Those guys called me today saying that I have to provide them with an FFL or an sot in order for them to ship the parts. They said that they're obligated by law to do this
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Posted: 7/26/2018 6:26:21 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I ordered a 3 round burst kit from mgw. Those guys called me today saying that I have to provide them with an FFL or an sot in order for them to ship the parts. They said that they're obligated by law to do this Aside from Apex, I also ordered semi disconnectors from Brownells (currently backordered) and burst disconnectors from DPMS: https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/disconnector-parts/disconnectors/m4-burst-disconnect-semi-prod22405.aspx http://www.dpmsinc.com/DPMS-Double-Hook-Disconnector-for-Burst-Fire-Control-Group_p_2611.html Numrich has semi disconnectors in stock (but not burst): https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/ar15-m16/m4-carbine-2 Another option, albeit pricey, is Specialized Armament: http://www.specializedarmament.com/ |
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Posted: 7/26/2018 9:08:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Its annoying to try to find a burst kit sometimes, especially if you are in a hurry to build up a lower...then you end up paying through the nose.
I've got to imagine that in the future when M16A2s start getting de-milled there will be a metric shit-ton of burst kits at rock bottom prices along with A2 parts kits from the typical surplus providers. I don't follow DoD small arms strategy. When will the M16 start being replaced by whatever is the next best thing (or next best thing to the contractor who convinced the government that its better)? |
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Posted: 7/27/2018 4:38:13 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its annoying to try to find a burst kit sometimes, especially if you are in a hurry to build up a lower...then you end up paying through the nose. I've got to imagine that in the future when M16A2s start getting de-milled there will be a metric shit-ton of burst kits at rock bottom prices along with A2 parts kits from the typical surplus providers. I don't follow DoD small arms strategy. When will the M16 start being replaced by whatever is the next best thing (or next best thing to the contractor who convinced the government that its better)? |
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Posted: 10/16/2018 11:05:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Do you guys SBR the lowers you use your LL with? I don’t really see the point unless I were to take it out for “some reason”
I have 2 lowers for my LL, one of which is already SBR. Can probably just save the money |
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Posted: 10/16/2018 2:11:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Short answer, no.
I'm trying out my link with different lowers, some SBR, some not. Once I figure out which setup I enjoy shooting the most, the link will probably live there. If it happens to be a pistol lower, I doubt I'll SBR it. Matter of fact I doubt I'll even take the brace off. |
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Posted: 10/16/2018 2:37:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Cool thanks. If I bring multiple lowers to try I’d just bring a 16” upper to swap on just to cover my ass too. Saves me a stamp
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Posted: 10/16/2018 10:23:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Did someone say they can get paddles made? Since m60joe is gone I dunno where I’d look
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Posted: 11/9/2018 1:48:50 PM EDT
[#47]
SQUAD.
Since I’m a huge fan of consolidating info, I’m going to attempt to put a document together with all they key RLL info from Quarterbore and posts on here. Would love to find a way to download YouTube videos (Esox) and have them as attachments. Planning to include links and references for credit, take pics of my own lowers, paddles, burst triggers. Anyone have thoughts? I’d ideally share it as a google doc that people can add to as well once it’s ready |
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Posted: 11/9/2018 2:00:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would love to find a way to download YouTube videos (Esox) and have them as attachments. |
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Posted: 11/9/2018 2:07:46 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can download YouTube videos (using Internet Download Manager) but I don't have anywhere to host them. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 5:17:38 PM EDT
[#50]
Esox, or anyone else knowledgeable...
Is a relief cut in the rear of the receiver (like right before the buffer tube threads) necessary? I've seen some people do this and some just do the ears relief near the selector (which is all I have done on mine). Looking to include as much info in my "consolidation" as possible. Gracias in advance! |
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