Since this is constantly touted as the reason 9mm carbines/subguns arent useful anymore for defense, you see it everytime when someone brings up the point about them being great home defense guns "But but, Muh body armor!" While yes this is a concern i was thinking about a few things.

1. It doesnt feel like a light tickle when you get shot wearing armor. (Continue to shoot them to the ground or goto failure drill?)

2. What about taking advantage of the longer barrel, increased velocity with loads such as 95 grains or 100 grains, something that would reach the velocity threshold of 1400 FPS that is generally needed to defeat soft body armor? The 50 gr Liberty solid copper bullets are shown in a MAC video to defeat a kevlar panel and do quite a number on the clay block behind it.

Just something I have been thinking about.

even if you made good points, rifle rounds are more effective, with no big downsides. every firearm is better than nothing, of course.

There are multiple ammo sources for 9mm rounds that go through body armor quite nicely... do some research and you will quickly see what I mean.

Good points, but I'd much rather have a suppressed 9mm PCC in a home defense situation.  You're not fighting off a determined military assault from guys in armor.  You're probably going up against a couple meth heads looking for a quick score, right?

A rifle or SBR shooting full power rifle or intermediate cartridges indoors is going to be like having a flash bang go off near you.  My MP5k is going to be plenty effective up close without blowing my or my wife's eardrums out.  And if they are wearing soft armor.... Well I have a mag full of Liberty Defense.

Just my 0.02.

Head shots are easy with PCC, just sayin'.

My main thought on the body armor question is you never know if they will be wearing rifle plates or not. Interesting? Yes. Shoot them in the face or blow their balls off is better bet IMO.

Chances of thug wearing body armor seem slim although I would consider it (and for shtf). Id care more if my silent alarm worked and having my shotgun pre-racked so I didnt give away my position though.

Also keeping your own rifle rated body armor next to the bed wouod be a good idea, since most bad guys have handguns. Lots of homeowners shot get shot in the body.

32+1 rounds of 147 +p

Even w/ plates.... keep banging until they go down. Hips, legs, heads, etc.

Just put claymores in the hallway.

This and from compact glock 19’sized guns. So from longer barrels no problem.

So thieves are wearing body armor in the US? Or are you worried about LEO kicking your door?

Not sure, as i said its always broght up as a reason that PCCs are obsolete now.

I was just kiddding.

Saying that pcc are obsolete is simply a BS. Expecially nowadays with a huge ammo selection.

They’ll never be obsolete.. low recoil easy to suppress etc

Depends on the type, brand, and quality of soft armor. Like everything else, not all soft armor is made equally, despite NIJ rating. Some are effective beyond what they are rated at, others will fail the moment you go beyond the testing parameters.

Lv 2 is common concealed armor; 1400+ FPS FMJ, and some JHP rounds, will zip through most of this like butter. The above-mentioned 50 Gr. 9mm is a good example.

Some Lv 3A, however, will stop those same 50 Gr. 9mm rounds at point blank. And IME, 3A is more common than Lv 2 these days, due to advancements in soft armor tech over the past twenty years, bringing the cost down and making the panels almost as flexible as older Lv 2 panels.

The military changed over to short-barreled 5.56 carbines for a number of reasons, logistics chief among them; not because MP5's weren't killing fuckers left and right.

What most people fail to understand is the sheer force behind that dinky little pistol round. We're talking about 350-450 ft-pounds of kinetic energy, roughly 500+ joules. So think about this.

Getting hit with a 9mm while wearing soft armor is like getting hit with a hammer. A 32 ounce claw hammer being swung by an angry gorilla.

It may or may not take you off your feet, but it is going to hurt like a motherfucker, knock the breath out of you, and either bruise or break a number of your ribs.

ETA: Forgot to mention, soft armor and hard armor are two different animals. Soft armor cushions the blow. Hard armor spreads it out over a much greater area. Pistol round Vs. Hard Armor doesn't hurt much, whereas against soft armor, you'll be bruised to hell and back.

There's a reason why the best defense is soft armor layered under hard armor, and not getting fucking shot in the fist place.

Yeah, if your target is standing still for you. Not so much in a dynamic situation.

Really?

Oh, you meant at 7 yards, shooting paper.

Got it.

I don't think I have ever heard that concern. I always hear concerns about over penetration with 9mm and 45 carbines.

Idk who's saying they aren't popular for home defense.

It seems that pistols are the most popular firearm for home defense (and obviously inferior to a PCC) .

The wearing of body armor by adversaries of the military & LE is probably the main reason for decline in the use of SMGs by those groups.

They're a great weapon for uniformed patrolmen, but unfortunately, were generally only found in Europe for this purpose, even at the height of their popularity. They're mainly viewed as a SWAT weapon in the US when it comes to LE use.

I don't think you'd be undergunned at all when defending your home from intruders. I've never heard of a burglar wearing armor.

It's when you go breaking into homes of drug dealers and gang organizers that you may need AP capability.

Years ago when the 5.7 first hit the streets, HCI sent faxes to police departments about the AP ability. The local PD mentioned it in their briefings "make sure if the person is using a 5.7 that you don't let them shoot you". So one of the smart ass cops replies "so does this mean we're supposed to stand there and let them shoot us once we verify it's not a 5.7?".

I also recall something about a 12ga slugging putting a 3" dent in the armor, not something you'd want in your chest anyway.

I would not be too concerned over the possibility of armor as long as you have enough rounds going at him. Armor doesn’t cover everything. Keep shooting until the threat isn’t a threat. You probably won’t keep all your rounds on the armor anyways. A pcc would be fine imo. I’d be happier with a pistol caliber sbr or braced “pistol” than a regular pcc though. Less awkward and easier to move around with.  If you’re going to have the long gun, I’ll take a shotgun.

Shotgun?  Why? They don't "scatter" much at all in the short distances you would be working with. They have a lot of recoil and make a lot of noise, ever shoot one inside a room size enclosure? You have only a few rounds and besides, with all the recoil second shot follow up will be problematic.  PCC in up-close and personal situations seems a good choice. Large caliber rifle in a room is blinding and the noise will damage your ears...try it once.

Power from PCC compared to a pistol is a big upgrade. I demonstrated this to a doubter once with an old thick skinned water heater. His 9mm pistol would only dent it some when it hit the side. My 9mm carbine penetrated the first side and dented the other side. He is a believer now.

As for armor....when you get hit, even if it doesn't go through it you will feel it big time and it will get your attention, its not like the movies.  Also, with a PCC you will have 15 to 32 further chances to cause some harm and diversion. I like those odds a lot.

Besides, the chances of the perpetrator having armor in a home invasion is small, very very small. These are street thugs, not an organized and well trained force.

You may want to try firing a PCC indoors... A 12ga, with all of its flaws, is much quieter indoors than a 9mm PCC. A 115gr round from a PCC clocks in around 160db; a 12ga with 18” barrel around 156db.

That surprises on the noise. Maybe my 8” shotguns have ruined me. I can’t imagine shooting anything indoors without hearing protection let alone a big boomer. The older I get the more I wish I could just easily suppress everything.

They really putzed about like chickens with their cocks cut off over the 5.7

In soft armor? A slug is going to really, really, really ruin your day. If you've ever been hit by a beanbag, well... It's worse. Much, much worse.

And that's if it doesn't go through your armor.