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Posted: 5/26/2019 6:47:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2019 6:50:33 PM EDT by _DR]
My first Tavor, a SAR FDE, it's a used 9mm I got last week. I have been experiencing a recurring issue with that makes it very disappointing, but I am determined to work through it.

Synopsis of first range trip:

- Locked and loaded, let the bolt fly home on a full mag of WWB 115 grain (genuine newish Colt mag I have used with my Colt 9mms) , appeared to be in battery.

- Pull the trigger, get only a "Click". Pull the mag, eject the live round, no sign of any impression on primer. Check the mag, all rounds seated to the rear, slap mag home, rack the action, bolt appears to be in battery. Pull the trigger. Click again. Nothing else. Eject live round again, no dimple in primer.
Not re-using these btw.

- I go through this about 5 times. Then it started firing, and functions fine thereafter for the remainder of the 100 rounds I brought. Accuracy is fine. A bit gassy indoors for an unsuppressed gun, but I'm fine with that. So I go home thinking all is well and attribute the failures to crud from the previous owner even through I had lubed the BCG well with CLP.

Synopsis of second range trip:

- After lubing (not cleaning) the SAR again, shooting at an outdoor range this time (gas not nearly so bad outdoors) I get about 15 rounds downrange fine, then it starts doing the no-fire clicking thing again. I get 10 rounds downrange, then it will click without firing for a couple rounds, then work fine for 20 rounds.

- This time I make an unusual discovery upon taking out the bolt group. A 9mm casing from the ammo that only used on the second range trip - Perfecta 9mm 115gr (so I know it had not been in there all along) had found its way into the area where the bolt reciprocates. It was dinged up pretty bad. But I don't attribute the failures to this since it was not there the first time.

- I had seen this cartridge case eating behavior before in an M17S, kind of disappointed it could happen in a supposedly more refined Tavor. Maybe just a bullpup thing?

So long story less long, can anyone give me any idea on where to look for the no-fire click on trigger pull problem? I am about to engage in a deep cleaning and inspection of this 9mm SAR, but it's a foreign entity to me, so any help rooting out the cause is appreciated.

I really want to like this weapon, I love shooting it when it works, but I can't keep a rifle that cant be made utterly reliable. Any help is appreciated. For the record, it appears bone stock and unmodified, including the trigger pack. There is no damage anywhere that I can see.
Link Posted: 5/26/2019 10:54:51 PM EDT
Not sure if the 9mm firing pin has the multi wire coil spring but I mangled my fp spring when I reassembled my 223 and did exactly what your describing.
Link Posted: 5/27/2019 5:11:38 PM EDT
Call IWI.
Link Posted: 5/27/2019 10:09:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2019 10:14:12 PM EDT by _DR]
Thanks for the tips guys, but I made peace with my Jewish princess.

After a thorough cleaning and downloading the (imo) difficult to read IWI manual with its small pockets of reference to the 9mm (blowback) Tavor I determined that there was nothing wrong with the mechanics of the weapon. I still think it is alien technology, but that is a different story.

When I went to shoot it at the range this morning I was able to intentionally replicate the issue, and after seeing what the issue was, I shot 150 rounds, 50 of which were ugly Tula steel cased cartridges, without issue at all, in sewing machine mode.

What I found was, that when the 9mm tavor is has a mag loaded with an open bolt, and the bolt is allowed to slam home and load the first cartridge, it will cycle the rest of the mag flawlessly.

However, when a magazine is loaded from a closed bolt, if you perform anything less than a VAC (Very Aggressive Cocking movement) the bolt may not go into battery. I was able to replicate this with a moderate cocking movement when loading on a closed bolt.

Unlike my CZ Scorpion, which has a very positive bolt into battery tendency, regardless of the effort put into the cocking or charging, the 9mm Tavor seems to fall just short of closing all the way when load on a closed bolt and racking the charging handle, as evidenced by a very small gap visible in the ejection port between the bolt and the forward edge of the ejection port. Pulling the trigger results in the "Click" with no fire I experienced previously.

That of course is good since nobody wants an out of battery detonation, but I do lament the non-reciprocating changing handle and no forward assist since you cannot push it the rest of the way, it requires ejection of the partially loaded round and loading of a new round with a vigorous cocking movement.

Having said that, once I realized what was required if loading on a closed bolt, I experienced zero failures with any type of ammunition.

If someone was to manufacture a reciprocating charging handle for the Tavor, I would certainly be among the first to buy. Still, it's a keeper. Once I did what was needed, it ran just fine.
Link Posted: 5/28/2019 9:50:17 AM EDT
On you second range trip, you mention stoppages after 10 and 15 rounds, which I assume is in the middle of the mag. How would the bolt not being in battery due to weak manual charging be consistent with that? Seems your failure would only be on the first round if that’s the cause.
Link Posted: 5/28/2019 7:10:30 PM EDT
What about this part:

"- This time I make an unusual discovery upon taking out the bolt group. A 9mm casing from the ammo that only used on the second range trip - Perfecta 9mm 115gr (so I know it had not been in there all along) had found its way into the area where the bolt reciprocates. It was dinged up pretty bad. But I don't attribute the failures to this since it was not there the first time."?

I haven't had this issue, yet.
Link Posted: 5/29/2019 10:25:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2019 10:39:50 PM EDT by _DR]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By willi3d:
On you second range trip, you mention stoppages after 10 and 15 rounds, which I assume is in the middle of the mag. How would the bolt not being in battery due to weak manual charging be consistent with that? Seems your failure would only be on the first round if that’s the cause.
View Quote
It was after the first round in every case. I was downloading mags to 5, 10 and 15 rounds for the sake of troubleshooting. I didn't make that clear.
Link Posted: 5/29/2019 10:39:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kaos:
What about this part:

"- This time I make an unusual discovery upon taking out the bolt group. A 9mm casing from the ammo that only used on the second range trip - Perfecta 9mm 115gr (so I know it had not been in there all along) had found its way into the area where the bolt reciprocates. It was dinged up pretty bad. But I don't attribute the failures to this since it was not there the first time."?

I haven't had this issue, yet.
View Quote
After 150 more rounds I haven't had the case eating issue again. Maybe just a freak occurrence?

Still it happened. This is the actual case I removed from the inside of the receiver.



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