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Posted: 1/13/2020 11:16:15 PM EDT
[#1]
You likely won’t find 5.56 load data. I’ve read before that SAAMI and NATO measure pressure at different places (mid chamber vs leade) - when you test in the same place (mid chamber), 5.56 has a max pressure like 100PSI higher. It’s basically the same. Some gun site did a lengthy test and concluded the whole 223 vs 5.56 was/is way overblown.
Just load and check for pressure signs. You’ll see pressure signs long before a rifle goes kaboom. ETA: Interestingly, I found this on Hornady’s site...it’s for 60-62 grain projectiles, but the 5.56 shows higher powder charges and lower velocities, which makes me think it has a lot more to do with the chamber dimensions and their impact on the hand load vs the load itself. That’s the only conclusion I can draw. |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 11:36:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You likely won’t find 5.56 load data. I’ve read before that SAAMI and NATO measure pressure at different places (mid chamber vs leade) - when you test in the same place (mid chamber), 5.56 has a max pressure like 100PSI higher. It’s basically the same. Some gun site did a lengthy test and concluded the whole 223 vs 5.56 was/is way overblown. Just load and check for pressure signs. You’ll see pressure signs long before a rifle goes kaboom. ETA: Interestingly, I found this on Hornady’s site...it’s for 60-62 grain projectiles, but the 5.56 shows higher powder charges and lower velocities, which makes me think it has a lot more to do with the chamber dimensions and their impact on the hand load vs the load itself. That’s the only conclusion I can draw. OP, chrono some 75-77gr 5.56 ammo from your barrel and load for that approximate velocity. Also, look for some of the Reload Zone columns from Tactical Life magazine last year. Some good info on both 223 and 5.56 loads with bonded and other tactical billets. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 12:02:31 AM EDT
[#3]
Don't know where there is any data for the Gold dots, but this manual on page 46 has bullets of equal weight in 5.56 pressures.
http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/WPHandloading-Guide-7.0-Web-REV.pdf |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 12:08:32 AM EDT
[#4]
On the Speer website. https://www.speer-ammo.com/reloading/rifle/recipe/?setId=12c99aff-1db2-4fe6-9dc8-993027311a16
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Posted: 1/14/2020 12:19:27 AM EDT
[#5]
There's not enough difference to matter.
https://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=434 https://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=473 See those average pressures? Those are the operating pressures. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:25:45 AM EDT
[#6]
Speer lists some very significant powder charge differences and velocities between their .223 and 5.56 data, with a pretty minimal OAL change. So, as always, start low and work up in your particular rifle.
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Posted: 1/14/2020 3:43:57 AM EDT
[#7]
Looks like Speer’s 5.56 data is weak sauce.
These loads are for 75-77gr OTMs so drop down a bit and work up. First is .223 pressure. Next two are 5.56 (Mk262 clones) Powder Charge Bullet. Velocity SD 100yd Groups Power Pro 2000-MR. - 24.8 - 77 Nosler CC - 2,474fps - 10 - 0.46 CFE223 - 26.4 - 75 Hornady - 2,720fps - 13 - 1.33 CFE223 - 26.2 - 77 SMK - 2,694fps. - 14 - 0.65 |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 11:08:01 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Does anyone know a source of load data for 75gr gold dots that is 5.56 level pressures? Speer’s data appears to be .223 pressure. What powder are you trying to use? I found it interesting when I first started wanting to work up loads for the 75gr GD, they had data for 8208 in .223, but not for that powder in 5.56. It was one of the few powders not listed for 75gr GD in 5.56 They did have data for 55gr and 62gr GD in both .223 and 5.56 I went with the powder range that worked for me with other 75-77gr bullets, then worked up to what I had previously tested as max for that powder and bullet weight range. I ended up settling on the same load I use for my 75-77gr loads using 8208, although the velocity was a little lower. SO that lead me to believe the GD has a longer bearing surface, so watch for pressure signs. I started 1.5gr below what I wanted to use, which was around the middle of the .223 data to start my workup. But I do have thousands of rounds of loading experience using that powder/primer combo with that weight of bullet range. I recommend to start low and keep an eye out for pressure signs, which did start occurring earlier than expected. Only had a few rounds to test with the Lab Radar, but figured better than nothing. 75gr BTHP Hornady, same load as the GD loads. 
75gr Gold Dot 
Both out of the same rifle. 16" barrel. 1:8 twist. 5.56 chamber. Both fired after a cool down. Using a red dot @ 50 yards 
Red dot at 100 yards 
The 23.4gr group on the right, I pulled a couple shots, so I re-shot the group at the center bull. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 11:25:18 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.speer-ammo.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/Rifle/22_caliber_224_dia/556x45mm_NATO_Gold_Dot_75.pdf What powder are you trying to use? I found it interesting when I first started wanting to work up loads for the 75gr GD, they had data for 8208 in .223, but not for that powder in 5.56. It was one of the few powders not listed for 75gr GD in 5.56 They did have data for 55gr and 62gr GD in both .223 and 5.56 I went with the powder range that worked for me with other 75-77gr bullets, then worked up to what I had previously tested as max for that powder and bullet weight range. I ended up settling on the same load I use for my 75-77gr loads using 8208, although the velocity was a little lower. SO that lead me to believe the GD has a longer bearing surface, so watch for pressure signs. I started 1.5gr below what I wanted to use, which was around the middle of the .223 data to start my workup. But I do have thousands of rounds of loading experience using that powder/primer combo with that weight of bullet range. I recommend to start low and keep an eye out for pressure signs, which did start occurring earlier than expected. As far 8208XBR, I have two ideas about that. My experience with it has been that when you start closing in on max, it can spike its pressure pretty suddenly, kind of an obvious concern when dealing with heavy for caliber bullets. Second, Gold Dots are not jacketed bullets IIRC. I think they're plated. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 12:47:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Western powder data... ramshot tac has 556 load data.
Take a look, not sure if they have it for gold dot |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 9:37:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am going to try Power Pro 2000-MR and see if it lives up to the hype. As far 8208XBR, I have two ideas about that. My experience with it has been that when you start closing in on max, it can spike its pressure pretty suddenly, kind of an obvious concern when dealing with heavy for caliber bullets. Second, Gold Dots are not jacketed bullets IIRC. I think they're plated. Thats a combo i’ve been wanting to test after watching some gold dot videos recently. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 11:11:15 PM EDT
[#12]
The Hornaday manual has two 75gn bullet profile loads in 5.56. One is the BTHP you may be able to work from.
 Attached FileJRB recently posted a video on the 75gn gold dots. He used RL-15 at .223 pressures and Power Pro 2000-MR st 5.56 pressures. Edit: I just noticed he was using the Speer data but he was getting 2750+ fps in his testing.  75gr Speer Gold Dot in 223 Remington |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 11:32:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would really like to hear your results with that combo especially if you chrono it.... Thats a combo i’ve been wanting to test after watching some gold dot videos recently. I’m looking to make a hot load for hunting white tail and hogs. I tried to decide between 300 Blackout, 6.8, 6.5G, and 7.62x39. They all fell short in some way. My needs were good bullet selection to hand load for hunting, cheap plinking ammo for high volume shooting, greater terminal performance than 5.56, and reliable operation. 300 Blackout has steel case coming to market but it looks to be at around 33 cpr on pre order, and it’s performance just isn’t quite there. 6.8 is a high performer, especially with light for caliber bullets. It also suffers no reliability issues like x39. No cheap plinking ammo. None. 6.5G almost does it. 7.62x39 performance up close, and 308 performance at long range. Reliability issues seem to be worked out. Wolf has cheapish steel case at 25 cpr. Just a **little** too much to suit me for high volume plinking, and availability is less assured than 5.56 or 7.62x39. 7.62x39 has great ammo availability and is the cheapest steel case center fire rifle cartridge. It’s a great short range performer on game with hand loads. The bolt, however, is a flawed design in ARs. They eat extractors. I don’t want miss a shot on an animal because I had no follow up shot due to broken extractor or bolt failure, and I don’t want to swap extractors every 4th range trip. Rather than fight all of that I decided my best bet is to stick with 5.56and load heavy for caliber bullets to 5.56 pressures and launch them from a 20” barrel. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 11:43:58 PM EDT
[#14]
I've always used 24gr Varget or 23.6gr TAC with 75/77gr bullets, usually in PMC or .mil cases with Wolf primers....I've yet to find a reason to use anything else (although I do have 8lbs 8208 to use).
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Posted: 1/14/2020 11:50:28 PM EDT
[#15]
I have 6,000 75gr Speer TMJ that load identical to Gold Dots that I need to find a load for. They have a great BC; even better than a 77gr SMK, and people are getting decent accuracy from them, so I would like to do something around MK262 velocity with them. I am will be curious what everyone else has for results.
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Posted: 1/15/2020 12:01:10 AM EDT
[#16]
They have a great BC; even better than a 77gr SMK |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 12:15:01 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had no idea Speer was offering a 75gr bullet, and it will be interesting to see if the BC is accurate. $19/box and BC of .411 would be a 77gr SMK killer, to the point I wouldn't even buy anymore of the Sierras. |
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Posted: 1/16/2020 12:32:02 AM EDT
[#18]
Hmmm, off to search for cheap Speer 75gr bullets!
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Posted: 1/16/2020 12:37:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmmm, off to search for cheap Speer 75gr bullets! |
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Posted: 1/16/2020 1:34:05 AM EDT
[#20]
Just checked the RMR website....that place is going to cost me money!
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Posted: 2/17/2020 8:33:57 PM EDT
[#21]
My brother just got the order of 75 gold dot's in so we will be testing them hopefully in a couple weeks.
Should end up with chrono data for 10.5" brls and 16" when we are done. Plan to use tac for the powder. |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 11:30:15 AM EDT
[#22]
The SPEER 75GR. Gold Dot (GD) bullet over TAC loaded to 5.56MM pressure using Ramshot load data has been working well for me for a couple years now. The load is accurate and works VERY well on flesh & bone targets such as varmints/hogs/whitetail. And it appears that SPEER has a 20% rebate going on now for components (https://www.speer-ammo.com/promotions). So I stocked up from midsouthshooterssupply. At approx. 16 cents a bullet after rebate, the 75GR. GD bullet is a very affordable bullet for wide .223/5.56MM application. Work up slowly and err on the side of caution when handloading to 5.56MM NATO pressure. HTH
EDIT: The 5.56MM 75GR. Gold Dot over 5.56MM pressure TAC handloads chrono'd below were almost a full grain short of the MAX listed 5.56MM NATO pressure TAC charge for the 75GR. bullet. Will test higher TAC charge weights once it warms up. 5.56MM NATO loads using AA2520 are just a bit faster but that propellant has just too much thermal variation for me, approx. 2X that of TAC. 5.56MM NATO pressure loads using AA2520 developed at 80F are too slow in cold weather and have WAY too much pressure in the summer heat or a hot barrel. The small increase in MV is not worth the added thermal variation of AA2520 IMO. Different 1x7 ROT barrel lengths: MV of factory SPEER .223 75GR. Gold Dot (24475) VS 5.56MM 75GR. Gold Dot over 5.56MM NATO pressure TAC handload: 300 FT. MSL/29.92"/80F same day/same barrel Colt 10.3" MK18: 2167 FPS VS 2387 FPS Colt 14.5" M4---: 2389 FPS VS 2565 FPS Colt 20" M16A4 : 2592 FPS VS 2770 FPS |
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Posted: 4/16/2020 1:53:12 PM EDT
[#23]
I am currently on a 2-3 week hunt/shoot & took the time to work the 75GR. Gold Dot bullet up to MAX 5.56MM NATO pressure over TAC. Just as I suspected, the 75GR. GD bullet can be handloaded to a much higher MV than the relatively slow factory .223 pressure load.
10.5” Noveske N4 w M4 can@ 60F/300 MSL/29.92” Factory Hornady .223 75GR. Gold Dot—-: 2162 FPS 75GR. GD over MAX 5.56MM NATO TAC: 2507 FPS That 345 FPS increase in MV will extend the 75GR. GD expansion envelope approximately 200yds. which is no small difference when shooting flesh & bone targets such as hogs, etc. |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 10:40:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Where do you get the 75gr gold dots?
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Posted: 4/18/2020 2:03:17 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do you get the 75gr gold dots? That thread is at the top of the page. Don't get OP thread locked, thanks. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 1:07:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am currently on a 2-3 week hunt/shoot & took the time to work the 75GR. Gold Dot bullet up to MAX 5.56MM NATO pressure over TAC. Just as I suspected, the 75GR. GD bullet can be handloaded to a much higher MV than the relatively slow factory .223 pressure load. 10.5” Noveske N4 w M4 can@ 60F/300 MSL/29.92” Factory Hornady .223 75GR. Gold Dot—-: 2162 FPS 75GR. GD over MAX 5.56MM NATO TAC: 2507 FPS That 345 FPS increase in MV will extend the 75GR. GD expansion envelope approximately 200yds. which is no small difference when shooting flesh & bone targets such as hogs, etc. Outstanding. Looking forward to hearing results. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 2:59:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.speer-ammo.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/Rifle/22_caliber_224_dia/556x45mm_NATO_Gold_Dot_75.pdf What powder are you trying to use? I found it interesting when I first started wanting to work up loads for the 75gr GD, they had data for 8208 in .223, but not for that powder in 5.56. It was one of the few powders not listed for 75gr GD in 5.56 They did have data for 55gr and 62gr GD in both .223 and 5.56 I went with the powder range that worked for me with other 75-77gr bullets, then worked up to what I had previously tested as max for that powder and bullet weight range. I ended up settling on the same load I use for my 75-77gr loads using 8208, although the velocity was a little lower. SO that lead me to believe the GD has a longer bearing surface, so watch for pressure signs. I started 1.5gr below what I wanted to use, which was around the middle of the .223 data to start my workup. But I do have thousands of rounds of loading experience using that powder/primer combo with that weight of bullet range. I recommend to start low and keep an eye out for pressure signs, which did start occurring earlier than expected. Only had a few rounds to test with the Lab Radar, but figured better than nothing. 75gr BTHP Hornady, same load as the GD loads. https://imgur.com/z2KBcE3.jpg 75gr Gold Dot https://imgur.com/86D1gsA.jpg Both out of the same rifle. 16" barrel. 1:8 twist. 5.56 chamber. Both fired after a cool down. Using a red dot @ 50 yards https://i.imgur.com/xEGVW7l.jpg Red dot at 100 yards https://i.imgur.com/yVwVPCq.jpg The 23.4gr group on the right, I pulled a couple shots, so I re-shot the group at the center bull. That is almost 200FPS slower than the same load with a 77gr. SMK out of my 18" barrel. Pretty surprising to me since 8208 is on the faster side of powders for heavy bullets. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 3:37:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am currently on a 2-3 week hunt/shoot & took the time to work the 75GR. Gold Dot bullet up to MAX 5.56MM NATO pressure over TAC. Just as I suspected, the 75GR. GD bullet can be handloaded to a much higher MV than the relatively slow factory .223 pressure load. 10.5” Noveske N4 w M4 can@ 60F/300 MSL/29.92” Factory Hornady .223 75GR. Gold Dot—-: 2162 FPS 75GR. GD over MAX 5.56MM NATO TAC: 2507 FPS That 345 FPS increase in MV will extend the 75GR. GD expansion envelope approximately 200yds. which is no small difference when shooting flesh & bone targets such as hogs, etc. How was the accuracy? I tried the Hornady Superformance 75gr HPBT and they didn't group very well at all compared to the slower loads. I ended up loading mine a little faster than the factory Hornady .223 loads and didn't try to push them any faster than a max charge of CFE223. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 4:43:05 PM EDT
[#29]
The 75GR. GD bullet previously tested to be accurate at mid 5.56MM pressure. Now that I know how hard I can push it, will test accuracy starting at MAX 5.56MM NATO pressure then work down as needed. I did quite a bit of water-shot expansion testing. The 75GR. GD bullet did not expand at all at approximately the 1600 FPS impact velocity rumored to be needed to achieve expansion nor at 1700 FPS impact velocity. I finally observed a very minimum level of expansion at just below 1800 FPS impact velocity. The 62GR. GD showed virtually the same very minimum expansion level at a little over 1600 FPS impact velocity. Water-shot expansion of the 75GR. GD at 2506 FPS MV was top-shelf excellent at approximately 0.58” at the widest point with 68.8GR. retained weight. I have more testing to do, including accuracy & actual BC at LR, with the 75GR. GD as well as several others bullets. But access to the LR ranges is restricted by flood water at this time. More later as it can be accomplished.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 6:36:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have 6,000 75gr Speer TMJ that load identical to Gold Dots that I need to find a load for. They have a great BC; even better than a 77gr SMK, and people are getting decent accuracy from them, so I would like to do something around MK262 velocity with them. I am will be curious what everyone else has for results. Not saying Speer is lying but I'd confirm that BC before I jump on the "better-than-SMK" bandwagon. That is a very optimistic BC and needs to be confirmed......matching the Hornady 75 BTHP Match yes, I can see that.... .411 seems very high. And "decent" accuracy is also something I'd be curious to see about......for me SMK are very consistent and accurate. They'd need to be VERY good bullets to exceed the SMK's in accuracy. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 7:10:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not saying Speer is lying but I'd confirm that BC before I jump on the "better-than-SMK" bandwagon. That is a very optimistic BC and needs to be confirmed......matching the Hornady 75 BTHP Match yes, I can see that.... .411 seems very high. And "decent" accuracy is also something I'd be curious to see about......for me SMK are very consistent and accurate. They'd need to be VERY good bullets to exceed the SMK's in accuracy. I posted my findings elsewhere rather than here, but based on my Labradar readings over a 90 yard spread the 75gr cannelure TMJ has a BC of .310 using the JBM ballistic calculator. The factory CBC MK262 clone ammo has a result of around .353 |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 12:45:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I posted my findings elsewhere rather than here, but based on my Labradar readings over a 90 yard spread the 75gr cannelure TMJ has a BC of .310 using the JBM ballistic calculator. The factory CBC MK262 clone ammo has a result of around .353 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not saying Speer is lying but I'd confirm that BC before I jump on the "better-than-SMK" bandwagon. That is a very optimistic BC and needs to be confirmed......matching the Hornady 75 BTHP Match yes, I can see that.... .411 seems very high. And "decent" accuracy is also something I'd be curious to see about......for me SMK are very consistent and accurate. They'd need to be VERY good bullets to exceed the SMK's in accuracy. I posted my findings elsewhere rather than here, but based on my Labradar readings over a 90 yard spread the 75gr cannelure TMJ has a BC of .310 using the JBM ballistic calculator. The factory CBC MK262 clone ammo has a result of around .353 Ok, so your findings are they do NOT have a better BC than the SMK's? You've said yes but the testing shows no? |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 1:00:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, so your findings are they do NOT have a better BC than the SMK's? You've said yes but the testing shows no? My findings are that their reported numbers, which I had quoted previously in the thread, are wildly optimistic. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 11:57:29 PM EDT
[#34]
I got my order in from RMR today. I have not loaded any yet but I have found a 1.7gr variance in weight.
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Posted: 5/3/2020 11:47:11 AM EDT
[#35]
The 75GR. Gold Dot over MAX 5.56mm NATO TAC in #41 primed LC brass 2.255” COAL grouped 0.75”@100yds. Average MV was 2891 FPS in 18” 1x7.7 SS Krieger/CLE barrel with M4 can. Group was fired off an unstable wooden BR & I am a bit rusty at BR shooting just now. Load has more accuracy potential than this IMO. But this is plenty good enough for a high speed tactical/hunting load.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 5/4/2020 8:00:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Conditions were not trigger-pull this morning. But they were good enough to take the 5.56MM MAX TAC 75GR. Gold Dot load out to 600yds. First group was 5 7/8” using once-fired LC brass and I backed it up with a 5 3/4” 5 shot group using new LC brass (MV 2901 FPS from same 18" 1x7.7 SS Krieger/CLE barrel with M4 can). You may be able to find a more accurate node or propellant. I would look at IMR 8208 XBR for MATCH accuracy with low ES/SD and wide range thermal stability. But the MAX TAC 5.56MM NATO charge grouped well enough for my purposes. This MAX pressure/high velocity 75GR. GD load will hit flesh & bone targets VERY hard at any reasonable range for a .223/5.56MM.
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Posted: 5/11/2020 9:21:40 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tommee-boy-72: I got my order in from RMR today. I have not loaded any yet but I have found a 1.7gr variance in weight. My experience as well. Tried several powders, including TAC, in 2 different 16"/midlength/1in 7 rifles with all groups in the range of 2-3 inches at 100 yds. Oh well  |
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Posted: 5/11/2020 11:45:54 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PIDDLER: My experience as well. Tried several powders, including TAC, in 2 different 16"/midlength/1in 7 rifles with all groups in the range of 2-3 inches at 100 yds. Oh well Ouch. In my ladder test I was shooting 1.5" groups with 21.5gr of AR-Comp at 2.245" |
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Posted: 5/12/2020 8:57:47 AM EDT
[#39]
The factory 75GR. Gold Dot bullets (22475GDB2) I am using appear to vary little in weight. Range over the (10) bullets I weighed was only 75.1GR. - 75.2GR. Average weight of the (10) factory bullets was 75.21GR. with most of the bullets weighing very close to the 75.2GR. average weight. All (10) factory new 75GR. Gold Dot bullets I weighed were between 75.15GR. and 75.25GR.
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Posted: 5/12/2020 9:27:29 AM EDT
[#40]
You guys are going to talk me into reloading 5.56/.223 (I currently only reload 300 AAC). Ugh.
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Posted: 5/12/2020 11:44:38 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys are going to talk me into reloading 5.56/.223 (I currently only reload 300 AAC). Ugh.  |
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Posted: 5/12/2020 11:56:07 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PIDDLER: My experience as well. Tried several powders, including TAC, in 2 different 16"/midlength/1in 7 rifles with all groups in the range of 2-3 inches at 100 yds. Oh well Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PIDDLER: Originally Posted By tommee-boy-72: I got my order in from RMR today. I have not loaded any yet but I have found a 1.7gr variance in weight. My experience as well. Tried several powders, including TAC, in 2 different 16"/midlength/1in 7 rifles with all groups in the range of 2-3 inches at 100 yds. Oh well Try weight sorting? Often, you will find BTO length will vary as the weight does. |
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