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Posted: 5/6/2023 8:11:04 PM EDT
Ok gents, local shop has a 513-T for $650...
Has 1 mag, globe front sight and Redfield peep rear.
Barrel has factory tapped with screws installed.

Here is where it gets ODD...

Shop says it is a government rifle.
There are NO "US Property" roll marks anywhere.
However in the barrel just about the stock line it is stamped "U.S.N" ....
No real indication of being a US Property gun.

Barrel stamp had "WF" for date code.

Stock has no military stamps or markings.
Barrel and receiver have a green hue/patina to it.  Looks as if at one time the blue was stripped down. Appears like it has very light pitting marks.

Main question is.. the U.S.N roll mark on the barrel. Is this how the Navy marked rifles, or is this a scam per say.
Link Posted: 5/6/2023 8:19:59 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't know the answer to the roll mark question, but $650 is way too much money for a 513T, especially considering the condition described.
Link Posted: 5/6/2023 8:23:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Agreed about the price.

Link Posted: 5/6/2023 9:11:40 PM EDT
[#4]
This one does Not have any U.S. Property roll marks anywhere.
Just U.S.N. on the barrel just above the top line of the wood forearm section.

I can not find ANY info to confirm the claim of a US Navy rifle.

But I figured ask here to see if anyone can give feedback on the navy theory.
Link Posted: 5/21/2023 10:46:43 PM EDT
[#5]
its most likely a cmp rifle...i got one from CMP and its not marked us property. i will dig it out and look what its stamped
mine has the eb on it too  ( thats a government acceptance mark from what i know)
Link Posted: 5/22/2023 12:02:56 AM EDT
[#6]
I picked up a US Property stamped one from a gun store in Boulder last year. Very good condition. Paid $385 and couldn’t get out the door fast enough. It was from an estate sell off and they had so many Winchesters it damn near broke me. Went back once or twice a week getting some other good deals as well. Chasing the provenance has been a rabbit hole that I still have not crawled out of. Not sure about your markings, sorry. BTW, if you buy it, Ma Brownells sells different apertures in a four pack. The magazines will take a little luck though. Damn fine Rifle as you well know.
Link Posted: 5/24/2023 6:49:52 PM EDT
[#7]
A two letter date code of “WF” indicates August of 1959.  1937, 1985, and 2011 are are also “F” years but are obviously not applicable.

The US Military did continue to buy 513Ts at least into the mid 1960s and while I have seen them in gloss blue, a matte blue stamped “military finish” and the very common military reparkerized finish, they’ve all been marked “US Property” with the USN rifles also marked “U.S.N.

I doubt it’s a USN rifle.  If so, it would have been purchased outside the normal procurement process and probably with local funds.  Perhaps a NROTC or NJROTC program.  If it had CMP paperwork that would support the latter theory.

It’s also probably not an intentional scam, at least by the shop. People give local gun shops and their staff way too much credit.  No one can be expert in everything.  I’ve had LGS owners insist all kinds of things that just are not true and resulted in the, often unintentionally over representing a gun.  

For example a lot of gun shop owners and staff will tell you that a checkered Winchester 9422 is an “XTR” and want XTR .  In fact the first year (1978) XTRs were not checkered, so you’ll find uncheckered XTRs, and after the end of the “XTR” grade in 1989, *all* 9422s had checkered stocks.   The defining traits of a 9422 are highly polished flats on the hammer and lever,  “XTR” stamped on the barrel, and of course a SN falling in the 1978-1989 date range.

If you trust what a shop tells you and don’t verify it with your own research you are well on your way to be disappointed.

—-

That said I don’t think a U.S. property mark adds much value to a 513T and I would not pay a significant premium for a mI,Italy 513T. They were not exactly rare.  However condition is everything and while 513Ts  are increasing in value, $650 sounds like a lot for the condition you describe.

Link Posted: 6/3/2023 8:51:57 PM EDT
[#8]
I have spent a lot of money at this shop. I do not thinknthey themselves are trying to scam me.

I do however think the person who sold it to them fed a line of bullshit. They just rolled with what they were told from seller.

I will stop in on Tuesday and see if they will let me take some pictures. They have never told.me no, but I always ask out of respect for their shop.
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