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Posted: 12/14/2020 3:01:42 PM EST
5.56 is to 300BLk as .308 is to ???

Is there an equivalent caliber designed to run in AR10 rifles / pistols that is actually made?
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 3:05:56 PM EST
.416 Spike appears to be a thing, but I'm asking if there's something that you can actually buy a barrel and ammo for without it all being 100% custom / reloaded?
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 3:11:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 4:19:48 PM EST
7-08 ?
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 4:21:45 PM EST
243?
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 5:05:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By buck19delta:
7-08 ?
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This is a good answer as well.
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 9:13:14 PM EST
.243 and 7-08 both are reductions in diameter from 308. I'm talking about going the opposite direction and increasing size and weight of the projectile.

.338 Whisper seems like it might be the closest thing but there doesn't seem to be any real OEM support for it
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 9:15:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
8.6 CREEDMOOR
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Yes! This looks like the ticket. Sad that it seems to have been abandoned.
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 9:24:05 PM EST
I'd say a 375 BR (aka 375 whisper) would be a closer scaled up comparison.
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 10:30:58 PM EST
375 Raptor

Mike
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 11:48:34 PM EST
450 Bushmaster?
Link Posted: 12/15/2020 11:29:58 AM EST
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Originally Posted By euclid:
450 Bushmaster?
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That's designed to fit in the AR-15 platform; I'm asking for the equivalent designed for the AR-10 platform
Link Posted: 12/15/2020 11:33:03 AM EST
308 to 308.  No need to change it.  

However I do understand your question.  There just isn’t a need.
Link Posted: 12/15/2020 11:49:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By VT_K9:
375 Raptor

Mike
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and the original 45 version I can’t remember if it’s 450 or 45 Raptor
Originally Posted By mandalore117:


That's designed to fit in the AR-15 platform; I'm asking for the equivalent designed for the AR-10 platform
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There really aren’t any comparable rounds yet. The 8.6 Creedmoor/Blackout will be cool but there are already a couple 338 Variants that fit in an AR-15 like 338 Spectre. One problem is projectiles. The nice thing about 300 Blackout is that there are a ton of 30 caliber heavy match bullets.

There just isn’t much market for what you’re asking currently but I think we are getting closer. I really hope we see a full line of commercial cartridges eventually.
Link Posted: 12/15/2020 11:50:30 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mandalore117:


Yes! This looks like the ticket. Sad that it seems to have been abandoned.
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Originally Posted By mandalore117:
Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
8.6 CREEDMOOR


Yes! This looks like the ticket. Sad that it seems to have been abandoned.

Why do you think it’s been abandoned?
Link Posted: 12/15/2020 1:17:35 PM EST
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Originally Posted By mandalore117:


Yes! This looks like the ticket. Sad that it seems to have been abandoned.
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Originally Posted By mandalore117:
Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
8.6 CREEDMOOR


Yes! This looks like the ticket. Sad that it seems to have been abandoned.




It has not been abandoned.  Q is working on releasing a gun on it next year.  Likely a semi auto and a Bolt gun both.
Link Posted: 12/15/2020 1:27:56 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:




It has not been abandoned.  Q is working on releasing a gun on it next year.  Likely a semi auto and a Bolt gun both.
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Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
Originally Posted By mandalore117:
Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
8.6 CREEDMOOR


Yes! This looks like the ticket. Sad that it seems to have been abandoned.




It has not been abandoned.  Q is working on releasing a gun on it next year.  Likely a semi auto and a Bolt gun both.



This, plus can development.
Link Posted: 12/15/2020 1:45:02 PM EST
338 federal?
Link Posted: 12/16/2020 7:07:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By RDTCU:
338 federal?
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My thoughts exactly.

kwg
Link Posted: 12/16/2020 7:52:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By kwg020:

My thoughts exactly.

kwg
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Originally Posted By kwg020:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
338 federal?

My thoughts exactly.

kwg

Not really a comparable round. Can’t easily load the heavies because the case is too long.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 8:24:35 AM EST
338 Federal since it is based on a 308 case.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 8:54:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
338 federal?
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Originally Posted By kwg020:

My thoughts exactly.

kwg
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Originally Posted By LoadedDrum:
338 Federal since it is based on a 308 case.
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My thought.

Think the ante could be upped to a 9mm-08 for dummy-thicc full-size-action subs?
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 12:09:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By FritzTKatt:




My thought.

Think the ante could be upped to a 9mm-08 for dummy-thicc full-size-action subs?
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You would need to shorten the case for it to be effective. That’s why ole JD based his big whispers on the 7mm BR.

Outside of the 50 caliber subsonics the small platform AR’s actually have a lot more options.  350 Legend and maybe 9x39 on the horizon are pretty exciting. If they do the new 338 blackout it will be cool but I’d really like to see more 40+ size options.
Link Posted: 12/22/2020 10:23:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By FritzTKatt:




My thought.

Think the ante could be upped to a 9mm-08 for dummy-thicc full-size-action subs?
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Why bother when you can go 358 Winchester instead (isnt 9mm = .355?) ?  Should be relatively easy to convert - a guy on the FAL files did a FAL in that caliber (bears in AK...) IIRC he only needed a barrel - standard mags and follower, etc. just worked.
Link Posted: 12/22/2020 10:48:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/22/2020 5:34:46 PM EST by MS556]
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Originally Posted By eye-gor:


Why bother when you can go 358 Winchester instead (isnt 9mm = .355?) ?  Should be relatively easy to convert - a guy on the FAL files did a FAL in that caliber (bears in AK...) IIRC he only needed a barrel - standard mags and follower, etc. just worked.
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Yes!  Bingo, we have a winner!

The woefully neglected .358 Winchester cartridge (simply a .308 case necked up to 35 caliber) is the equivalent .308 larger bore cartridge for the original post of this thread.

It was, and remains an excellent hunting round for shorter distance (woods) hunting.  It has spectacular terminal ballistics with properly constructed bullets. Factory ammo choices are limited.  For hand loaders, it is an excellent medium bore choice for larger game out to 200 yards.

The .338 Federal is another larger than .308 choice, again based on the same case, this time necked up to .338 caliber.  Factory ammo is only available from Federal, as far as I know.  It sort of bridges the gap between the .308 and .358.  Again, because of limited factory ammo availability, it is best for those who handload.  Like its .358 big brother, aftermarket bullets for handloaders in both .338 and .358 have abundant choices in construction and weight.
Link Posted: 12/22/2020 12:10:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:

You would need to shorten the case for it to be effective. That’s why ole JD based his big whispers on the 7mm BR.

Outside of the 50 caliber subsonics the small platform AR’s actually have a lot more options.  350 Legend and maybe 9x39 on the horizon are pretty exciting. If they do the new 338 blackout it will be cool but I’d really like to see more 40+ size options.
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Originally Posted By eye-gor:


Why bother when you can go 358 Winchester instead (isnt 9mm = .355?) ?  Should be relatively easy to convert - a guy on the FAL files did a FAL in that caliber (bears in AK...) IIRC he only needed a barrel - standard mags and follower, etc. just worked.
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If it already exists, then so be it.

At this point you'd be really hard pressed to make a cartridge that hasn't been done before, or at least very close.
Link Posted: 12/22/2020 5:51:08 PM EST
358 Winchester suffers from the same thing as 338 Federal when it comes to trying to make a good subsonic round. Too much case length and capacity. Maybe it would work if you got up into the 45+ diameters. I wish Hornady or the like would jump in head first but that's got to be a hard choice to sell to the money people.
Link Posted: 12/30/2020 5:21:30 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
358 Winchester suffers from the same thing as 338 Federal when it comes to trying to make a good subsonic round. Too much case length and capacity. Maybe it would work if you got up into the 45+ diameters. I wish Hornady or the like would jump in head first but that's got to be a hard choice to sell to the money people.
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I was just looking at Midway and the heaviest (and assuming the longest) bullet they have in .35 is a 310gr Woodleigh round nose soft point.  After some reading, .416 seems to be a viable caliber to go to, so much so that Spikes Tactical made something called .416 Spike. 460gr at 1050fps.

Link Posted: 12/30/2020 5:26:53 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Steamedliver:
308 to 308.  No need to change it.  

However I do understand your question.  There just isn’t a need.
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Solid!

But if we had to neck up for comparison 45 raptor is the answer.
Link Posted: 12/30/2020 5:37:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2020 5:39:17 PM EST by bluemax_1]
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Originally Posted By Steamedliver:
308 to 308.  No need to change it.  

However I do understand your question.  There just isn’t a need.
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Bigger Bada Boom so someone can complain about their rifle from X Company blowing up, then never returning to the thread
Link Posted: 12/30/2020 7:01:12 PM EST
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Originally Posted By freebullet:



Solid!

But if we had to neck up for comparison 45 raptor is the answer.
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Originally Posted By freebullet:
Originally Posted By Steamedliver:
308 to 308.  No need to change it.  

However I do understand your question.  There just isn’t a need.



Solid!

But if we had to neck up for comparison 45 raptor is the answer.

Except for the subsonic part.
Link Posted: 12/30/2020 8:28:01 PM EST
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Originally Posted By bushmaster069:

Except for the subsonic part.
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Originally Posted By bushmaster069:
Originally Posted By freebullet:
Originally Posted By Steamedliver:
308 to 308.  No need to change it.  

However I do understand your question.  There just isn’t a need.



Solid!

But if we had to neck up for comparison 45 raptor is the answer.

Except for the subsonic part.

Aren’t there some good subsonic loads that run the gun? Thought I read there were.
Link Posted: 12/31/2020 3:19:26 AM EST
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:

Aren’t there some good subsonic loads that run the gun? Thought I read there were.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By bushmaster069:
Originally Posted By freebullet:
Originally Posted By Steamedliver:
308 to 308.  No need to change it.  

However I do understand your question.  There just isn’t a need.



Solid!

But if we had to neck up for comparison 45 raptor is the answer.

Except for the subsonic part.

Aren’t there some good subsonic loads that run the gun? Thought I read there were.

There are, but they seem to be skirting the transonic zone.  Someone's recipe was as follows:

16" barrel 1/20 twist pushing 480g lfn bullets over 20.1g H110 at 1045 fps

That's too close so depending on your local weather conditions and how accurate your powder charges are, you'll still break the sound barrier at times. For me, if I'm shooting subsonic ammo, I want it to be reliably subsonic.  That's why I prefer PPU 7.62x39 subs over Brown Bear.  The PPU sounds better suppressed, even though its a lighter/shorter bullet and the Brown Bear still has quite a few rounds per box that go supersonic.
Link Posted: 12/31/2020 3:27:28 AM EST
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Originally Posted By bushmaster069:

There are, but they seem to be skirting the transonic zone.  Someone's recipe was as follows:

16" barrel 1/20 twist pushing 480g lfn bullets over 20.1g H110 at 1045 fps

That's too close so depending on your local weather conditions and how accurate your powder charges are, you'll still break the sound barrier at times. For me, if I'm shooting subsonic ammo, I want it to be reliably subsonic.  That's why I prefer PPU 7.62x39 subs over Brown Bear.  The PPU sounds better suppressed, even though its a lighter/shorter bullet and the Brown Bear still has quite a few rounds per box that go supersonic.
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Originally Posted By bushmaster069:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By bushmaster069:
Originally Posted By freebullet:
Originally Posted By Steamedliver:
308 to 308.  No need to change it.  

However I do understand your question.  There just isn’t a need.



Solid!

But if we had to neck up for comparison 45 raptor is the answer.

Except for the subsonic part.

Aren’t there some good subsonic loads that run the gun? Thought I read there were.

There are, but they seem to be skirting the transonic zone.  Someone's recipe was as follows:

16" barrel 1/20 twist pushing 480g lfn bullets over 20.1g H110 at 1045 fps

That's too close so depending on your local weather conditions and how accurate your powder charges are, you'll still break the sound barrier at times. For me, if I'm shooting subsonic ammo, I want it to be reliably subsonic.  That's why I prefer PPU 7.62x39 subs over Brown Bear.  The PPU sounds better suppressed, even though its a lighter/shorter bullet and the Brown Bear still has quite a few rounds per box that go supersonic.

Since the Raptor is going to be a handloading caliber for the most part I'm sure you could drop it down to where you wanted it.
Link Posted: 12/31/2020 1:53:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:

Since the Raptor is going to be a handloading caliber for the most part I'm sure you could drop it down to where you wanted it.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By bushmaster069:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By bushmaster069:
Originally Posted By freebullet:
Originally Posted By Steamedliver:
308 to 308.  No need to change it.  

However I do understand your question.  There just isn’t a need.



Solid!

But if we had to neck up for comparison 45 raptor is the answer.

Except for the subsonic part.

Aren’t there some good subsonic loads that run the gun? Thought I read there were.

There are, but they seem to be skirting the transonic zone.  Someone's recipe was as follows:

16" barrel 1/20 twist pushing 480g lfn bullets over 20.1g H110 at 1045 fps

That's too close so depending on your local weather conditions and how accurate your powder charges are, you'll still break the sound barrier at times. For me, if I'm shooting subsonic ammo, I want it to be reliably subsonic.  That's why I prefer PPU 7.62x39 subs over Brown Bear.  The PPU sounds better suppressed, even though its a lighter/shorter bullet and the Brown Bear still has quite a few rounds per box that go supersonic.

Since the Raptor is going to be a handloading caliber for the most part I'm sure you could drop it down to where you wanted it.

Of course, but you’ll have to work out any cycling issues.
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