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Posted: 10/19/2018 3:57:25 PM EDT
I inherited a 1903 Rock Island rifle, SN 385XXX, what ammo can I safely shoot in this? Will not shoot a bunch, just need to build a fire in it occasionally, thanks
Link Posted: 10/19/2018 4:02:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Find (do an internet search) for info on the brittle receiver issue.  If your rifle is one of the 'brittle receiver" rifles shooting it isn't recommended by most people.  If it was made after they figured out and fixed the problem then you can shoot any factory made/modern .30-06 ammo in it.  Just be aware that usually, the heavier the bullet, the more it will recoil.
Link Posted: 10/19/2018 4:10:07 PM EDT
[#2]
It is a high number, cutoff was 285,507.  Normally loaded ammo should be just fine.
Link Posted: 10/19/2018 4:52:42 PM EDT
[#3]
So any off the shelf, 150 grain will work? I thought I read somewhere years ago, that these were made to shoot M2 ball only, maybe that was for M1 rifles. Thanks for replys.
Link Posted: 10/19/2018 11:17:44 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
So any off the shelf, 150 grain will work? I thought I read somewhere years ago, that these were made to shoot M2 ball only, maybe that was for M1 rifles. Thanks for replys.
View Quote
The m2 ball ammo is a myth...

Garands and 03s can shoot pretty much all commercial ammo without issue or modifications
Link Posted: 10/20/2018 8:23:15 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
The m2 ball ammo is a myth...

Garands and 03s can shoot pretty much all commercial ammo without issue or modifications
View Quote
Can doesn’t mean should... Garand’s you’d want to stick with 150gr ball ammo between a specified pressure and they sell factory made Garand specific ammo.

For the 1903 this isn’t a concern, but they usually shoot better with 168gr ammo, sometimes heavier.
Link Posted: 10/20/2018 10:14:11 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
The m2 ball ammo is a myth...

Garands and 03s can shoot pretty much all commercial ammo without issue or modifications
View Quote
this is bad info,

yes the 1903 and 1903A3 can shoot any 30.06 ammo,  mine really like AP and reloads in the 168gr range,

however the Garand you want to watch the pressure curve and stick with ammo from 147 to 175 gr in weight,
Link Posted: 10/20/2018 11:56:56 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:

Can doesn't mean should... Garand's you'd want to stick with 150gr ball ammo between a specified pressure and they sell factory made Garand specific ammo.

For the 1903 this isn't a concern, but they usually shoot better with 168gr ammo, sometimes heavier.
View Quote
uh no...the garand can shoot a wide variety of bullet weights...safely...keep it properly lubed.
Link Posted: 10/20/2018 11:58:12 AM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:

this is bad info,

yes the 1903 and 1903A3 can shoot any 30.06 ammo,  mine really like AP and reloads in the 168gr range,

however the Garand you want to watch the pressure curve and stick with ammo from 147 to 175 gr in weight,
View Quote
its not bad info...CMP states 180grn and below.  If you shoot a garand...keep it greased and you won't have any issues.
Link Posted: 10/20/2018 12:13:06 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
uh no...the garand can shoot a wide variety of bullet weights...safely...keep it properly lubed.
View Quote
You’re right, I misspoke... You just need to be aware of and stay within safe pressure loads.
Link Posted: 10/21/2018 10:07:36 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
its not bad info...CMP states 180grn and below.  If you shoot a garand...keep it greased and you won't have any issues.
View Quote
Where does CMP state 180gr and below is "safe"?
Only thing is they sell Garand friendly 168gr ammo on their E-store.

From their own website...

"There are several types of 30-06 commercial ammunition that are represented by their manufacturer as being safe for use in all rifles including semiautomatics. Most manufacturers have a website where you can read about the different cartridges and their compatibility, advantages and appropriate applications. CMP currently sells and stocks some commercial match grade 30-06. We currently use this same round in CMP events with excellent results. Our ammunition can be purchased on our E-Store, mail order, or over the counter in our stores.

Regarding modifications that you can make to your rifle to make it adaptable to a wider variety of 30-06 loadings: there are several variations of an adjustable lock screw that are available from several online sources. This replacement screw allows the venting of some of the pressure in the gas cylinder. The screw is adjustable and allows the shooter through trial and error to find the exact amount of venting needed to ensure reliable extraction and feeding but prevent unnecessary abuse. These adjustable lock screws are not legal for CMP John C. Garand Matches."


"keep it properly lubed" and "keep it greased and you won't have any issues" does not equal safe.

The Garand, without an adjustable gas plug, is designed to be fed ammo with a certain pressure curve.

If you want to use other ammo not designed for the Garand, you need an adjustable gas plug.
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Please stop spreading bad advice.
Link Posted: 10/21/2018 10:35:53 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:

Where does CMP state 180gr and below is "safe"?
Only thing is they sell Garand friendly 168gr ammo on their E-store.

From their own website...

"There are several types of 30-06 commercial ammunition that are represented by their manufacturer as being safe for use in all rifles including semiautomatics. Most manufacturers have a website where you can read about the different cartridges and their compatibility, advantages and appropriate applications. CMP currently sells and stocks some commercial match grade 30-06. We currently use this same round in CMP events with excellent results. Our ammunition can be purchased on our E-Store, mail order, or over the counter in our stores.

Regarding modifications that you can make to your rifle to make it adaptable to a wider variety of 30-06 loadings: there are several variations of an adjustable lock screw that are available from several online sources. This replacement screw allows the venting of some of the pressure in the gas cylinder. The screw is adjustable and allows the shooter through trial and error to find the exact amount of venting needed to ensure reliable extraction and feeding but prevent unnecessary abuse. These adjustable lock screws are not legal for CMP John C. Garand Matches."


"keep it properly lubed" and "keep it greased and you won't have any issues" does not equal safe.

The Garand, without an adjustable gas plug, is designed to be fed ammo with a certain pressure curve.

If you want to use other ammo not designed for the Garand, you need an adjustable gas plug.
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Please stop spreading bad advice.
View Quote
From the CMP garand handbook...

Please describe what "certain pressure curve" the garand was designed for....

note para (2)
Link Posted: 10/22/2018 1:53:30 AM EDT
[#12]
I think that most everyone is trying to give him advice that wouldn't result in damaging his op-rod, but it's nice of you to be "technically correct" in that it isn't 'unsafe' for him to fire it. Just unsafe for the long term integrity of a key component of the weapon
Link Posted: 10/22/2018 3:57:43 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
From the CMP garand handbook...

Please describe what "certain pressure curve" the garand was designed for....

note para (2)
https://i.imgur.com/U2UfQTXl.jpg
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Read #1 and #2 concerning commercial ammunition too.

It's pretty well known what commercial ammo can do to the Op Rod and Receiver Heel (bent rods and cracked receiver heels).
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How old is that CMP pamphlet?

The AR15 pamphlet from Colt also use to say that the rifle was self-cleaning long ago.
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Here is a video by Ian and Karl on the commercial ammo issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_F1riBth8
Link Posted: 10/22/2018 8:10:57 AM EDT
[#14]
For the OP's rifle all the commercial .30-06 should be good to go.

It will kick harder with heavier bullets.

I personally don't care for the old 03's (shooting them) as the stocks are very short for me and my cheek/nose is right up on the back of the receiver/bolt and mine just beats me to pieces after a couple magazines of fire.  The 03A3 is better and the 03A4 is about perfect.  M1917 also (I prefer shooting these to the shorter 03, but it's a body fit issue, not a reliability/accuracy issue).

The M1 Garand will "live" longer with powder in the correct burn rate.  Correct burn rate = correct pressure range at the gas port.  If the powder burn rate is too slow (like is usually used with heavier bullets) the gas port pressure can be above what the system was designed for and it will accelerate wear/tear and damage the rifle sooner or later.  Lots of people survive a car crash.  How many survive 10 or 15 car crashes?  The more you do it, the greater the risk that something will be "fata" at some point.

A few years back, somebody here I think, posted a link to a very good article on ammo tests with lots of commercial .30-06 ammo showing chamber and gas port pressures.  Very interesting/good test/report.
Link Posted: 10/22/2018 9:35:02 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Read #1 and #2 concerning commercial ammunition too.

It's pretty well known what commercial ammo can do to the Op Rod and Receiver Heel (bent rods and cracked receiver heels).
.
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How old is that CMP pamphlet?

The AR15 pamphlet from Colt also use to say that the rifle was self-cleaning long ago.
.
Here is a video by Ian and Karl on the commercial ammo issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_F1riBth8
View Quote
Yep that good old junk video full of misinformation....the can't even get the details correct on the garand and ammo or the oprod then purposefully pick ammunition that is at the extremes to say...  "see commercial ammo is bad!"...

the fact is pretty much most of commercial ammo 180 and under is garand safe...keep your rifle properly lubed and you won't have any issues.
Link Posted: 10/22/2018 10:51:51 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yep that good old junk video full of misinformation....the can't even get the details correct on the garand and ammo or the oprod then purposefully pick ammunition that is at the extremes to say...  "see commercial ammo is bad!"...

the fact is pretty much most of commercial ammo 180 and under is garand safe...keep your rifle properly lubed and you won't have any issues.
View Quote
did you read #2?

and saying just cause one video is junk then #2 does not really apply?

Garands were built around M2 ball or equivalent,  
meaning usually a load of 4895 or similar burn rate powder (in the pressure curve window),
147 is about the smallest weight round you will find in a .gov ammo, and 173 the heaviest (ball >>>Match) for 30.06

no of which applies to the OP's question, since a bolt gun can shoot anything
Link Posted: 10/22/2018 11:05:05 AM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:

Garands were built around M2 ball or equivalent,  
meaning usually a load of 4895 or similar burn rate powder (in the pressure curve window),
147 is about the smallest weight round you will find in a .gov ammo, and 173 the heaviest (ball >>>Match) for 30.06
View Quote
That is incorrect...
the garand was designed for ball, M1.  a ~174grn FMJ @2700FPS
Link Posted: 10/22/2018 1:11:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yep that good old junk video full of misinformation....the can't even get the details correct on the garand and ammo or the oprod then purposefully pick ammunition that is at the extremes to say...  "see commercial ammo is bad!"...

the fact is pretty much most of commercial ammo 180 and under is garand safe...keep your rifle properly lubed and you won't have any issues.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yep that good old junk video full of misinformation....the can't even get the details correct on the garand and ammo or the oprod then purposefully pick ammunition that is at the extremes to say...  "see commercial ammo is bad!"...

the fact is pretty much most of commercial ammo 180 and under is garand safe...keep your rifle properly lubed and you won't have any issues.


Where did you get your advice that keeping the gun lubed = all ammo under 180gr is safe?

Quoted:
That is incorrect...
the garand was designed for ball, M1.  a ~174grn FMJ @2700FPS
Initially, yes when the rifle was first developed and the first gas-trap model rolled out in 1937.

M1 Ball is post-WWI, M2 Ball was 1938.

The Garand as we know it was put into service in 1940 when the early gas-trap model was dropped.

While M1 Ball and M2 Ball is correct, the rifle was ultimately in service with M2 Ball.
Link Posted: 10/22/2018 3:40:44 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 10/22/2018 4:55:06 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 10/22/2018 6:44:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Where did you get your advice that keeping the gun lubed = all ammo under 180gr is safe?

Initially, yes when the rifle was first developed and the first gas-trap model rolled out in 1937.

M1 Ball is post-WWI, M2 Ball was 1938.

The Garand as we know it was put into service in 1940 when the early gas-trap model was dropped.

While M1 Ball and M2 Ball is correct, the rifle was ultimately in service with M2 Ball.
View Quote
because CMP says so... Jim Thompson says so and he even confirmed this while shooting heavy 220grn loads.

The garand as "we know it" was still built around M1 Ball...M2 Ball was adopted in 1940...it wasn't available in large numbers until some time after that...M1 Ball was still in production and the beginning of WW2 was fought with mainly M1 Ball...in garands..  M2 AP was preferred for combat while Ball was primarily training.

But yes..to the OP..ANY 30cal ammo is fine for '03s.  M1 garands can use almost any commercial ammo out there.  Keep it well greased..
Link Posted: 10/22/2018 7:36:07 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
because CMP says so... Jim Thompson says so and he even confirmed this while shooting heavy 220grn loads.

M1 garands can use almost any commercial ammo out there.  Keep it well greased..
View Quote
You can also fire the G43/K43 with standard 8mm ammo...it will just batter the rifle and components until something gives. That's why they make an adjustable gas system for it now.

My point is just because the rifle CAN take the abuse, it doesn't make it good in the long run for service life.
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I also read about that test Jim Thompson performed. I don't see any real data about op rod speed or anything besides he decided to load up some high power ammo and shoot it.

Then he stripped the rifle of all lubricants and fired it, then was surprised when it malfunctioned.
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How about this...

Take your car to the race track and do multiple redline speed runs, then drain all the oil and try again.

Let me know how that goes because it's the same concept.  
Link Posted: 10/22/2018 9:53:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

You can also fire the G43/K43 with standard 8mm ammo...it will just batter the rifle and components until something gives. That's why they make an adjustable gas system for it now.

My point is just because the rifle CAN take the abuse, it doesn't make it good in the long run for service life.
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I also read about that test Jim Thompson performed. I don't see any real data about op rod speed or anything besides he decided to load up some high power ammo and shoot it.

Then he stripped the rifle of all lubricants and fired it, then was surprised when it malfunctioned.
.
.
How about this...

Take your car to the race track and do multiple redline speed runs, then drain all the oil and try again.

Let me know how that goes because it's the same concept.  
View Quote
Well yeah the G43 was over gassed from the bigging because it was a disposable rifle and had to function every time all the time...I built an adjustable gas piston for mine (brass lands about 6ft away) about 30 years ago and if the germans were designing it in peacetime I'm sure they would have done something similar as well.

Jims test was the point that a properly greased garand fired over 400 rounds of heavy 220grn loads with no issue...once he removed the lube...it wrecked the oprod in less than 20 rounds.  Hence lube is a key part of reducing friction and stress which is what bends the oprod....
Link Posted: 10/22/2018 10:14:36 PM EDT
[#24]
drifted off topic, you were warned.
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