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Link Posted: 8/7/2018 11:06:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/7/2018 11:49:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/7/2018 11:51:14 AM EST by fettesbrotde]
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Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
I honestly don't know. This NFA delay/denial is brand new stuff that I'm currently working through.
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Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By swampvol:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:

The fbi said it was not a firearms transaction so you couldn't appeal it to them. I took the position that since the fbi denied, the appeal was proper with them. One of my clients reported that the atf contacted him and asked for an additional document post filing of the lawsuit so I suspect the fbi has corrected his records
So, can we appeal abnormally long delays?

It says you can on their website for a typical firearm purchase delay.
I honestly don't know. This NFA delay/denial is brand new stuff that I'm currently working through.
Just for some FYI the ATF has told me that they can refuse processing or pushing the FBI on a "delay" as the "3 day rule" only applies to firearms under the Brady Act. Basically they're saying there's no requirement for them to follow the Brady Act (which established NICS...). If that were the case then there's no ground for them to be using NICS for NFA items either. They're making up their own rules really, and contradicting themselves.

I'd be interested to know who in the NFA Branch told them this (training, internal memos, etc.), because it had to come from above them.

In the meantime, the ATF sits back and waits to hear back from the FBI (or never hear from them), and we as the citizens have no remedy for a lengthy "delay" status - The FBI won't discuss it over the phone due to the Privacy Act, the ATF knows nothing, and not a single soul can cite regulation or law for these actions, nor give advice beyond "just wait". Basically, they operate with impunity, and its the king's men decreeing this rule or that rule, which cannot be questioned.

In that same line of thinking, I'm not sure why they think that background checks are even part of the NFA process. The 34 NFA doesn't mention background checks in the slightest. If they say its because NFA items meet the definition of a "firearm", then sure, I get it, but NICS is established for that already, at the point of sale, by an FFL who is the one actually performing the transfer. A delay or denial in that situation gives us some form of appeal or point of contact to resolve the issue.
Link Posted: 8/8/2018 8:34:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/8/2018 8:35:15 AM EST by swampvol]
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Just for some FYI the ATF has told me that they can refuse processing or pushing the FBI on a "delay" as the "3 day rule" only applies to firearms under the Brady Act. Basically they're saying there's no requirement for them to follow the Brady Act (which established NICS...). If that were the case then there's no ground for them to be using NICS for NFA items either. They're making up their own rules really, and contradicting themselves.

I'd be interested to know who in the NFA Branch told them this (training, internal memos, etc.), because it had to come from above them.

In the meantime, the ATF sits back and waits to hear back from the FBI (or never hear from them), and we as the citizens have no remedy for a lengthy "delay" status - The FBI won't discuss it over the phone due to the Privacy Act, the ATF knows nothing, and not a single soul can cite regulation or law for these actions, nor give advice beyond "just wait". Basically, they operate with impunity, and its the king's men decreeing this rule or that rule, which cannot be questioned.

In that same line of thinking, I'm not sure why they think that background checks are even part of the NFA process. The 34 NFA doesn't mention background checks in the slightest. If they say its because NFA items meet the definition of a "firearm", then sure, I get it, but NICS is established for that already, at the point of sale, by an FFL who is the one actually performing the transfer. A delay or denial in that situation gives us some form of appeal or point of contact to resolve the issue.
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So not only do they not play by the rules of the Brady Act, but theyre also denying us the NTN number needed to appeal FBI denials and lengthy delays?
Link Posted: 8/8/2018 8:37:42 AM EST
Called yesterday still pending FBI background check she said they can't give me anymore info and there is no estimate when it will be approved.

Link Posted: 8/8/2018 9:00:05 AM EST
@NoloContendere

I'm going to email my examiner and request my NTN number for an appeal through the FBI.

If/when she replies back that the FBI does not do appeals for NFA items, would it be ok for me to correct her and mention your lawsuit?
Link Posted: 8/8/2018 10:04:36 AM EST
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Originally Posted By swampvol:
So not only do they not play by the rules of the Brady Act, but theyre also denying us the NTN number needed to appeal FBI denials and lengthy delays?
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Originally Posted By swampvol:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Just for some FYI the ATF has told me that they can refuse processing or pushing the FBI on a "delay" as the "3 day rule" only applies to firearms under the Brady Act. Basically they're saying there's no requirement for them to follow the Brady Act (which established NICS...). If that were the case then there's no ground for them to be using NICS for NFA items either. They're making up their own rules really, and contradicting themselves.

I'd be interested to know who in the NFA Branch told them this (training, internal memos, etc.), because it had to come from above them.

In the meantime, the ATF sits back and waits to hear back from the FBI (or never hear from them), and we as the citizens have no remedy for a lengthy "delay" status - The FBI won't discuss it over the phone due to the Privacy Act, the ATF knows nothing, and not a single soul can cite regulation or law for these actions, nor give advice beyond "just wait". Basically, they operate with impunity, and its the king's men decreeing this rule or that rule, which cannot be questioned.

In that same line of thinking, I'm not sure why they think that background checks are even part of the NFA process. The 34 NFA doesn't mention background checks in the slightest. If they say its because NFA items meet the definition of a "firearm", then sure, I get it, but NICS is established for that already, at the point of sale, by an FFL who is the one actually performing the transfer. A delay or denial in that situation gives us some form of appeal or point of contact to resolve the issue.
So not only do they not play by the rules of the Brady Act, but theyre also denying us the NTN number needed to appeal FBI denials and lengthy delays?
They should give you the NTN. As mentioned, myself and others have gotten theirs. I dont know why some examiners are not providing them and it adds more to the ATF doing whatever the fuck they want.

For me, I submitted an appeal on the FBI website for the delay, which the FBI told me to do, and they said I will hear back in 5 business days... those 5 days are up tomorrow and I've heard nothing.

To add insult to injury I purchased 2 more firearms yesterday and passed the background check in less than 5 min....guess what my form 4 status still is?
Link Posted: 8/8/2018 10:31:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/8/2018 11:37:54 AM EST
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Perfect!

Thank you sir.
Link Posted: 8/8/2018 12:11:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
They should give you the NTN. As mentioned, myself and others have gotten theirs. I dont know why some examiners are not providing them and it adds more to the ATF doing whatever the fuck they want.

For me, I submitted an appeal on the FBI website for the delay, which the FBI told me to do, and they said I will hear back in 5 business days... those 5 days are up tomorrow and I've heard nothing.

To add insult to injury I purchased 2 more firearms yesterday and passed the background check in less than 5 min....guess what my form 4 status still is?
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Please keep us posted.
Link Posted: 8/8/2018 1:47:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jrpett:
Someone posted this link from ATF in subguns that says that the current average times for Form 1's in 6 months, and for form 4's it's 7 months.

https://www.atf.gov/about/docs/undefined/current-processing-times-atf-applications/download
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We know that. This thread is about people who go into a BGC black hole and don't get their stamps in anywhere near those timeframes
Link Posted: 8/8/2018 2:17:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/8/2018 2:19:50 PM EST by DaveP1]
I have never seen any reason given for the FBI BGC delays that made any sense. A friend of mine got put in the black hole and he has a Voluntary Appeal File (VAF) with NICS and they told him that didn't help them at all, it still took him over a year to get his stamp! Like others he has purchased guns at the local gun store and passed with flying colors in 5 minutes while they dicked around for over a year.
Link Posted: 8/8/2018 3:05:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
They should give you the NTN. As mentioned, myself and others have gotten theirs. I dont know why some examiners are not providing them and it adds more to the ATF doing whatever the fuck they want.

For me, I submitted an appeal on the FBI website for the delay, which the FBI told me to do, and they said I will hear back in 5 business days... those 5 days are up tomorrow and I've heard nothing.

To add insult to injury I purchased 2 more firearms yesterday and passed the background check in less than 5 min....guess what my form 4 status still is?
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@fettesbrotde

Did you send in another set of prints with the appeal, or just fill out the form?
Link Posted: 8/8/2018 4:01:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/8/2018 4:03:46 PM EST by fettesbrotde]
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Originally Posted By swampvol:
@fettesbrotde

Did you send in another set of prints with the appeal, or just fill out the form?
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Originally Posted By swampvol:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
They should give you the NTN. As mentioned, myself and others have gotten theirs. I dont know why some examiners are not providing them and it adds more to the ATF doing whatever the fuck they want.

For me, I submitted an appeal on the FBI website for the delay, which the FBI told me to do, and they said I will hear back in 5 business days... those 5 days are up tomorrow and I've heard nothing.

To add insult to injury I purchased 2 more firearms yesterday and passed the background check in less than 5 min....guess what my form 4 status still is?
@fettesbrotde

Did you send in another set of prints with the appeal, or just fill out the form?
The FBI person I spoke with last week said no reason to send prints when appealing a delay, and that if they need them they will ask for them.

I specifically stated that fingerprint cards were sent with my NFA paperwork and they didn't know anything about it but said just to start by filling out the appeal form and waiting to hear from them (I don't think the ATF sends these to the FBI anyways - I think they are simply part of the application as required by the 34 NFA law).

For laughs, the guy didn't sound like I was the only one to call about this though . He stated they were getting more and more calls and wasn't sure why the ATF was sending people their way . I know I'm not the only one from Dec who has been stuck in delay for a couple months.

Let's see what I hear, if anything, by COB tomorrow. I'm not hopeful.
Link Posted: 8/8/2018 4:12:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/8/2018 4:21:06 PM EST by jrpett]
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Originally Posted By Effenpig:

We know that. This thread is about people who go into a BGC black hole and don't get their stamps in anywhere near those timeframes
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Sorry, was just trying to post something useful. Do us both a favor, please put me on ignore so I don't bother you with information that you already know.
Link Posted: 8/8/2018 5:34:10 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jrpett:

Sorry, was just trying to post something useful. Do us both a favor, please put me on ignore so I don't bother you with information that you already know.
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Don't take it to seriously, we have discussed these subjects so often it has become redundant several times over.
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 5:44:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2018 5:45:08 PM EST by fettesbrotde]
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
The FBI person I spoke with last week said no reason to send prints when appealing a delay, and that if they need them they will ask for them.

I specifically stated that fingerprint cards were sent with my NFA paperwork and they didn't know anything about it but said just to start by filling out the appeal form and waiting to hear from them (I don't think the ATF sends these to the FBI anyways - I think they are simply part of the application as required by the 34 NFA law).

For laughs, the guy didn't sound like I was the only one to call about this though . He stated they were getting more and more calls and wasn't sure why the ATF was sending people their way . I know I'm not the only one from Dec who has been stuck in delay for a couple months.

Let's see what I hear, if anything, by COB tomorrow. I'm not hopeful.
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Originally Posted By swampvol:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
They should give you the NTN. As mentioned, myself and others have gotten theirs. I dont know why some examiners are not providing them and it adds more to the ATF doing whatever the fuck they want.

For me, I submitted an appeal on the FBI website for the delay, which the FBI told me to do, and they said I will hear back in 5 business days... those 5 days are up tomorrow and I've heard nothing.

To add insult to injury I purchased 2 more firearms yesterday and passed the background check in less than 5 min....guess what my form 4 status still is?
@fettesbrotde

Did you send in another set of prints with the appeal, or just fill out the form?
The FBI person I spoke with last week said no reason to send prints when appealing a delay, and that if they need them they will ask for them.

I specifically stated that fingerprint cards were sent with my NFA paperwork and they didn't know anything about it but said just to start by filling out the appeal form and waiting to hear from them (I don't think the ATF sends these to the FBI anyways - I think they are simply part of the application as required by the 34 NFA law).

For laughs, the guy didn't sound like I was the only one to call about this though . He stated they were getting more and more calls and wasn't sure why the ATF was sending people their way . I know I'm not the only one from Dec who has been stuck in delay for a couple months.

Let's see what I hear, if anything, by COB tomorrow. I'm not hopeful.
Update: Business day 5 has come and gone - no response from the FBI despite them saying both on the phone and on the online appeal form that they respond within 5 business days.

Real shocker there. Basically no one is following the law, doing what they want, and being completely unaccountable for it
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 6:14:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2018 6:23:41 PM EST by swampvol]
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Update: Business day 5 has come and gone - no response from the FBI despite them saying both on the phone and on the online appeal form that they respond within 5 business days.

Real shocker there. Basically no one is following the law, doing what they want, and being completely unaccountable for it
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Yep.

Emailed my examiner mid-day yesterday requesting my NTN# and haven't heard back.

Giving her until Monday, then I will call and ask for her supervisor. I really don't care anymore who I piss off.

@fettesbrotde

Would you mind sharing the phone number you used to call the FBI?
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 6:42:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2018 6:45:34 PM EST by fettesbrotde]
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Originally Posted By swampvol:
Yep.

Emailed my examiner mid-day yesterday requesting my NTN# and haven't heard back.

Giving her until Monday, then I will call and ask for her supervisor. I really don't care anymore who I piss off.

@fettesbrotde

Would you mind sharing the phone number you used to call the FBI?
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Originally Posted By swampvol:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Update: Business day 5 has come and gone - no response from the FBI despite them saying both on the phone and on the online appeal form that they respond within 5 business days.

Real shocker there. Basically no one is following the law, doing what they want, and being completely unaccountable for it
Yep.

Emailed my examiner mid-day yesterday requesting my NTN# and haven't heard back.

Giving her until Monday, then I will call and ask for her supervisor. I really don't care anymore who I piss off.

@fettesbrotde

Would you mind sharing the phone number you used to call the FBI?
Just the generic NICS customer support number (877-FBI-NICS), that's supposedly only for FFLs... like you I didnt care who I pissed off anymore and I asked around until I got the answer by a polite guy to do the online appeal form. Like I said, he sounded completely aware of these issues.

I don't know what to say anymore, short of suing, I think I've exhausted all reasonable options to see why theres a delay and why it hasn't been processed. Also, the FBI is supposed to delete any NICS transactions after 88 days, and that's coming up shortly for me, so it seems they're skirting all time limitations and responsibilities.
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 7:00:38 PM EST
I even mention the purging the FBI does after 88 days in my email to my examiner.

I'm at roughly 185 days under BGC.

This is starting to become more of a matter of principle to me than it is me just wanting the damn can.
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 7:25:06 PM EST
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Originally Posted By swampvol:
I even mention the purging the FBI does after 88 days in my email to my examiner.

I'm at roughly 185 days under BGC.

This is starting to become more of a matter of principle to me than it is me just wanting the damn can.
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If I were you, I would first submit for an electronic FBI history summary, it costs only $18 and takes less than a week to get the results back. This will ensure that you are not a prohibited person as far as criminal history is concerned, this is the exact same info that is utilized by NICS, then email a copy of the results to your ATF examiner and ask them what the holdup is. Here is the link:

https://www.edo.cjis.gov/#/
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 7:58:23 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Mike_Anthony:

If I were you, I would first submit for an electronic FBI history summary, it costs only $18 and takes less than a week to get the results back. This will ensure that you are not a prohibited person as far as criminal history is concerned, this is the exact same info that is utilized by NICS, then email a copy of the results to your ATF examiner and ask them what the holdup is. Here is the link:

https://www.edo.cjis.gov/#/
View Quote
I may just do that. Thank you.

I've been delayed on firearm purchases before, but never denied. Two years ago I had to go through an FBI background check to obtain my State Conceal Carry permit, and there were no issues.

I had a DUI back around 1990, but that's about it.
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 9:01:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2018 9:02:23 PM EST by NoloContendere]
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 10:09:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
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Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Originally Posted By swampvol:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Update: Business day 5 has come and gone - no response from the FBI despite them saying both on the phone and on the online appeal form that they respond within 5 business days.

Real shocker there. Basically no one is following the law, doing what they want, and being completely unaccountable for it
Yep.

Emailed my examiner mid-day yesterday requesting my NTN# and haven't heard back.

Giving her until Monday, then I will call and ask for her supervisor. I really don't care anymore who I piss off.

@fettesbrotde

Would you mind sharing the phone number you used to call the FBI?
Just the generic NICS customer support number (877-FBI-NICS), that's supposedly only for FFLs... like you I didnt care who I pissed off anymore and I asked around until I got the answer by a polite guy to do the online appeal form. Like I said, he sounded completely aware of these issues.

I don't know what to say anymore, short of suing, I think I've exhausted all reasonable options to see why theres a delay and why it hasn't been processed. Also, the FBI is supposed to delete any NICS transactions after 88 days, and that's coming up shortly for me, so it seems they're skirting all time limitations and responsibilities.
"short of suing"......honestly, this is the best way to go. For those who really want to get the ball rolling in your favor, I would highly recommend contacting Nolo. I am confident that there are many more gun owners who are struggling through this same background check dilemma, they just aren't posting about their experiences here. Nolo has already won these types of cases, and as far as I am aware, is the only attorney to take the NICS issues to the FBI, and he has consistently achieved positive results.....if I ever have an issue, he is the man I plan on going to.
Link Posted: 8/10/2018 8:05:09 PM EST
Well what do you know, got a letter in the mail from the FBI today with the appeal request. It states:

Dear Mr. Fettesbrotde

This letter is in response to your appeal inquiry. Unfortunately, the appeal services team of the FBI Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Division's NICS section does not process appeal requests for the NFA background checks.

For questions regarding your NFA background check, you may wish to call the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives at 304-616-4500. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

NICS Section
CJIS Division
View Quote
So, here we have a blatant admission that the FBI does not process appeal requests for NFA background checks... despite having an NTN (NICS Transaction Number).

This just gets more retarded by the day. Basically what I've assumed is now official.
Link Posted: 8/10/2018 8:05:39 PM EST
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Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
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Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Originally Posted By swampvol:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Update: Business day 5 has come and gone - no response from the FBI despite them saying both on the phone and on the online appeal form that they respond within 5 business days.

Real shocker there. Basically no one is following the law, doing what they want, and being completely unaccountable for it
Yep.

Emailed my examiner mid-day yesterday requesting my NTN# and haven't heard back.

Giving her until Monday, then I will call and ask for her supervisor. I really don't care anymore who I piss off.

@fettesbrotde

Would you mind sharing the phone number you used to call the FBI?
Just the generic NICS customer support number (877-FBI-NICS), that's supposedly only for FFLs... like you I didnt care who I pissed off anymore and I asked around until I got the answer by a polite guy to do the online appeal form. Like I said, he sounded completely aware of these issues.

I don't know what to say anymore, short of suing, I think I've exhausted all reasonable options to see why theres a delay and why it hasn't been processed. Also, the FBI is supposed to delete any NICS transactions after 88 days, and that's coming up shortly for me, so it seems they're skirting all time limitations and responsibilities.
@NoloContendere How you doin?
Link Posted: 8/10/2018 8:07:01 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/10/2018 8:29:43 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Well what do you know, got a letter in the mail from the FBI today with the appeal request. It states:

So, here we have a blatant admission that the FBI does not process appeal requests for NFA background checks... despite having an NTN (NICS Transaction Number).

This just gets more retarded by the day. Basically what I've assumed is now official.
View Quote
Good grief.

Still haven't heard back from my examiner about her giving me my NTN#. Appears to be pointless now.
Link Posted: 8/11/2018 7:05:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/11/2018 1:19:03 PM EST
Do you want civil unrest?

Because this is how you get civil unrest.
Link Posted: 8/11/2018 1:49:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/11/2018 1:56:32 PM EST by fettesbrotde]
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Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Well what do you know, got a letter in the mail from the FBI today with the appeal request. It states:

Dear Mr. Fettesbrotde

This letter is in response to your appeal inquiry. Unfortunately, the appeal services team of the FBI Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Division's NICS section does not process appeal requests for the NFA background checks.

For questions regarding your NFA background check, you may wish to call the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives at 304-616-4500. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

NICS Section
CJIS Division
So, here we have a blatant admission that the FBI does not process appeal requests for NFA background checks... despite having an NTN (NICS Transaction Number).

This just gets more retarded by the day. Basically what I've assumed is now official.
http://www.sdslaw.us/single-post/2018/06/25/Denied-an-NFA-item-due-to-FBI-Background-check-Well
Yeah I know you have a lawsuit for this too, but the kicker is this isn't a denial I'm appealing - it's a delay.

So now we know they're not allowing appeals for both denials and delays. Essentially unless you're approved right off the bat you're denied any remedy to the problem, the gov doesn't care, and won't listen. They sure take your money quick though
Link Posted: 8/11/2018 4:06:26 PM EST
If they purge their records after 88 days, and your delay is past that, I'd say that would constitute a denial.
Link Posted: 8/11/2018 10:44:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swampvol:
If they purge their records after 88 days, and your delay is past that, I'd say that would constitute a denial.
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Obviously, they are not purging their records, my bgc took 5 months to complete.
Link Posted: 8/12/2018 9:03:41 AM EST
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Originally Posted By pbjunkiee:
Do you want civil unrest?

Because this is how you get civil unrest.
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I think if this becomes common knowledge you will see more one shot trusts among people who have no trouble passing the background check, and have friends who do have that issue. The law of unintended consequences.
Link Posted: 8/12/2018 9:11:33 AM EST
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Originally Posted By coltshorty14:
Obviously, they are not purging their records, my bgc took 5 months to complete.
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Originally Posted By coltshorty14:
Originally Posted By swampvol:
If they purge their records after 88 days, and your delay is past that, I'd say that would constitute a denial.
Obviously, they are not purging their records, my bgc took 5 months to complete.
I hit 5 months on the fourth of this month....
Link Posted: 8/12/2018 11:27:27 PM EST
I had 3 cans awaiting BG check as of May 7, 2018. 2 cleared and were approved on June 20th. One is still pending BG check. how does that happen? And, like others, I seem to have no options to try and get it moving.

have a couple more I submitted about 6 months ago. Will have to call soon and see if they're stuck in same state as well.
Link Posted: 8/13/2018 9:16:33 AM EST
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Originally Posted By m_later:
I had 3 cans awaiting BG check as of May 7, 2018. 2 cleared and were approved on June 20th. One is still pending BG check. how does that happen? And, like others, I seem to have no options to try and get it moving.

have a couple more I submitted about 6 months ago. Will have to call soon and see if they're stuck in same state as well.
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This is what I really just can't understand they already approved stamps why would one be pending. Like me I have a few stamps already but they are treating it like the first.
Link Posted: 8/16/2018 10:48:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/16/2018 12:23:37 PM EST
Called to check in again and also to ask about what day mine when into the pending background check hell and was told she didn't have that info. I did ask who my examiner was and she said it was Carrie and that was it. Does anyone have a email address for that examiner?
Link Posted: 8/16/2018 1:49:32 PM EST
Got a 12/13/17 and 1/8/18 checks cashed and still pending background check

last form 1 I had approved was 5 months mid last year.
Link Posted: 8/16/2018 3:50:07 PM EST
I'm also stuck on FBI background check

Form 4 Individual
Check cashed on 12-13-17
FBI background check

Now a friend of mine his Form 4 (Individual) check cashed on 12-12-17 and was approved 6-8-2019.
Link Posted: 8/17/2018 8:04:50 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DaveP1:
I have never seen any reason given for the FBI BGC delays that made any sense. A friend of mine got put in the black hole and he has a Voluntary Appeal File (VAF) with NICS and they told him that didn't help them at all, it still took him over a year to get his stamp! Like others he has purchased guns at the local gun store and passed with flying colors in 5 minutes while they dicked around for over a year.
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If you have a UPIN, you need to include a cover letter with the Form 4 submission saying you have one, and what it is for. The NFA branch was (and may still be) unaware/untrained on what UPINs are.

As for the excessive waits for BGCs, I've had 4 customers that went through them so far, and they all take around 440-490 days from check cashed to date approved. If you suspect you're in this "penalty box", and want to know when it might come back if you do nothing, there you go.
Link Posted: 8/17/2018 10:52:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2018 10:54:47 PM EST by DaveP1]
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Originally Posted By movingalong:

If you have a UPIN, you need to include a cover letter with the Form 4 submission saying you have one, and what it is for. The NFA branch was (and may still be) unaware/untrained on what UPINs are.

As for the excessive waits for BGCs, I've had 4 customers that went through them so far, and they all take around 440-490 days from check cashed to date approved. If you suspect you're in this "penalty box", and want to know when it might come back if you do nothing, there you go.
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Cover Letter was wrote, because I help him write it, I took his prints and helped him with his paperwork. I have done this for quite a few of my friends and customers.

After being an FFL for a number of years, I have seen them do a lot of strange things.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 11:06:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2018 11:09:21 PM EST by krdt]
Well, looks like the background check blackhole has claimed another victim :\.

I called today and my Form 4 (individual) has now been stuck awaiting BGC since June, 28th. My Form 1 is also in the same predicament, although I'd need to call back to verify the F1 status (grabbed the wrong folder and didn't have my serial handy when I called to check the F4).

F4 Individual (Surefire SOCOM RC)
11/28/17 - Check Cashed (265 days)
05/18/18 - Pending
06/28/18 - Awaiting BGC
08/20/18 - Awaiting BGC

F1 Individual (SBR)
01/17/18 - Check Cashed (215 days)
06/28/18 - Awaiting BGC

When I tried to confirm exactly when I had entered the BGC status, the girl I spoke to at the NFA Branch (Brittany I think) said something along the lines of, "Lots of people are seeing their background checks take several months." There was also something about the FBI being backed up and that they couldn't estimate when I might expect an answer. Basically, no useful information - with the general gist being that this wasn't out of the ordinary.

I suppose my next step is to speak to my examiner and maybe get my NTN#. Also considering contacting my representatives and see if that does anything.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 11:59:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2018 11:59:32 PM EST by movingalong]
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Originally Posted By krdt:
Well, looks like the background check blackhole has claimed another victim :\.

I called today and my Form 4 (individual) has now been stuck awaiting BGC since June, 28th. My Form 1 is also in the same predicament, although I'd need to call back to verify the F1 status (grabbed the wrong folder and didn't have my serial handy when I called to check the F4).

F4 Individual (Surefire SOCOM RC)
11/28/17 - Check Cashed (265 days)
05/18/18 - Pending
06/28/18 - Awaiting BGC
08/20/18 - Awaiting BGC

F1 Individual (SBR)
01/17/18 - Check Cashed (215 days)
06/28/18 - Awaiting BGC

When I tried to confirm exactly when I had entered the BGC status, the girl I spoke to at the NFA Branch (Brittany I think) said something along the lines of, "Lots of people are seeing their background checks take several months." There was also something about the FBI being backed up and that they couldn't estimate when I might expect an answer. Basically, no useful information - with the general gist being that this wasn't out of the ordinary.

I suppose my next step is to speak to my examiner and maybe get my NTN#. Also considering contacting my representatives and see if that does anything.
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I highly suggest calling every 2-3 weeks. The reason is what could happen is that when one of them is approved (probably the older one, the Form 4), you can have the other form piggy back on the same BGC if the BGC result is less than 30 days old. I was told this by another customer who had 2 forms in the BGC hole, and got the newer one approved along with the older form after talking with the folks in NFA branch. I think when you get past 6-7 months, they tend to want to get things approved even if it is "out of order". Not saying they would do the same for you, but worth trying.
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 1:57:54 AM EST
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Originally Posted By movingalong:
I highly suggest calling every 2-3 weeks. The reason is what could happen is that when one of them is approved (probably the older one, the Form 4), you can have the other form piggy back on the same BGC if the BGC result is less than 30 days old. I was told this by another customer who had 2 forms in the BGC hole, and got the newer one approved along with the older form after talking with the folks in NFA branch. I think when you get past 6-7 months, they tend to want to get things approved even if it is "out of order". Not saying they would do the same for you, but worth trying.
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Originally Posted By movingalong:
Originally Posted By krdt:
Well, looks like the background check blackhole has claimed another victim :\.

I called today and my Form 4 (individual) has now been stuck awaiting BGC since June, 28th. My Form 1 is also in the same predicament, although I'd need to call back to verify the F1 status (grabbed the wrong folder and didn't have my serial handy when I called to check the F4).

F4 Individual (Surefire SOCOM RC)
11/28/17 - Check Cashed (265 days)
05/18/18 - Pending
06/28/18 - Awaiting BGC
08/20/18 - Awaiting BGC

F1 Individual (SBR)
01/17/18 - Check Cashed (215 days)
06/28/18 - Awaiting BGC

When I tried to confirm exactly when I had entered the BGC status, the girl I spoke to at the NFA Branch (Brittany I think) said something along the lines of, "Lots of people are seeing their background checks take several months." There was also something about the FBI being backed up and that they couldn't estimate when I might expect an answer. Basically, no useful information - with the general gist being that this wasn't out of the ordinary.

I suppose my next step is to speak to my examiner and maybe get my NTN#. Also considering contacting my representatives and see if that does anything.
I highly suggest calling every 2-3 weeks. The reason is what could happen is that when one of them is approved (probably the older one, the Form 4), you can have the other form piggy back on the same BGC if the BGC result is less than 30 days old. I was told this by another customer who had 2 forms in the BGC hole, and got the newer one approved along with the older form after talking with the folks in NFA branch. I think when you get past 6-7 months, they tend to want to get things approved even if it is "out of order". Not saying they would do the same for you, but worth trying.
That's what I am hoping for - that if I get one approved the other could go through with the same NTN (especially since they are both at the same BGC status). Now that I realize I'm having the same BGC issue as others, I'll definitely start calling more regularly. To be honest, when I first received the BGC status I kinda avoided calling in hopes that it wasn't going to be an issue; thinking that if I just waited a little while longer, the next status would be approved. Well, that didn't work out so great. I was in a bit of denial there, lol.
Link Posted: 8/22/2018 9:13:52 PM EST
FWIW, I have one that went pending 10/30/17, that my examiner told me went Pending FBI check on 4/11/18.

I got a return call from her today after my follow-up phone calls And was informed that she had checked with the FBI, and that they were currently processing background checks from 4/1. She said to check back in a couple weeks, and that they usually receive the list from the FBI on Mondays. Since she was exceptionally nice, I went ahead and asked about a couple others that I knew I had pending. The first one was at FBI also, and had coincidentally been assigned to her. She told me that as soon as I was approved on the first, to call and remind her about the second and she'd clear it as well. So- I got that going for me, which is nice.
Link Posted: 8/23/2018 10:44:18 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Mtnvalley3:
FWIW, I have one that went pending 10/30/17, that my examiner told me went Pending FBI check on 4/11/18.

I got a return call from her today after my follow-up phone calls And was informed that she had checked with the FBI, and that they were currently processing background checks from 4/1. She said to check back in a couple weeks, and that they usually receive the list from the FBI on Mondays. Since she was exceptionally nice, I went ahead and asked about a couple others that I knew I had pending. The first one was at FBI also, and had coincidentally been assigned to her. She told me that as soon as I was approved on the first, to call and remind her about the second and she'd clear it as well. So- I got that going for me, which is nice.
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Which is also bullshit, because there's quite a few people who have had Form 1s approved that were submitted AFTER 4/1.

I've seriously come to the conclusion the ATF / FBI are stalling on Form 4s for a reason - we just don't know that reason yet.
Link Posted: 8/23/2018 7:02:38 PM EST
Today is my one year anniversary of the check being cashed, and going on 8 months BGC.

Their inconsistency and sense of individual power is mind blowing.

My examiner still refuses to give me my NTN#. I am now waiting on her supervisor to respond back to me. Yeah right.

These liars are never held accountable and wouldn't last a day in the private sector.

Next step now is for me to attempt to articulate a letter to my representative.
Link Posted: 8/23/2018 7:25:32 PM EST
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Originally Posted By swampvol:
Today is my one year anniversary of the check being cashed, and going on 8 months BGC.

Their inconsistency and sense of individual power is mind blowing.

My examiner still refuses to give me my NTN#. I am now waiting on her supervisor to respond back to me. Yeah right.

These liars are never held accountable and wouldn't last a day in the private sector.

Next step now is for me to attempt to articulate a letter to my representative.
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Damn that sucks to hear guess I'm screwed till at least December (my cashed month)
Link Posted: 8/23/2018 7:36:56 PM EST
I've been waiting 7 months on my form 1 SBS. It's my 7th one so its not like they don't know about me.
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