Todd doesnt want this hot potato. Did you see how mad the one guy got about the Bushwhacker blast baffle change? Everyone has fomo now and will want recores for free to gain 2 db in performance.

There is the possibility that he was not aware the version he was testing was old until he had already tested it.  Externally, they are very similar.

Yeeaahhh... but I've kind of addressed it before so I'll go over it again.  And I'll also address this up front, that we don't have an upgrade program for this.  We're incredibly careful about not releasing a new version until people have had it hand for a while, with several ATF approval cycles having occurred. We also had several months of no production occurring before we even began production on the new design.  Remember the end 2019 when everyone was complaining how you couldn't find a Nomad-30?  We had stopped production and were letting the old stuff sell through distribution so we weren't launching an improved product while wholesalers and dealers were sitting there looking at outdated inventories.  That's a douche move.  

So, with that said, the original Nomad-30 had the baffles randomized to some degree.  We did this because:

A) It worked well with the process capabilities of the manufacturing floor at the time, and...
B) This is a very efficient baffle system (7 of them outperform what others are doing with 9-12) and we didn't want any adverse "push" on the bullet.  When clips are aligned on certain types of baffles you can have some serious issues.  I know SiCo did a video on theirs being aligned and how well it improved performance, but note that theirs is an "over-optimized" stack, meaning the cones are so close together that they require the series to be long enough to make it work.  The clip in one baffle doesn't just vent into the next chamber.  It vents into the next 2-3 chambers.  You lose efficiency a few percent on each baffle, but in the end if you add on several baffles because you have the space available, you end up with a net gain in performance.  Note that this type of arrangement is not super for blowback, though.  

So, we played it safe and the accuracy and precision (they're two separate things) were golden across the board.  Over 2018-2019, we were testing it on different host weapons and calibers and decided we could align the baffles without any undue stress on the bullet.  With the move to KGM in 2020 we were able to change the design to allow for the aligned clips and also improved manufacturability. There are some ever-so-slight changes in baffles spacing, blast chamber volume, and the obvious tool feature improvements on the outside.  I think I never addressed it before, but we updated some wall thicknesses in the blast baffle and along the bore path to further deal with erosion concerns (Pappas was paranoid).

Regarding the tool features, when this was initially designed, people were mostly placing an adapter in a suppressor and leaving it. As such, we didn't make the features super robust.  Don't forget the SiCo Omega started out with no tool features at all.  We felt like we were ahead of the curve. Lol.  We quickly picked up on some customer service issues from people that continuously wrenched on their suppressors and we updated that.  If anyone has a Norcross, GA built Nomad and it has the low tool features, you got one of a handful of startup samples on the new machines but it still has the gen 2 stack.  

The Titanium versions are all based on the Gen 2 design, but are NOT just a material change.  There are a bunch of small differences in the baffle spacing, wall thicknesses, and reinforcing mechanical features in the baffles.  The Nomad-Ti is my favorite suppressor ever.  We planned on one small limited run to prove to Pappas how cool it could be.  After it was built, everyone's jaws hit the floor and it was decided up front to make it a catalog item.  If you haven't held one in your hand or shot it--you need to.  



I'm actually cool with this.  It'll be interesting for those customers that have the "Gen 1" Nomads.  Jay has also tested the -Ti variants and the -Long, so he's been pretty busy.  He's an independent reviewer and we didn't supply him these, so I figure I'd cut him some slack as he tries to find a current production Nomad-30 and the time to test it.  

Todd Magee
Dead Air Engineering

^ Thanks for posting all that interesting background.



Yeah, for the record, as someone who's owns an older Nomad, I don't think this test was a waste, and I appreciate Jay publishing the data.

Todd hit the nail on the head.

PEW Science is independent.  It is the source for unbiased, uninfluenced, technically correct, meaningful sound signature data.  The mandate of my company, when I started it, is to push the industry forward.

We can not afford to ignore technology that has significant market proliferation, nor can we afford to ignore design advancement and how it influences performance.  

You guys will see data for more Nomad(s), as Todd has indicated.  PEW Science has been in close communication with Dead Air, as we are with all silencer manufacturers prior to data release, to ensure the details of the products, the design intent, and the performance attributes are properly understood and characterized.

Thank you for your interest and your support!

Jay
PEW Science

Good to hear from everyone on this.  I am a paying member of PewScience, so it goes without saying that I support the platform.  Seems like the way to close the loop is to test the current production Nomad-30.

Lolz.  Notches for days!!

ETA:  And yes.  EVERYONE on this forum is "special".

Gen 1 Nomad owner here. I great to see Jay test one of my favorite cans. I’ve been pretty happy with mine. It’s been a great balance of suppression and size.

I do wonder if Gen 1 owners who get a bad baffle strike get a re-core with the Gen 2 core, or if that’s even possible?

Glad to see you find the data useful! It actually does, quantitatively, provide balance of sound suppression and size. The data is very clear!

I can't speak for Dead Air but whatever occurs, they'll probably do their best to assist you.

Jay
PEW Science

@TOOL1075

First of all I want to say thank you for the amazing work!  You're providing us with a wealth of valuable data!

I see that you have tested the YHM Resonator K as well as this Nomad30.  

Obviously they are on different ends of the spectrum, but I'm wondering about the Rex MG7k 308.  Will the MG7 fall closer to the YHM or the Nomad 30 for overall and at ear suppression, or somewhere in between?

I'm pretty sure this thread has convinced me to by a Nomad30 but I'm also thinking of a second can either the YHM or the MG7.  If the MG7 isn't that much quieter I'll probably go with the smaller YHM Resonator k.

Hello sir; apologies for the delayed reply.

I have not tested the Rex silencer. Given its design, I would postulate it would land in sound suppression levels in and around Rugged rifle silencers of similar length(s) in the supersonic flow regime. This is only an educated guess. It could be louder or quieter; I wouldn't expect it to perform like a Nomad, for example, due to the technology used. I'm sure I will test it eventually.

Jay
PEW Science

This guy is making me feel like I need another Nomad.  Probably the Ti flavor this time.

ETA:  Self-control has failed, bought an LT.  Beer had nothing to do with it...  nothing

Yeah, I'm kinda wanting a Nomad-TI now.

I wonder just how many nomads were bought in the past week

Probably close to a Surge in short mode, with a Rex .30cal. bore on .30cal bolt actions. One nice thing about Rex is you can choose two lengths, plus modular, in five different bore sizes.  Plus they will make custom-count stacks.  So characterizing what Rex offers is an exercise in combinatorics.

This graphic from the gentleman on Reddit is a good tool to see where various designs fall on a  20” .308 host.  Of course it helps to have a sense of the internals and proportions for each item, and road test exposure on similar host.

Attached File

Awesome stuff guys.  Thanks for the info.  

So cost differences aside the trade off for the light weight of the Nomad Ti would be adhering to the barrel length rating and firing schedule?

No problem at all thank you!

That chart is insanely useful. I mean no disrespect to Jay, but I don't want a wall of text that takes 20 mins to read, and an hour to digest. I want a stupid simple infographic, exactly like that one.  Me caveman.  

Thank you for reposting.

Am familiar. But thanks.

Throughout history, there have been gross errors in the methods, rigor, usefulness, and presentation of small arm sound signature data.

As someone who sat through a lot of it, I can assure you that there is a method to my madness.

As the data continues to be published, further data reduction and summary metrics can and will be presented.

The magnitude of the effort is significant.

The user-generated chart above is an example of what consumers can do with good, meaningful data. As I explained on the podcast, I was happy to see someone look at the data like that, as I of course already do internally :)

We now have true objective silencer performance efficiency metrics, for the first time, in the history of small arms. This has literally never been quantified before. Physiological human inner ear response from true sound signatures, coupled with mass flow rate parameters.

There will be more to come :)

Jay
PEW Science

Pretty much that’s the deal with all titanium builds, although Thunderbeast has a design that is built to handle hard use and others may warranty failure under hard use.  Different materials can have a slightly different tone if you shoot them side by side, but otherwise you’d never notice. Lighter cans heat up faster but usually cool down faster.  If you use high magnification you’ll need to use a mirage cover at fewer shots.  But that’s true with lighter steel builds too.

cant wait to get my Naked LT out of jail

Serial #MADLT-1***

Mine is serial #MADLT-07**.

Paperwork was submitted in March, so probably five more months.

Tax stamp cleared on my Nomad 30 today!  Just picked it up!  Im ecstatic!

Put it on a M240B belt fed and warm it up, lol.  (Sarcasm).  

Seriously, congratulations on scoring a great general purpose rifle can.  Each new suppressor in the wild is one more antidote to Hollywood assassin mythology bullshit, secret squirrel eliteness, and hyper-rare criminal misuse of muzzle mufflers.

Appreciate it!  Will try and get out to shoot this weekend. I may have asked before, but I forgot the response.  Ok to shoot 7.62x39 out of it?

7.62x39 is fine as long as the threads are concentric and everything is aligned properly.

Absolutely
It’s a host issue not a cartridge issue at that point as Jaqu noted above

Awesome! What was the total wait time?

My stamp was cashed April 2 2021

SS kiosk Trust, 1RP

Tax stamp cashed late November, purchased late October.

Since there is already a thread here, I figured I would respond and tell you that I just published supersonic Nomad-Ti data.  It might need its own thread, but maybe not, since this is sort of topical.

I didn't want to leave you hanging, so I pushed this publication to the front-burner to round out the performance of the Nomad-30 series and show you exactly how the silencer performance has evolved through its life.

Review 6.44 - The Dead Air Nomad-Ti on supersonic .308 (20-in barrel, bolt action).

The previous Nomad-30 (1st Gen) review was a lower bound. This Nomad-Ti data is the upper bound of performance of the Nomad-30.

I hope you folks find the data useful! The .30 silencer space is getting very competitive.

Dead Air Nomad-Ti Supersonic .308 Sound Test Results (Today's review)

Dead Air Nomad-30 (1st Gen) Supersonic .308 Sound Test Results (Previous Review)

Jay
PEW Science

Thanks!

Wish they would release a k version

Dang good info! I have a nomad TI and i've been very happy with it. So much that I really want a Nomad LT now. Love the nomad series!

I am glad you find the information useful and informative!

I'm particularly proud of the data and analysis I published today. The comparisons with the Nomad-30 (1st Gen) and Nomad-Ti are so clean and so incredibly detailed from PEW-SOFT that I actually sat back and audibly gasped as I was doing the analysis.

This is only getting better. I'm pretty excited about this effort and what it is doing for the industry.

Jay
PEW Science

Thanks so much for the info on the Nomad - Ti Jay! What an impressive suppressor and it's amazing that the small differences between the Nomad-30 (gen1) and Nomad - Ti can make significant performance changes.

Would you be testing the newer gen of the Nomad 30 in the future? I also think the results of the Nomad-Ti would warrant it's own thread - I do foresee a lot of good input from the rest of the folks.

It was really interesting to see the lower back pressure plus better sound reduction with the Nomad-Ti.  Now I'm wondering how my Nomad-L stacks up.

That's impressive, thanks for posting!

I assume the Nomad Ti results will be on par with the newer Gen of the Nomad 30?

I can't wait to see some preliminary number of the L/LT...I think that will finally be what I need to see to decide which Nomad to order.

Are L results in the near future...?

No problem! It's a neat silencer, and it's neat to look at the differences, see how they influence performance, and how; and by how much!

I could start a new thread, but I do hesitate.  Perhaps this one is good for now because of the similarity in the Nomad(s).  I think a lot of the Nomad-Ti stuff applies to the latest Nomad-30.  Dead Air and I will talk more about that.  Whether or not I test the latest steel Nomad-30, I assume I will, but not at this immediate moment.  For now, I think it is safe for you to assume the performance is bounded by the two reviews.




It is very interesting!  The analysis was actually very lengthy; I really took a close look at it - I learn something new with every report.  Every silencer has a fingerprint.  The more you look at the data, the more you see similarities and behavior commonalities, and it allows you to be quite alert to things that are out of order or anomalous.  The QA/QC procedure for data reduction in high fidelity testing involving fast transients is significant.  This is why most people underestimate what it takes to evaluate a silencer sound signature.  The effort is not trivial.




Thank you.  I am particularly proud of this analysis.  I think the latest steel Nomad-30 performance in the supersonic flow regime should be bounded by what you see in the two Nomad reviews on my website, yes.  I postulate that is accurate.  Like I told the gentleman above, I need to discuss more with Dead Air too.  Todd and I will pow-wow.

I don't give ETAs, sorry. Right now I have some other stuff I need to look at first, and I know if I give an ETA on anything, it will set a precedent that I would rather not set :)


I am thrilled the data is helping the community at large.  Furthermore, I am thrilled that there are actually certain companies using my data to advance their designs.  The PEW Science plan is working.  We are raising the bar.  This is awesome.

Jay
PEW Science

I lol’d

Thought I post this deal here - only seems appropriate : )

https://www.triarcsystems.com/product/dead-air-nomad-30/

Don’t know who the vender is but right now it’s says they have 4 in stock nomads and 2 in stock nomad ti. I think both are priced at a smoking deal too!


@mikego_34 have you shot your out of NFA jail nomad yet? You using direct thread or an adapter?

I haven’t shot my Nomad yet.  Was planning on getting out this weekend but kiddo came down with a fever last night.  

I went with the xeno system - and Im using the xeno flash hider across my hosts (300 blk, 556, x39, chambered ARs).  I also have a Nomad L that just got approved on May 29th.  Will put them through their paces soon enough.

I reload too; so, Ill try to start optimizing a subsonic load for 300 blackout.  

Triarc is good to go. That's an awesome deal wow!