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Posted: 7/12/2011 9:54:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Sweet. Definitely picking some of this up to try when my Sparrow comes in. I don't even have a can for my .22 yet, but I did buy it (Buckmark) strictly to be a suppressor host. I'll eventually be getting an Osprey, and am seriously considering the Sparrow for my .22. That said, I may have to pick up a few boxes of this Gemtech ammo just for hell of it. 
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Posted: 7/13/2011 1:34:18 AM EDT
[#2]
The cases we ordered just showed up!
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Posted: 7/13/2011 3:58:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
The cases we ordered just showed up! @4:34AM? Damn, I like your brown truck driver... |
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Posted: 7/15/2011 5:47:03 AM EDT
[#4]
Holy shit this stuff is quiet.....
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Posted: 7/15/2011 7:27:28 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Holy shit this stuff is quiet..... Shooting out of??? I shot 50 rounds weds/thurs with four different hosts and two different cans and I can't tell the difference between Gemtech's ammo and CCI Standard Velocity. Still can't justify this round at $20 more per brick over CCI. Maybe my earmeter needs to be re-calibrated. |
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Posted: 7/15/2011 7:45:51 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Holy shit this stuff is quiet..... Shooting out of??? I shot 50 rounds weds/thurs with four different hosts and two different cans and I can't tell the difference between Gemtech's ammo and CCI Standard Velocity. Still can't justify this round at $20 more per brick over CCI. Maybe my earmeter needs to be re-calibrated. Subjective sounds are difficult to evaluate. The main advantage is a heavier projectile for better terminal ballistics and kinetic energy with only about a 25 fps decrease in velocity compared to CCI standard. However, this does make it a little further outside the transonic range. While there will not be an issue on most days, since the speed of sound is proportional to the square root of the absolute temperature, on a cold winter day the speed of sound will drop to around 1050-1070 fps. In the transonic region, one can get a ballistic crack even if the velocity is below Mach 1. This is due to the critical mach number where there is localized air velocity surrounding the bullet itself. Pilots will understand, as this same thing happens over a wing where the velocity of the air over the wing is greater than the plane's actual, velocity through the air. |
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Posted: 7/15/2011 8:22:24 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Holy shit this stuff is quiet..... Shooting out of??? I shot 50 rounds weds/thurs with four different hosts and two different cans and I can't tell the difference between Gemtech's ammo and CCI Standard Velocity. Still can't justify this round at $20 more per brick over CCI. Maybe my earmeter needs to be re-calibrated. Subjective sounds are difficult to evaluate. The main advantage is a heavier projectile for better terminal ballistics and kinetic energy with only about a 25 fps decrease in velocity compared to CCI standard. However, this does make it a little further outside the transonic range. While there will not be an issue on most days, since the speed of sound is proportional to the square root of the absolute temperature, on a cold winter day the speed of sound will drop to around 1050-1070 fps. In the transonic region, one can get a ballistic crack even if the velocity is below Mach 1. This is due to the critical mach number where there is localized air velocity surrounding the bullet itself. Pilots will understand, as this same thing happens over a wing where the velocity of the air over the wing is greater than the plane's actual, velocity through the air. It doesn't take a pilot to understand shooting a $45 brick of ammo over a $25 brick is more expensive when to the human ear it sounds the same. You're gonna have to come down on your prices if you want this sport to expand as there's a lot more readily available ammo at almost half the price. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Gemtech basher, I've got plenty of your products for only being in the game less than a year and I'm always ready to defend your hardware when the AAC lovers come out, but I had high hopes when I ordered your ammo and to tell you the truth, your physics explanation isn't gonna sell more ammo, price will. Btw, I'm a ATP, CFI/II/MEI and ground instructor so, I understand your explanation, but you've got to get real world if you want to keep on moving a ton of your 22 ammo. |
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Posted: 7/15/2011 9:16:39 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
It doesn't take a pilot to understand shooting a $45 brick of ammo over a $25 brick is more expensive when to the human ear it sounds the same...your physics explanation isn't gonna sell more ammo, price will. Btw, I'm a ATP, CFI/II/MEI and ground instructor so, I understand your explanation, but you've got to get real world if you want to keep on moving a ton of your 22 ammo. ***No offense taken from the feedback - the nice thing about .22lr is that there are a ton of flavors out there in the real world for everyone to have a favorite. Federal Premium Gold Medal UltraMatch is $1,600 a case. Aguila Triple-S is $5.19 a box of 50. GEMTECH SILENCER SUBSONIC is $4.79 a box of 50. And there's plenty of cheaper supersonic big-box ammo out there for certain - but there's also far more expensive rounds commonly available. It's important to note that we didn't set about to design a cheap, bulk-box .22lr round - there's simply no beating Wal-Mart at the commodity game. If you're looking for plinking rounds to toss down the pipe at Pepsi cans (an honorable Great American Tradition we heartily endorse!), get some Federal 550 bulk pack. But a race to the bottom of the price floor wasn't what we had as a goal. What we wanted a very consistent round. When doing either accuracy testing or suppressor metering, one would optimally want a reference ammunition that is consistent shot-to-shot, so results aren't skewed and takes out the variable of "Was that loud shot the ammo? Or the can?". However, using "match" ammunition can often be finicky in sporting firearms - jams aren't a good thing for testing (or fun shooting!) either. Standard deviation was a definite consideration - and we're glad to see it playing out. Guys that shoot a lot better than I ever will have been sending us really encouraging test targets and velocity results. (Below, a snippet pasted from some standard deviation results, shooting the GEMTECH ammo against some other brands - I'll fill in the specific types later, don't have that where I am now). RIFLE –––––––––––––––––––––––––––– HOST FIREARM:Ruger 7722 20 inch barrel AMMUNITION:GEMTECH SILENCER SUBSONIC 42 GRAIN 10 shot string 1 AverageVelocity 1024 FPS Standard deviation 11.4 10 shot string 2 Average Velocity 1036 Standard deviation 9.2 –––––––––––––– HOST FIREARM:Ruger 7722 20 inch barrel AMMUNITION:REMINGTON 10 shot string 1 AverageVelocity 1203 Standard deviation 85.7 10 shot string 2 AverageVelocity 1261 Standard deviation 19.8 –––––––––––––– HOST FIREARM:Ruger 7722 20 inch barrel AMMUNITION:PMC 10 shot string 1 AverageVelocity 1284 Standard deviation 9.6 10 shot string 2 AverageVelocity - Standard deviation - –––––––––––––– HOST FIREARM:Ruger 7722 20 inch barrel AMMUNITION:FEDERAL 10 shot string 1 Average Velocity 1284 Standard Deviation 14.4 10 shot string 2 Average Velocity 1288 Standard Deviation 21.8 –––––––––––––– –––––––––––––– PISTOL –––––––––––––––––––––––––––– HOST FIREARM:Ruger MKII 6 7/8 inch barrel AMMUNITION:GEMTECH SILENCER SUBSONIC 42 GRAIN 10 shot string 1 Average Velocity 955.9 Standard Deviation 11.9 10 shot string 2 Average Velocity 973.6 Standard deviation 12.8 –––––––––– HOST FIREARM:Ruger MKII 6 7/8 inch barrel AMMUNITION:REMINGTON 10 shot string 1 AverageVelocity 1137 Standard deviation 31.6 10 shot string 2 AverageVelocity 1147 Standard deviation 26.4 –––––––––––––– HOST FIREARM:Ruger MKII 6 7/8 inch barrel AMMUNITION:PMC 10 shot string 1 AverageVelocity 1129 Standard deviation 15.6 10 shot string 2 AverageVelocity 1123 Standard deviation 47 –––––––––––––– HOST FIREARM:Ruger MKII 6 7/8 inch barrel AMMUNITION:FEDERAL 10 shot string 1 Average Velocity 1158 Standard Deviation 20.8 10 shot string 2 Average Velocity 1157 Standard Deviation 22.3 ––––––––––- An admirable goal would be to have a "match" grade ammunition that functioned well and metered consistently in modern semi-auto firearms, with a very clean-burning powder and avoiding the overly-waxy lubes that dirties suppressors up prematurely. We don't claim that it's going to be the quiestest ammo - I'm sure there's some underpowered stuff that will fill that slot - but we do know that it's filling the above goals that many shooters wanted out of it. At $4.79 a box, the GEMTECH end product isn't supposed to compete with $17.99-a-box Eley Tenex, and it isn't supposed to compete with loose-pack cheap stuff - it's a unique product at a very fair price point for what it is: Mid-premium priced, stable, consistent, heavier projectile, clean, accurate, and reliable subsonic ammo for suppressor testing and shooting. Whatever you pull triggers on, have fun shooting! Kel TEAM GEMTECH GUY PS: If anyone's around Idaho Falls this weekend, we're supporting our dealer Ross Coin & Gun's Annual Range Day this Saturday - They've got a whole mess of firearms factory reps there tomorrow doing the show-shoot-and-tell, and we'll have tons of those orange bricks of subsonic goodness going downrange if anyone wants to check out some cans and have some fun! PPS: And hey –– it's .22lr. The difference between a brick of most "cheap" and "premium" .22 is lunch at McDonald's, not a car payment. :) Buy a case, see me at the range, I'll treat for a Big & Tasty and we can talk about how it shot.
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Posted: 7/15/2011 8:10:54 PM EDT
[#9]
This new ammo sounds too good to be true as you can have ten 22 rifles of the same brand with all the same make and length of barrels
and they will all give different groups shooting the same ammo. The only way you will get ammo that makes good groups is to try several brands in each 22 host until you find what that barrel likes. No such thing as a one brand and make of ammo that is accurate in all or most guns. |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 8:52:19 AM EDT
[#10]
So curiosity got the best of me and I ordered a brick. I recieved it thursday and went it shot some of it today. I compared it to my favs wolf match and cci standard velocity as well as aquila subsonic. The aquila is by far the quietest out of all of them with wolf as a close second. The only problem is it wont reliably cycle my 10/22, it does cycle fine in my sig p226 conversion, my ruger mk3 22/45, and spike dedicated upper. So I use wolf in those when I want quiet and standard velocity or federal bulk for just plinking.
Anyway I shot it side by side in all my host and it was the loudest to my ears along with the federal bulk. The cci standard is a tiny bit quieter, then the wolf, then the aquila quietest. It isnt any more accurate then the cci standard in my host and its louder. Ill stick with the cheaper cci stuff after my un scientific testing today. IMO dont waste your money.... |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:06:27 AM EDT
[#11]
I am curious why they went for just 2 grains heavier? I fail to see 2 more grains of lead making any difference at all downrange. I would have at least gone for 4 grains so I could at least claim "10% heavier" in advertising.
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Posted: 7/23/2011 5:07:20 PM EDT
[#12]
IMO too many dollars. drop price in half and i may try it.
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Posted: 7/30/2011 12:52:11 PM EDT
[#13]
I have been shooting nothing but Federal bulk pack through my Outback II. I have never ran any CCI std velocity through it. I think I will try some of the Gemtech.
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Posted: 8/3/2011 6:31:20 AM EDT
[#14]
Interesting, appears to be mfg'd by CCI. If that's the case, why not get plated projectiles if it's a custom load? I know a lot of folks have been wanting plated subs. I would be more inclined to try some if it was.
Example of CCI shipping cases. 
From here: http://buy.auctionarms.com/10263199/cci-blazer-22lr-22-rimfire-ammo-5000-rd-case-40gr |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 12:23:46 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Will this cycle a semi-auto with some consistency? (Mosquito, 45/22, 15-22) ***We had both S&W M&P1522 carbines and SIG 1911-22 pistols out on the line at the recent Hush Indiana Silencer Shoot: ran thousands and thousands of rounds of the GEMTECH SILENCER SUBSONIC ammo through them over the course of the day without any of the guns choking - speaking well for both the ammo and those host firearms! It should have a nice, tight groups but still function semi-autos well. Kel Kel, Why aren't they copper plated or copper clad? I never put lead bullets through my 22 suppressor. I only use copper covered lead bullets. Dane GEMTECH TEAM GUY http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/catalog/ammo_22_photobar_474_detail.gif |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 7:00:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
So curiosity got the best of me and I ordered a brick. I recieved it thursday and went it shot some of it today. I compared it to my favs wolf match and cci standard velocity as well as aquila subsonic. The aquila is by far the quietest out of all of them with wolf as a close second. The only problem is it wont reliably cycle my 10/22, it does cycle fine in my sig p226 conversion, my ruger mk3 22/45, and spike dedicated upper. So I use wolf in those when I want quiet and standard velocity or federal bulk for just plinking. Anyway I shot it side by side in all my host and it was the loudest to my ears along with the federal bulk. The cci standard is a tiny bit quieter, then the wolf, then the aquila quietest. It isnt any more accurate then the cci standard in my host and its louder. Ill stick with the cheaper cci stuff after my un scientific testing today. IMO dont waste your money.... If you want aquila subsonics (40 or 38) to run through a 10/22, you're probably going to have to clip the recoil spring a couple of coils. It is worth it though. Just buy a backup spring if you want to change out sometime. You can put the urethane buffer in the receiver in place of the back receiver pin to help on action thump when shooting standard velocity. Or, run Remington subsonics, they seem to cycle all the time for me in both 10/22 and 22/45. The specs for the gemtech ammo do seem a bit on the high side for subsonic, and you can always try CCI Subsonic for cycling issues. It seems to crank through everything I've run it in, but does have a good first round pop and sometimes goes sonic (it seems close to the envelope). Of course, they're all quieter with some water or wire pulling gel... |
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Posted: 8/10/2011 2:32:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So curiosity got the best of me and I ordered a brick. I recieved it thursday and went it shot some of it today. I compared it to my favs wolf match and cci standard velocity as well as aquila subsonic. The aquila is by far the quietest out of all of them with wolf as a close second. The only problem is it wont reliably cycle my 10/22, it does cycle fine in my sig p226 conversion, my ruger mk3 22/45, and spike dedicated upper. So I use wolf in those when I want quiet and standard velocity or federal bulk for just plinking. Anyway I shot it side by side in all my host and it was the loudest to my ears along with the federal bulk. The cci standard is a tiny bit quieter, then the wolf, then the aquila quietest. It isnt any more accurate then the cci standard in my host and its louder. Ill stick with the cheaper cci stuff after my un scientific testing today. IMO dont waste your money.... If you want aquila subsonics (40 or 38) to run through a 10/22, you're probably going to have to clip the recoil spring a couple of coils. It is worth it though. Just buy a backup spring if you want to change out sometime. You can put the urethane buffer in the receiver in place of the back receiver pin to help on action thump when shooting standard velocity. Or, run Remington subsonics, they seem to cycle all the time for me in both 10/22 and 22/45. The specs for the gemtech ammo do seem a bit on the high side for subsonic, and you can always try CCI Subsonic for cycling issues. It seems to crank through everything I've run it in, but does have a good first round pop and sometimes goes sonic (it seems close to the envelope). Of course, they're all quieter with some water or wire pulling gel... I do have a buffer in the 10/22 and it helps for sure. I have been thinking about experimenting with the spring on it but never got around to it. I shoot it a lot less then my dedicated ar and bolt action so just never was a big priority. The cci subsonic has always sounded louder to my ears then the standard and is more expensive I just quit buying it. I have also noticed it tends to go sonic more often in the winter time then the standard does as well. I want to chronograph it one day but im thinking its faster than the standard. I never really trust manufactures velocity numbers ive only found a select few that where the same as advertised. |
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Posted: 8/10/2011 3:18:12 PM EDT
[#18]
I for one support Gemtech's efforts in bringing a 22 round to market that is a bit more consistent with respect to velocity and shot to shot consistency. I tried for years to get CCI to make and market subsonic game killing loads like the SGB they make but in subsonic. They wouldn't and said there was no market for that. This is about as close as we can get to this right now. People will always bitch at the price if it costs a bit extra, but those people who want to can vote with their dollars and buy something else, but I am glad this ammo is available.
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