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Posted: 9/26/2017 12:31:08 AM EDT
I'm looking at getting my first muzzleloader, I want a side lock percussion I think specifically a Lyman deerstalker. I like the shortness and handiness of the short rifle. I plan on using it for plinking range fun as well as whitetail deer out to 100 yards or so. I live in the mountains so it's hard to get shots longer than that anyway.

They Lyman deerstalker has a 24" barrel and a 1:48 twist.

I like the idea of using mainly roundballs  as well as a few conicals, maxi's  

What about recoil difference between the .50 and .54?

Which would be a better purpose all around caliber?  Plinking / whitetail?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 1:46:32 AM EDT
[#1]
First, ignition source:
In Ohio I used to use percussion until 209 became the "thing".
I only own Flintlocks for PA Muzzle Loader season and they are wonderful to shoot as long as conditions are right.  
Other than my PA Flintlocks everything is 209 fired now and has never been a disappointment to me.
I have had issues with both cap and flintlocks igniting many times.
The percussion to me has a different "hit" during ignition versus the 209.
Do you like the look of percussion or is it needed because of your state? Just wondering

Second:
Shooting roundball, conicals, maxis and minnis will vary based on projectile weight, with a 1:48" twist everything mentioned should be fine.
Just have to find your sweet spot with the powder charge and different bullet weights. Some bullets will vary with "special" needs to an extent.
EX: My buddy still coats his rounds in beeswax and usually patches them over 80-85gr of FF.

Third:
.50 vs .54
For Whitetail .50 is more than enough IMO. I'd go as far as saying just about anything in the lower 48.
I have done some amazing destruction to decent sized PA Whitetails with .50cal Maxi before.
Besides shot placement is everything right?
I haven't looked at .54 stuff in a long time but .50 has an amazing selection of bullets over .54 from what I remember.
As far as recoil, my powder chargers weren't very far off from one another however the .54 did have a little more "umph" to it.
For plinking and Whitetail I'd stay with a .50.

Hope I helped a little
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 5:40:28 AM EDT
[#2]
I shoot a 54. The 54 has very few bullets available. Hornady Great Plains Bullet and Powerbelt are the only two I can think of. T/C discontinued all their 54 bullets.   There are a few custom people that still make Maxi bullets on the net.  

A stout charge and a heavy conical has a solid recoil. But I find it's not like a swift kick but more of a slow punch.   I haven't shot a 50 in awhile so I can't really compare.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 12:50:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
First, ignition source:
In Ohio I used to use percussion until 209 became the "thing".
I only own Flintlocks for PA Muzzle Loader season and they are wonderful to shoot as long as conditions are right.  
Other than my PA Flintlocks everything is 209 fired now and has never been a disappointment to me.
I have had issues with both cap and flintlocks igniting many times.
The percussion to me has a different "hit" during ignition versus the 209.
Do you like the look of percussion or is it needed because of your state? Just wondering

Second:
Shooting roundball, conicals, maxis and minnis will vary based on projectile weight, with a 1:48" twist everything mentioned should be fine.
Just have to find your sweet spot with the powder charge and different bullet weights. Some bullets will vary with "special" needs to an extent.
EX: My buddy still coats his rounds in beeswax and usually patches them over 80-85gr of FF.

Third:
.50 vs .54
For Whitetail .50 is more than enough IMO. I'd go as far as saying just about anything in the lower 48.
I have done some amazing destruction to decent sized PA Whitetails with .50cal Maxi before.
Besides shot placement is everything right?
I haven't looked at .54 stuff in a long time but .50 has an amazing selection of bullets over .54 from what I remember.
As far as recoil, my powder chargers weren't very far off from one another however the .54 did have a little more "umph" to it.
For plinking and Whitetail I'd stay with a .50.

Hope I helped a little
View Quote
No percussion isn't a state requirement, I just really like the look and style of the side locks. My best friend had a couple of both when we were growing up but I just never really liked the in lines that much.

I was leaning toward a 50  first then started second guessing that maybe the extra weight and size  of the 54 in a roundball would be better. But it looks like if you used maxi balls or maxi hunters for hunting in a 50 you gain quite a bit of bullet weight so maybe you wouldn't gain that much with a 54
I just like the idea of a patched round ball for some reason though
Link Posted: 10/13/2017 2:14:36 PM EDT
[#4]
I have used a .45 percussion with patched round balls and real black powder for 20 years.  I have taken many White Tail Deer and had tons of fun with it.  It is even possible to load it with a plastic shot cup and bird shot for birds and small furry critters.  I think my recommendation is obvious.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 11:11:18 AM EDT
[#5]
Own a .54 Renegade I built from a kit.  Great rifle.  Sorry bullet selection nowadays.  I'd go with a .50 or even .45 now if I did it over again.

That said, a .54 round ball is big, heavy and flattened out to about .75 caliber on the one I shot with it. Wish I could find it to show a picture.  Lost it some years back.  DRT
Link Posted: 10/29/2017 9:37:08 PM EDT
[#6]
The Deerstalker is a good choice. You can use round balls or conicals in a 1:48 twist; it's funny how some rifles will prefer a ball, and others will like the conicals better, given the same rate of twist.

I favor the .54 over the .50, but the recoil difference is negligible. Both will harvest deer just fine with either projectile choice. Bullet placement is ALWAYS key, so practice as much as you can in the off-season. The cool thing about muzzleloaders is that they're so easy to download for practice, and to upload for hunting.
Link Posted: 11/11/2017 8:10:22 AM EDT
[#7]
If you're shooting strictly round balls, a .54 is far superior to a .50.

If you are shooting Maxi balls or traditional Minnie balls, a .54 is still superior to a .50, but the .50 is still very capable.

Where the .50 really has an advantage over the .54 is if you are shooting sabot bullets.  They are not real traditional but they are very effective in a .50.

----

That said my favorite muzzle loader for hunting is a .58 caliber rifle musket - a Zouave or a 2 band Enfield - with a traditional minie ball in the 500-525 gr weight range.   They are very fast to load using a traditional paper cartridge made for that purpose (think of it as civil war era tactical speed loader), the percussion ignition is very reliable and the terminal performance is very impressive.

----

in terms of recoil, .50, .54 or .58, all of them are more of a "push" than a "whack" due to the velocities involved, with the .50 having more of a whack than push, and a .58 having more push than whack with the .54 pretty much in the middle.
Link Posted: 11/28/2017 12:07:58 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
in terms of recoil, .50, .54 or .58, all of them are more of a "push" than a "whack" due to the velocities involved, with the .50 having more of a whack than push, and a .58 having more push than whack with the .54 pretty much in the middle.
View Quote
When I went to Korea, had mamasan sew up a cap for me. NMLRA on the front and "It takes bigger balls to shoot a .58". The now Xwife hated it and I loved it all the more because of it.

My son now has that Morse repro .58.
Link Posted: 11/28/2017 8:58:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Well guys I ended up ordering a 50 Cal deerstalker for $299 on black Friday.

Thanks for the help!

I am a little overwhelmed with figuring out how to clean and maintain it. I have watched lots of youtube vids and got the Lyman black powder handbook.

Any tips would be appreciated!
Link Posted: 11/28/2017 10:05:57 PM EDT
[#10]
look here

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/

More help and information than you'll ever need

They helped me get started with flint guns and it is almost as bad as BRD
Link Posted: 1/3/2018 10:48:33 AM EDT
[#11]
One of the primary advantages of a muzzle loader where the barrel is retained by a hooked breech plug on one end and 1 or 2 wedges along the barrel is that the barrel can be quickly and easily removed from the stock and separated from the lock by removing the ram rod and the wedges.

This feature lets you remove the barrel for a thorough cleaning without getting water in the stock or lock.

The muzzle loader can be cleaned very effectively in this manner:

1) remove the barrel from the stock;
2) unscrew and remove the nipple and let it soak in a cup of hot soapy water;
3) fill a gallon bucket or similar container with hot soapy water (tap water as hot as it will get);
4) slowly run a patch on a suitable sized cleaning jag up and down the bore several times, which pumps the hot soapy water in and out of the bore through the hole for the nipple (if you pull or push too fast, you'll push excess water past the patch and make a large mess as the now dirty water is pushed out of the bore on the wrong side of the jag, you'll get some anyway, which is good as you want to ensure the bore is clean at the muzzle as well);
5) with the bore wet, use a bronze bore brush to loosen any harder fouling, and repeat the flush with hot soapy water several more times;
6) wipe down the outside of the barrel with hot soapy water and use a tooth brush or similar to brush the area around the breech end of the barrel to ensure any powder fouling on the exterior is removed, and neutralized;
7) refill the bucket with clean water, again as hot as you can get it, and use a clean patch on a jag to pump water in and out of the bore several times;
8) by this time the barrel as a whole should be hot enough that you' can't hold on to it for longer than a few seconds. Run a few dry patches down the bore to remove the water, and then let it dry.  The latent heat in the barrel will help any remaining water evaporate.

While the barrel is drying clean the nipple with a toothbrush and a pick and then rinse it or soak it in hot tap water, then dry it and set it aside to let the heat do the rest.  Then wipe/brush down the lock and breech plug with a black powder solvent to ensure any corrosive residue has been neutralized.  Dry and re-oil the surfaces - including the inside and outside of the nipple.   It's not necessary to remove the lock and breech plug every time, but it's a good idea to do so a couple times a year, and before putting the rifle up for storage over the winter.

Once the barrel has dried, clean it like you normally would any smokeless rifle barrel.   Use a powder solvent, first on a wet patch, then with a bronze bore brush to help remove any lead deposits, and then with wet and dry patches, to displace and remove any residual moisture and fouling that may have leached out of the barrel.  Then run an oiled patch down the bore.   Wipe down the out side of the barrel to replace the oil that will have been removed by the hot soapy water.

Since the corrosive salts in the powder residue can be driven into the barrel steel and will leach out over a few days, it's always a good idea to run an oiled patch down the bore a day or two after you've cleaned the bore to remove these salts and ensure the surface of the bore is well oiled to help prevent rust if any salts remain.

----

The next time you are ready to shoot, run a dry patch down the bore to remove the excess oil, and then fire a couple of caps before loading the rifle.  This will ensure the nipple is clear and will ensure reliable ignition.

-----

Alternatively you can skip the hot soapy water and just use a black powder solvent to clean the bore, but it takes longer and isn't any more effective.  You'll still want to follow up with a regular solvent and oil as those black powder solvents are water based, since it is water that does the neutralizing of the corrosive compounds.

Some folks recommend Windex as a bore cleaner, on the basis that the ammonia in the Windex neutralizes the corrosive salts.  That may well be true, but the water in the Windex is just as effective, and you might as well just use hot soapy water and save the Windex for the windows.

----

If you shoot corrosive primed ammo in your smokeless powder rifles, you'll find those same black powder solvents work great to remove the corrosive priming compounds.  I used them on the bores and in the gas systems of my AKM, SKS, and PSL and they do a great job of preventing rust.  Again, dry and oil the surfaces after you've cleaned them with the black powder solvent.
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 9:50:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Some folks recommend Windex as a bore cleaner, on the basis that the ammonia in the Windex neutralizes the corrosive salts.  That may well be true, but the water in the Windex is just as effective, and you might as well just use hot soapy water and save the Windex for the windows.
View Quote
Cut squares of Windex wipes in a heavy Ziploc make great field cleaning patches.
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