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Posted: 1/14/2019 6:51:53 AM EDT
Contemplating a new deer gun for next season. Straight wall only. Bolt gun or lever. I am considering Mossberg Patriot, Ruger American, or Marlin guide gun. I do reload.
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[#1]
The Guide gun gets lots of lovin on this site, i have 2 of them & agree they are great guns. Kill anything in North America with the 4570.
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[#2]
I built a 450 BM AR style rifle. I’ve only shot it once at a deer, and I killed that deer where she stood. I don’t have enough experience with it yet to compare it to the master race yet.
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[#3]
Quoted:
I built a 450 BM AR style rifle. I’ve only shot it once at a deer, and I killed that deer where she stood. I don’t have enough experience with it yet to compare it to the master race yet. View Quote |
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[#5]
I took my first two deer ever this year, both with a Marlin 1895 in .45-70. My hunting area (Coshocton county) gives me a max shooting range of about 45 yards. Both deer were shot at 40 yards, and dropped where they stood. I can't compare it to a .450BM, but I was extremely pleased with the performance of my Marlin with XS ghost ring sights.
ETA: Attached File |
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[#6]
Looking around at Prices, it looks like I can get into the .450 mossberg for around $350ish plus glass. The Guide guns seem to be found new or used in the $550 to $600 range if I shop around new or used. Ammo seems to be a wash price wise and both are easily available here.
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[#9]
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[#10]
Only reason for 450BM is in an AR. Was built around the constraints of that platform. In this case, I’d go 45-70
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[#12]
45/70 Lever Gun reloads easily put the 450BM to shame power wise.
2300fps would be easy with a 300gr bullet in the 45/70 Even better is a Remington 405 Cor-Lokt at 1800fps from a Marlin guide gun.... or a tougher 400gr. Once you feel the power of the 45/70 lever gun reloads... the 450BM seems,.... moderate. And if you want.... you can shoot factory ammo to match the 450BM, if you prefer the softer shooting 45/70. I have a Browning 1886 Carbine in 45/70.... it is one firearm I will never sell. The versatility reloading for 45/70 it is simply amazing. Lead loads subsonic if you'd like... clear up to the above mentioned loads... ( and even faster in a longer barrel.. ) As much as a 450BM sounds great... the 45/70 can trounce it with better bullets, and higher velocities. |
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[#13]
Quoted:
Looking around at Prices, it looks like I can get into the .450 mossberg for around $350ish plus glass. The Guide guns seem to be found new or used in the $550 to $600 range if I shop around new or used. Ammo seems to be a wash price wise and both are easily available here. View Quote The have an 18" with better scope for a bit more. |
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[#14]
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[#15]
Bullet choices are fairly limited for .450BM (IIRC), but there are a ton of bullets available for the master race.
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[#16]
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[#19]
Upper+sighting device is also an option. Strap it on the lower that you'll be shooting a box a year from...
That could keep cost down, but if you're really worried about cost, a simple 12ga and box of slugs will do. Or pick whatever gun floats your boat since the box/year ammo cost (especially when you reload) is negligible. Both will perform plenty on deer. The BM in its proper AR platform is a no brainer to me. Grab a 10rd (5.56) magazine for the low profile, its ready for choice of sighting device, most barrels should be threaded, so you can suppress it with no BS... you can also make it a pistol for an even more lightweight/compact gun. The 45/70 in a walnut/blue lever gun is the obvious choice if you want a classy, slick looking rifle though. |
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[#20]
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[#21]
Quoted:
Upper+sighting device is also an option. Strap it on the lower that you'll be shooting a box a year from... That could keep cost down, but if you're really worried about cost, a simple 12ga and box of slugs will do. Or pick whatever gun floats your boat since the box/year ammo cost (especially when you reload) is negligible. Both will perform plenty on deer. The BM in its proper AR platform is a no brainer to me. Grab a 10rd (5.56) magazine for the low profile, its ready for choice of sighting device, most barrels should be threaded, so you can suppress it with no BS... you can also make it a pistol for an even more lightweight/compact gun. The 45/70 in a walnut/blue lever gun is the obvious choice if you want a classy, slick looking rifle though. View Quote |
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[#22]
OP if your going lever gun then the obvious answer is 45/70.
That said if your thinking bolt-gun the new Rugers in 450 Bushmaster are getting good reviews. If you are a handloader you can push the 450 Bushmaster cartridge a bit beyond what an AR can handle. That action is a lot stronger than the the compromised bolt in a 450 Bushmaster AR. Also since Ruger is building the 450BM guns on a 308 length receiver the magazine box is longer and you are not restricted to the 2.260 inch OAL to fit in an AR magazine. This makes it easier to load some of the heavier bullets a little hotter since you can seat them a bit longer and run the pressure up a touch more. The guys over at 450Bushmaster.net have been doing some interesting things with the Ruger bolt-guns. |
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[#23]
450 Bushmaster in a scary semi auto Black Rifle and a 450 Marlin lever gun for traditionalist sakes. Same diameter bullet as well perfect for reloading.
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[#24]
Quoted:
450 Bushmaster in a scary semi auto Black Rifle and a 450 Marlin lever gun for traditionalist sakes. Same diameter bullet as well perfect for reloading. View Quote |
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[#25]
Quoted: My intention is to give my 20ga deer gun to my son and get myself something new. I know the lever gun is a buy once cry once thing, but I also have to consider that my last two deer were taken with crossbow in October. My thought is that if I make it to gun season, I want to give myself the greatest advantage practical. View Quote So down here, you're not getting a damn thing out of any particular gun shooting less than 75... obviously the 4570 has much greater capabilities, but can they actually be utilized? Not for me, nothing that a BM or slug wouldn't do. I'd say the BM is still a better choice out to 300, since the AR or bolt platform is going to be more inherently accurate than a lever, and be optics/can ready out or the box. Not that you can't mount stuff on a lever or that a proper tang sight is bad. So now, I suppose, the question(s) is do you actually want another AR, bolt, or lever? Do you plan to make trips to grizzly country or such in the near future (4570 or 12ga)? Do you actually have a hunting area where you can realize the advantages of the 4570? Do you or want to do something like CASS? Do you want a full rifle taking up space (opposed to an upper)? |
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[#26]
Quoted:
They are not the same bullet diameter. 450 Bushmaster uses .452-inch diameter bullets. 45/70 uses .458-inch diameter bullets. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
450 Bushmaster in a scary semi auto Black Rifle and a 450 Marlin lever gun for traditionalist sakes. Same diameter bullet as well perfect for reloading. |
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[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
450 Bushmaster in a scary semi auto Black Rifle and a 450 Marlin lever gun for traditionalist sakes. Same diameter bullet as well perfect for reloading. |
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[#28]
My mistake. I confused the two between 45 Raptor and 450 Marlin.
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[#29]
Being still confused, i have formulated my plan of action. I will go to the gun show with cash and buy whatever hits me with that gotta have it feels.
Based on what you guys are telling me, either would be more than sufficient for my needs. |
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[#30]
Quoted:
Being still confused, i have formulated my plan of action. I will go to the gun show with cash and buy whatever hits me with that gotta have it feels. Based on what you guys are telling me, either would be more than sufficient for my needs. View Quote Just post pics and wait for the real fanboys to come out of the woodwork and tell you how much better the other option was! |
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[#31]
Quoted: There ya go! That's a solid plan. Just post pics and wait for the real fanboys to come out of the woodwork and tell you how much better the other option was! View Quote |
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[#34]
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[#35]
I got both......love both for different purposes. 45 70 guide is handy in the timber. My 450 is my stand gun hunting over fields.
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[#36]
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[#39]
Quoted:
Such power. Much perfect. Master of all things. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10063/20190121_155419-816482.jpg View Quote the Master Race. |
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[#40]
Quoted:
Such power. Much perfect. Master of all things. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10063/20190121_155419-816482.jpg View Quote |
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[#41]
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[#42]
Quoted:
The local shop i bought ammo at today is ironically called Garrett's. Does that count? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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[#43]
Yup thats garbage. .450bm is the best. It's your funeral.
/gdtroll The big question is, how does it shoot? |
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[#44]
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[#45]
If I had been home this weekend I would've been shooting. I will be this weekend.
Layer up! Hell, come on by and I'll shoot it for you. |
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[#46]
Quoted:
If I had been home this weekend I would've been shooting. I will be this weekend. Layer up! Hell, come on by and I'll shoot it for you. View Quote |
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[#47]
I'd ask to join, but not making that 5 hour drive this weekend.
How's safe1 doing? I still feel bad i couldn't make it up to help with the great firewood stacking. |
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[#48]
For deer? 454 Casull in a light levergun, much handier in the woods (carrying around). Guide guns are heavy in comparison.
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[#49]
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