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Posted: 1/14/2019 8:10:32 AM EDT
[#1]
The Guide gun gets lots of lovin on this site, i have 2 of them & agree they are great guns. Kill anything in North America with the 4570.
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Posted: 1/14/2019 9:11:35 AM EDT
[#2]
I built a 450 BM AR style rifle. I’ve only shot it once at a deer, and I killed that deer where she stood. I don’t have enough experience with it yet to compare it to the master race yet.
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Posted: 1/14/2019 9:18:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I built a 450 BM AR style rifle. I’ve only shot it once at a deer, and I killed that deer where she stood. I don’t have enough experience with it yet to compare it to the master race yet. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 9:35:58 AM EDT
[#4]
45/70 MASTER RACE!!!!!! FTW!!!!!!
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Posted: 1/14/2019 9:39:17 AM EDT
[#5]
I took my first two deer ever this year, both with a Marlin 1895 in .45-70. My hunting area (Coshocton county) gives me a max shooting range of about 45 yards. Both deer were shot at 40 yards, and dropped where they stood. I can't compare it to a .450BM, but I was extremely pleased with the performance of my Marlin with XS ghost ring sights.
ETA:  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 10:54:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Looking around at Prices, it looks like I can get into the .450 mossberg for around $350ish plus glass. The Guide guns seem to be found new or used in the $550 to $600 range if I shop around new or used. Ammo seems to be a wash price wise and both are easily available here.
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Posted: 1/14/2019 12:59:19 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 1/14/2019 1:25:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@WhiskersTheCat 
The projectiles and cartridges available for the 45-70 are just the bees knees. So many different companies make it, with a bunch of variety for whatever task you'd ever need the gun to do. I gotta go with the 45-70 here. Plus, when you load those cartridges there's something uniquely American about it. Check out Garrett, Buffalo Bore and Underwood. I've read a quite a few complaints about Hornady Leverution. (Off the top of my head I think it's a 325gr polymer tip.) Also, apparently the Remington CoreLokt isn't as great in 45-70 as it might be in other cartridges. The ballistics certainly aren't anything like other offerings. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 3:35:14 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 1/14/2019 4:29:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Only reason for 450BM is in an AR. Was built around the constraints of that platform. In this case, I’d go 45-70
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Posted: 1/14/2019 7:27:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Join us...
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Posted: 1/14/2019 8:10:23 PM EDT
[#12]
45/70 Lever Gun reloads easily put the 450BM to shame power wise.
2300fps would be easy with a 300gr bullet in the 45/70 Even better is a Remington 405 Cor-Lokt at 1800fps from a Marlin guide gun.... or a tougher 400gr. Once you feel the power of the 45/70 lever gun reloads... the 450BM seems,.... moderate. And if you want.... you can shoot factory ammo to match the 450BM, if you prefer the softer shooting 45/70. I have a Browning 1886 Carbine in 45/70.... it is one firearm I will never sell. The versatility reloading for 45/70 it is simply amazing. Lead loads subsonic if you'd like... clear up to the above mentioned loads... ( and even faster in a longer barrel.. ) As much as a 450BM sounds great... the 45/70 can trounce it with better bullets, and higher velocities. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 8:34:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looking around at Prices, it looks like I can get into the .450 mossberg for around $350ish plus glass. The Guide guns seem to be found new or used in the $550 to $600 range if I shop around new or used. Ammo seems to be a wash price wise and both are easily available here. The have an 18" with better scope for a bit more. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 8:39:14 PM EDT
[#14]
I paid extra for the camo stock... stock still sucks. That's the only bad thing to say about the rifle.
I had shitty luck this season and didn't get to try it out on a deer. 
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Posted: 1/14/2019 9:52:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Bullet choices are fairly limited for .450BM (IIRC), but there are a ton of bullets available for the master race.
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Posted: 1/14/2019 10:04:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bullet choices are fairly limited for .450BM (IIRC), but there are a ton of bullets available for the master race. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 11:26:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bullet choices are fairly limited for .450BM (IIRC), but there are a ton of bullets available for the master race.  The internet needs to catch up with modern times and stop repeating this nonsense.
There a many good 200-425 gr bullets that work well in 450 Bushmaster. Several bullet makers are making bullets specific for 450 Bushmaster both super and sub-sonic (Barnes 275gr TSX being a personal favorite). Any bullet appropriate to 454 Casull or 460 S&W is a perfect candidate for 450 Bushmaster. In addition nearly any .458 diameter bullet can be easily sized down to .452 using a couple Lee sizing dies and a good closed arch press. It's a lot harder to go the other way. 
Left to Right: Barnes, 200gr XPB, Barnes 275gr TSX, Hornady 240gr XTP/MAG, Hornady 300gr XTP/MAG, Hornady, 225gr FTX, Hornady 250gr FTX, Remington 405gr SP (your Master Race bullet resized). |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 10:14:10 AM EDT
[#19]
Upper+sighting device is also an option. Strap it on the lower that you'll be shooting a box a year from...
That could keep cost down, but if you're really worried about cost, a simple 12ga and box of slugs will do. Or pick whatever gun floats your boat since the box/year ammo cost (especially when you reload) is negligible. Both will perform plenty on deer. The BM in its proper AR platform is a no brainer to me. Grab a 10rd (5.56) magazine for the low profile, its ready for choice of sighting device, most barrels should be threaded, so you can suppress it with no BS... you can also make it a pistol for an even more lightweight/compact gun. The 45/70 in a walnut/blue lever gun is the obvious choice if you want a classy, slick looking rifle though. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 11:35:49 AM EDT
[#20]
Do it.
 I actually did the get both thing. 16" 450bm RAR makes a handy bear rifle in the swamp |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 11:39:24 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Upper+sighting device is also an option. Strap it on the lower that you'll be shooting a box a year from... That could keep cost down, but if you're really worried about cost, a simple 12ga and box of slugs will do. Or pick whatever gun floats your boat since the box/year ammo cost (especially when you reload) is negligible. Both will perform plenty on deer. The BM in its proper AR platform is a no brainer to me. Grab a 10rd (5.56) magazine for the low profile, its ready for choice of sighting device, most barrels should be threaded, so you can suppress it with no BS... you can also make it a pistol for an even more lightweight/compact gun. The 45/70 in a walnut/blue lever gun is the obvious choice if you want a classy, slick looking rifle though. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 12:30:48 PM EDT
[#22]
OP if your going lever gun then the obvious answer is 45/70.
That said if your thinking bolt-gun the new Rugers in 450 Bushmaster are getting good reviews. If you are a handloader you can push the 450 Bushmaster cartridge a bit beyond what an AR can handle. That action is a lot stronger than the the compromised bolt in a 450 Bushmaster AR. Also since Ruger is building the 450BM guns on a 308 length receiver the magazine box is longer and you are not restricted to the 2.260 inch OAL to fit in an AR magazine. This makes it easier to load some of the heavier bullets a little hotter since you can seat them a bit longer and run the pressure up a touch more. The guys over at 450Bushmaster.net have been doing some interesting things with the Ruger bolt-guns. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 12:45:38 PM EDT
[#23]
450 Bushmaster in a scary semi auto Black Rifle and a 450 Marlin lever gun for traditionalist sakes. Same diameter bullet as well perfect for reloading.
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Posted: 1/15/2019 1:03:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
450 Bushmaster in a scary semi auto Black Rifle and a 450 Marlin lever gun for traditionalist sakes. Same diameter bullet as well perfect for reloading. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 1:39:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My intention is to give my 20ga deer gun to my son and get myself something new. I know the lever gun is a buy once cry once thing, but I also have to consider that my last two deer were taken with crossbow in October. My thought is that if I make it to gun season, I want to give myself the greatest advantage practical. So down here, you're not getting a damn thing out of any particular gun shooting less than 75... obviously the 4570 has much greater capabilities, but can they actually be utilized? Not for me, nothing that a BM or slug wouldn't do. I'd say the BM is still a better choice out to 300, since the AR or bolt platform is going to be more inherently accurate than a lever, and be optics/can ready out or the box. Not that you can't mount stuff on a lever or that a proper tang sight is bad. So now, I suppose, the question(s) is do you actually want another AR, bolt, or lever? Do you plan to make trips to grizzly country or such in the near future (4570 or 12ga)? Do you actually have a hunting area where you can realize the advantages of the 4570? Do you or want to do something like CASS? Do you want a full rifle taking up space (opposed to an upper)? |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 2:58:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are not the same bullet diameter. 450 Bushmaster uses .452-inch diameter bullets. 45/70 uses .458-inch diameter bullets. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
450 Bushmaster in a scary semi auto Black Rifle and a 450 Marlin lever gun for traditionalist sakes. Same diameter bullet as well perfect for reloading. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 6:29:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read what you quoted again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
450 Bushmaster in a scary semi auto Black Rifle and a 450 Marlin lever gun for traditionalist sakes. Same diameter bullet as well perfect for reloading. |
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Posted: 1/16/2019 9:23:20 AM EDT
[#28]
My mistake. I confused the two between 45 Raptor and 450 Marlin.
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Posted: 1/16/2019 10:27:30 AM EDT
[#29]
Being still confused, i have formulated my plan of action. I will go to the gun show with cash and buy whatever hits me with that gotta have it feels.
Based on what you guys are telling me, either would be more than sufficient for my needs. |
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Posted: 1/16/2019 8:05:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Being still confused, i have formulated my plan of action. I will go to the gun show with cash and buy whatever hits me with that gotta have it feels. Based on what you guys are telling me, either would be more than sufficient for my needs. Just post pics and wait for the real fanboys to come out of the woodwork and tell you how much better the other option was! |
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Posted: 1/16/2019 8:10:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There ya go! That's a solid plan. Just post pics and wait for the real fanboys to come out of the woodwork and tell you how much better the other option was! |
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Posted: 1/18/2019 8:53:43 AM EDT
[#32]
Found an Armslist deal. I ascend on Monday.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 8:46:48 AM EDT
[#33]
What are you intending on picking up?
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Posted: 1/20/2019 8:49:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are you intending on picking up? |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 11:54:45 AM EDT
[#35]
I got both......love both for different purposes. 45 70 guide is handy in the timber. My 450 is my stand gun hunting over fields.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 12:38:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Marlin 45/70 with 22" barrel. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 3:16:52 PM EDT
[#37]
Pics OP.
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Posted: 1/21/2019 4:58:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Such power. Much perfect. Master of all things.
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Posted: 1/21/2019 7:35:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Such power. Much perfect. Master of all things. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10063/20190121_155419-816482.jpg  .......to....
the Master Race. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 7:43:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Such power. Much perfect. Master of all things. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10063/20190121_155419-816482.jpg |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 8:27:47 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You must get a least one box of Garretts to be true master race Does that count? |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 8:54:19 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The local shop i bought ammo at today is ironically called Garrett's. Does that count? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You must get a least one box of Garretts to be true master race Does that count? |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 10:25:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Yup thats garbage. .450bm is the best. It's your funeral.
/gdtroll The big question is, how does it shoot? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 6:54:38 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The big question is, how does it shoot? 
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:53:04 AM EDT
[#45]
If I had been home this weekend I would've been shooting. I will be this weekend.
Layer up! Hell, come on by and I'll shoot it for you. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:58:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I had been home this weekend I would've been shooting. I will be this weekend. Layer up! Hell, come on by and I'll shoot it for you. |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 12:25:00 AM EDT
[#47]
I'd ask to join, but not making that 5 hour drive this weekend.
How's safe1 doing? I still feel bad i couldn't make it up to help with the great firewood stacking. |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 12:33:47 AM EDT
[#48]
For deer? 454 Casull in a light levergun, much handier in the woods (carrying around). Guide guns are heavy in comparison.
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Posted: 1/24/2019 12:53:11 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd ask to join, but not making that 5 hour drive this weekend. How's safe1 doing? I still feel bad i couldn't make it up to help with the great firewood stacking. 
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Posted: 1/24/2019 12:42:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Good to hear.
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