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Posted: 2/20/2021 5:58:35 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 2/20/2021 7:23:45 PM EDT
[#2]
If there wasn't this lack of readily available ammo, parts, powder, primers, etc going on in the industry, I would be really into the 6MM ARC. I enjoy precision shooting with AR15's.
Especially if I was looking at a supplemental caliber to a .223 / 5.56 base. I think it will survive the drought.. but God only knows when stuff will come back around. ( powders, ammo ) I am pretty sure you can form the case from 65G brass. |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 7:40:59 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 2/21/2021 8:57:53 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryThanks, I usually visit brownells once a day but got tired of seeing the "out of stock" on everything I am interested in. I'll take a closer look at what is in stock, but even with a complete upper I'll need ammo. |
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Posted: 2/21/2021 8:59:23 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If there wasn't this lack of readily available ammo, parts, powder, primers, etc going on in the industry, I would be really into the 6MM ARC. I enjoy precision shooting with AR15's. Especially if I was looking at a supplemental caliber to a .223 / 5.56 base. I think it will survive the drought.. but God only knows when stuff will come back around. ( powders, ammo ) I am pretty sure you can form the case from 65G brass. Powder and primer are not issues for me, cases and bullets are. I'll need to look into whether the Grendel brass can be resized for the ARC. |
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Posted: 2/21/2021 9:08:51 AM EDT
[#6]
Why not shoot 6.5G?
It is established, has cheap ammo made for it, is still a wind bucking high BC bullet. The ARC is a hornady marketing ploy because they don't own the market for Grendel therefore make less money off of it. The 224V was the same trick. |
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Posted: 2/21/2021 9:25:08 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Powder and primer are not issues for me, cases and bullets are. I'll need to look into whether the Grendel brass can be resized for the ARC. Yes it can. I use imperial wax and run my Hornady Grendel brass through a full size 6mm ARC (or 6mm Predator in my case) die. I then trim to spec and g2g. |
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Posted: 2/21/2021 9:25:57 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why not shoot 6.5G? It is established, has cheap ammo made for it, is still a wind bucking high BC bullet. The ARC is a hornady marketing ploy because they don't own the market for Grendel therefore make less money off of it. The 224V was the same trick. Grendel is awesone. 6mm ARC outperforms it in every way with even less recoil. |
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Posted: 2/21/2021 9:49:28 AM EDT
[#9]
If recoil is a selling point then you may have a point.
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Posted: 2/21/2021 12:09:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If recoil is a selling point then you may have a point. Higher b.c projectiles going at a higher velocity. Larger optimized bullet weight variation and yes, slightly less recoil. I've been shooting and hunting with 6.5 Grendel for years. Love it. Wouldn't sell my Grendels. I've also been shooting 6mm ARC long before it was called 6mm ARC. Whitleys 6mmAR/6mm Predator /6mm Grendel. It doesnt matter how you spin it, how you quantify it, or what perspective you put it in. 6mm ARC/Grendel/AR outperforms the 6.5 in just about every single scenario. It may be by a teenie weenie amount, or it might be more apparent, but ballistically and numerically better is better. Two falls ago I took a whitetail at 403 yards in a cloverfield with thr 6mm Predator pushing s 103 ELD-X going 2700 fps with no drama. It's quite the perfect marriage of case capacity and bullet weight/SD. |
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Posted: 2/21/2021 6:18:48 PM EDT
[#11]
At common hunting ranges if 300 yards and in, it doesn't matter.
The ARC is part of a long line of marketing ploys. The 6.5 was a truly new approach when it came out, while the ARC really isn't. I am glad that another round is being made on the basic case design because that means more will go into magazine design which benefits all similar cartridges. |
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Posted: 2/21/2021 7:34:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At common hunting ranges if 300 yards and in, it doesn't matter. The ARC is part of a long line of marketing ploys. The 6.5 was a truly new approach when it came out, while the ARC really isn't. I am glad that another round is being made on the basic case design because that means more will go into magazine design which benefits all similar cartridges. You are absolutely correct, 300 yards in it really doesnt matter, but that was never a point of contention here. OP is inquiring of the 6mm ARC, and as stated, it's a phenomenal cartridge. Components are short for all cartridges at the moment. Hell 30-30 ammo is going for more than 458 Socom ammo. As far as "Hornady marketing ploy", that's a dark rabbit hole you wander down, friend. If that was the general consumers attitude toward rifle cartridges we would only have 223 Rem, 308 Win, 300 Win mag and 458 Win mag in existence, because per your usage of the term "Marketing ploy", arnt all cartridges a "marketing ploy" in thier own right? You could say the same with 6.5 Creedmoor. Was that just a "marketing ploy" by Hornady over the 260 Rem? Which was a "marketing ploy" over the 6.5 A-Square, which was a "marketing ploy" over the 6.5 Panther/6.5-08? Were the WSM cartridges that led to the 6.5 SAUM which lead to the 6.5PRC just a "marketing ploy" over the original belted magnums? I am always shocked with the "vs" cartridges bull crap. Love all cartridges, and encourage manufacturers to support them all as well. |
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Posted: 2/21/2021 8:55:09 PM EDT
[#13]
^ agree with the above. If looking for supplementing a 223/5.56, I’d go with a 6arc or 224Valkyrie over the grendel. The grendel isn’t a bad option, it’s just the others have significant ballistic advantages for longer range shooting. It’s not all marketing hype and you can see that when you run the ballistics and use them in various conditions.
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Posted: 2/22/2021 1:55:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ARC is a hornady marketing ploy because they don't own the market for Grendel therefore make less money off of it. … and here you are again with negative stuff to say about this new cartridge  .At least throw up some numbers, as this is a serious tech oriented forum, or just stop posting. |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 8:14:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At common hunting ranges if 300 yards and in, it doesn't matter. The ARC is part of a long line of marketing ploys. The 6.5 was a truly new approach when it came out, while the ARC really isn't. I am glad that another round is being made on the basic case design because that means more will go into magazine design which benefits all similar cartridges. I wouldn't have a 6.5G if the 6 were available as a non wildcat when I got into it. I am heavily invested in the Grendel and happy with it so its staying. On second thought I'd say I'll take both. The 6.5 should be more ideal for game larger than white tails. Better barrel life, which is hardly a benefit with how cheap and easy a barrel change is. The big one is the 6.5 can cycle subs and does well in short barrels. |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 9:12:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't have a 6.5G if the 6 were available as a non wildcat when I got into it. I am heavily invested in the Grendel and happy with it so its staying. On second thought I'd say I'll take both. The 6.5 should be more ideal for game larger than white tails. Better barrel life, which is hardly a benefit with how cheap and easy a barrel change is. The big one is the 6.5 can cycle subs and does well in short barrels. Luckily for you, if you ever decide to go the 6mm route, all you need is a barrel, some dies and some 6mm projectiles! Having shot both whitetail and black bear with the Grendel and 6mmAR I'm pretty stoic in the mindset that there is no discernible terminal performance between the two. If the game your hunting is too large for a 6mmAR, it's too large for a Grendel. As far as barrel life, burning 28gr of powder you wont burn through a barrel on either of these cartridges. Cycling subs? Well... I guess you have a caveat there, but that would be one wonky Grendel build and I have yet to see anyone running a purpose built subsonic Grendel.. With cartridges like 300 Whisper/BO and 277 Wolverine that can efficiently tap dance between subs and supers, you would have to be doing it just to say "I did it" (which is cool In it's own way!) |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 9:18:25 PM EDT
[#17]
What range are you shooting?
 Attached File123 6.5G 16bbl  Attached File105 6ARC 16bbl Ran the numbers in iStrelok using the same atmosphere and barrel length. Test data for the ARC is published using a 24 inch barrel. I subtracted from that to match my tested Grendel to make the data from equal rifles. It is a marketing ploy. I didn’t run the data on my Grendel beyond 600 because that is all I have to shoot so it isn’t in my normal tables. The energy is a slight advantage to the Grendel if you are hunting with the round. I hunt with mine so that matters to me.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 11:15:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What range are you shooting? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/255381/1E325EC7-E2E3-4ABB-8C73-0C0662FBFC81_jpe-1837333.JPG 123 6.5G 16bbl https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/255381/EDB6D88B-85C9-47C5-9031-395791B7E43C_jpe-1837309.JPG 105 6ARC 16bbl Ran the numbers in iStrelok using the same atmosphere and barrel length. Test data for the ARC is published using a 24 inch barrel. I subtracted from that to match my tested Grendel to make the data from equal rifles. It is a marketing ploy. I didn’t run the data on my Grendel beyond 600 because that is all I have to shoot so it isn’t in my normal tables. The energy is a slight advantage to the Grendel if you are hunting with the round. I hunt with mine so that matters to me. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/255381/4F591644-A69E-4BF7-8184-CEF1601034E3_jpe-1837354.JPG Your chart is wack. You realize you posted a chart with two cartridges same powder charge the lighter one shooting a higher B.C bullet faster yet has roughly the same wind drift than the one shooting a lower b.c bullet 100-150 fps slower? And even with your wack chart the energy numbers are within 100ft lbs of each other? With numbers that close bullet design trumps a 50ft lbs of energy difference. Nice doe. |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 11:19:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Luckily for you, if you ever decide to go the 6mm route, all you need is a barrel, some dies and some 6mm projectiles! Having shot both whitetail and black bear with the Grendel and 6mmAR I'm pretty stoic in the mindset that there is no discernible terminal performance between the two. If the game your hunting is too large for a 6mmAR, it's too large for a Grendel. As far as barrel life, burning 28gr of powder you wont burn through a barrel on either of these cartridges. Cycling subs? Well... I guess you have a caveat there, but that would be one wonky Grendel build and I have yet to see anyone running a purpose built subsonic Grendel.. With cartridges like 300 Whisper/BO and 277 Wolverine that can efficiently tap dance between subs and supers, you would have to be doing it just to say "I did it" (which is cool In it's own way!) 18in Lilja midlength 123g ELD over 28.6g 8208 2471fps, H3 buffer, springco enhanced spring, bootleg adj. BCG set to suppressed. 160g RN Norma over 12g H335 1060fps, carbine buffer, springco enhanced, bootleg set all the way open. OAL 2.55 on both. |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 11:27:27 PM EDT
[#20]
No animal in the world will tell a difference between those two loads.
But if you have a 10 mph crosswind, or your off a bit on your rangefinder, the nearly 1' less drop at 500 yards WILL make a difference. The longer the barrel, the more life favors the 6mm variant. |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 11:29:12 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 2/22/2021 11:35:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Following
Wanting to build one myself, but was also skiddish about building something so new when I have no primers, brass, dies, etc loo, but I think it will come back around. Don't have the money to build one top notch, so currently deciding on a mid-level barrel I can afford (Ballistic Advantage, Faxon, etc). Just new to this AR world and still researching barrels. Have you found one you like? |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 11:45:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 18in Lilja midlength 123g ELD over 28.6g 8208 2471fps, H3 buffer, springco enhanced spring, bootleg adj. BCG set to suppressed. 160g RN Norma over 12g H335 1060fps, carbine buffer, springco enhanced, bootleg set all the way open. OAL 2.55 on both. That's definitely cool!! So when you want to shoot subs, you change over your buffer/spring and adjust the BCG key? Pretty nifty. If your heavily invested in the Grendel and want to shoot subs, that's solid info right there. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:27:15 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your chart is wack. You realize you posted a chart with two cartridges same powder charge the lighter one shooting a higher B.C bullet faster yet has roughly the same wind drift than the one shooting a lower b.c bullet 100-150 fps slower? And even with your wack chart the energy numbers are within 100ft lbs of each other? With numbers that close bullet design trumps a 50ft lbs of energy difference. Nice doe. Both are mid weight bullets for the cartridges. The ARC is factory data, the Grendel is my own tested data. I didn't even address the powder charge because that is irrelevant. Only MV matters. Both are using the same ELD bullet and used the published BC. There is nothing biased or rigged. The data is as close to apples/apples as you can get. Istrelok did the math. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 6:53:39 AM EDT
[#25]
The test barrel used for the 6mm ARC was an 18" barrel. You can find the info on this link. I know it not the standard, but it is what it is. https://www.hornady.com/assets/site/hornady/files/load-data/6mm-arc-gas-58-105gr-data.pdf |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 7:19:53 AM EDT
[#26]
https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/new-from-hornady-6mm-arc/376909
 Attached File |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 7:26:19 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The test barrel used for the 6mm ARC was an 18" barrel. You can find the info on this link. I know it not the standard, but it is what it is. https://www.hornady.com/assets/site/hornady/files/load-data/6mm-arc-gas-58-105gr-data.pdf For Hornady’s reloading manual. Yes. Subtract 50fps for the 2 inches of shortened barrel. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 12:54:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are absolutely correct, 300 yards in it really doesnt matter, but that was never a point of contention here. OP is inquiring of the 6mm ARC, and as stated, it's a phenomenal cartridge. Components are short for all cartridges at the moment. Hell 30-30 ammo is going for more than 458 Socom ammo. As far as "Hornady marketing ploy", that's a dark rabbit hole you wander down, friend. If that was the general consumers attitude toward rifle cartridges we would only have 223 Rem, 308 Win, 300 Win mag and 458 Win mag in existence, because per your usage of the term "Marketing ploy", arnt all cartridges a "marketing ploy" in thier own right? You could say the same with 6.5 Creedmoor. Was that just a "marketing ploy" by Hornady over the 260 Rem? Which was a "marketing ploy" over the 6.5 A-Square, which was a "marketing ploy" over the 6.5 Panther/6.5-08? Were the WSM cartridges that led to the 6.5 SAUM which lead to the 6.5PRC just a "marketing ploy" over the original belted magnums? I am always shocked with the "vs" cartridges bull crap. Love all cartridges, and encourage manufacturers to support them all as well. Well said! Very well said, indeed. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 7:13:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's definitely cool!! So when you want to shoot subs, you change over your buffer/spring and adjust the BCG key? Pretty nifty. If your heavily invested in the Grendel and want to shoot subs, that's solid info right there. Just the buffer and 3 clicks on the BCG. Really the supers work fine in the sub setup as well at least when its cold. 
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