Works fine, it's got tritium.

And it also has an etched reticle, which works when you illuminate your target with a light.

So all the guys at the tip of the spear figured out a few years ago that LPVO is the way to go for almost everything, and some of you guys are still arguing for the best of '90s technology in the ACOG?

SOCOM has purchased a bunch of Vortex 1-6s for a damn good reason.  And there are plenty more of them, as well as other models of 1-4 and 1-6 that guys purchased with their own funds, on rifles riding into harm's way.

I'm not here to argue, but it's funny to me that it's still a discussion.

When I had my Gen 2 Razor 1-6 the glass is absolutely top tier. If I was shooting from a stationary position it would work just fine. However I have 20/10-20/13 vision,meaning the 6x magnification wasn't as big of a gain as it would be to someone with poorer eyesight. Also, trying to run it fast like a red dot with both eyes open led to a horrible splitting between the eyes headache after maybe two minutes of running and gunning. It was set up correctly regarding eye relief and focus,and I had it in a Geissele mount. Definitely a quality piece of hardware but my eyes don't like scopes unless I'm sitting still. YMMV

Contrary to internet belief, not everyone has the same requirements as a DEVGRU/CAG operator.

Same here.   I've ran a few LPVs, including an ATACR 1-8.  They don't work worth a shit for me on 1X.

So they don't still use ACOGs at all anymore? They've all moved to 1-4s or 1-6s entirely?

No, ACOGs are still the majority.
LPVs show promise in certain situations and setups though.

I'm with Samuse on this one, LPVs suck for many of us at 1X.
The 4X ACOG is still the best compromise for a lot of shooters.
SBR/Aimpoint can benefit from a removable magnifier.
If somebody ever puts out a LPV that works for me at 1X anywhere
near as good as an Aimpoint or a TA31/TA11 BAC I'll buy it!

Exactly
I'll agree that LPVs are very useful and versatile, but it all boils down to personal preference. Somebody may want the ACOG simply because of the durability factor or lighter weight.

I was waiting for that... too bad you need to wait 20 mins for your eyes to adjust to be able to see it.... no thanks...

That's the dirty little secret no one talks about.

White lights never fail....  Now what?

Maybe you do.  I have no problem seeing the reticle when going from light to dark areas.  It's a pretty seamless transition with no need to adjust a knob.

I was screwing around with the rifle builder here, and put in my upper set ups and added the tr24, mostly to check weights and see how it all lined up. Looks like it can help me keep the rifle to reasonable weight so I'll rip the parts off the actual guns later and do it up. I hate messing with scopes since you have to go back and re-zero everything, but I just am not shooting 3 gun right now, so who cares?

I have no problem with a true 1x. I can't do it with a 1.5 and have tried, but an honest 1x is fine for me. I like the both eyes open, and usually switch to one eye if I'm using magnification.

the rifle builder also showed me I need a can 8" barrel rifles with scopes look silly without another ~6" suppressor on the end

Great discussion on pros/cons and different scenarios!  If I had to choose one.......I'm thinkin a FFP lpv such as a 1-4/6x is tough to beat for all around HD/SHTF.   1x can give you a red dot type functionality with less clutter and you get reticle use at any range on up from there.  even if using scope for scouting/recon at longer distances is a big plus.   now this is for SHTF of course.

Just to keep the discussion going, i'm curious why you specified FFP as opposed to SFP?
My experience so far has been that most LPVO with FFP have a reticle that's almost impossible to use until you get to the max magnification.  I never found myself much using inbetween magnifications on LPVO.  Now, on the 2.5-10x24 I have I do, but very specifically. At 8x and above, in low light, it can't transmit enough light to actually show you anything. But, if I use 5x, it's exactly half the max and I can do that math on Mil holds fairly easy. But I don't use 3x, or 6x. Pretty much 2.5,5 and 10.
I've got another LPVO coming in Monday, the Razor 1-6, and I have a feeling it'll mostly be a 1 OR 6.  Who knows, I might use some inbetween magnification for stuff inside 200yds, but if I need to start minding bullet drop i'm going to 6x and using hold overs.

For SHTF, I don't know if FFP would make a difference to me. If i'm glassing something, i'm going to use the max magnification anyway. Any kind of shooting in a SHTF situation will probably be on 1x, or just with a red dot instead.
The big downside I can see to selecting a LPVO for your SHTF rifle (which i'm currently doing) is weight. I'm going from like a 5oz red dot/mount setup to something that's going to weigh closer to 26oz.  
But, when I think back to my time hunting in the PNW here, I didn't like carrying around separate binos just for glassing. I had a 3-10 on my rifle and most of the time it was on 3x. But if we were just parked somewhere and I was just glassing I'd crank it up.  I can picture something similar with a defensive rifle.  If i'm posted up on the second floor of my house I can see 200yds with about a 120deg spread.  It would be nice to be able to see what people are doing at that distance, or what's in their hands. Can I hold a red dot on a target and make hits at 200 yds? Pfff yeah, we all can.  Can I tell you what's in someone's hands at 200yds? Nope.   So yeah, I can kind of see the swiss/army knife like usability of a LPVO on a rifle. Is it perfect? no, but it has some plusses and minuses.

Another optic that's worth looking at is what Vortex now calls the Ranger. It used to be the PST 1-4.  It only comes in one flavor now, MOA with tactical turrets. But for a 16oz 1-4, it's got a pretty usable reticle, nice illumination, and good glass.

If it has the potential to be used in room/hallway  distances nothing beats a red dot for me for speed and flexibility.

You don't have to worry about eye relief, or having your cheek weld just so. This really come in to play shooting around/over/under cover in awkward positions when in a hurry.

If I could only do one rifle I would piggyback a micro dot on a good scope. But I haven't done much shooting with variables.

I don't like the FFP LPVOs.  The reticle is completely dependent on batteries at 1X and you can't really even see the reticle until it gets about 2/3 way to max.  If it's a long enough shot to need to measure a holdover, then you need max mag.

US Army has announced its selection of SIG SAUER’s TANGO6 1-6×24 riflescope for their Squad Designated Marksman Rifle (SDMR

This is why I bought the vx-r patrol. IMHO, it's the perfect optic for my 10.5" SBR, with the exception of not being a true 1x. Otherwise, it has a great SFP reticle, fiber optic dot with auto off, relatively lightweight, just enough magnification for a shorty AR, and got mine for a great price. If it were true 1x, I'd probably have a half dozen of them.

Still pretty dang fast in CQB situations, though.

How did you adjust the diopter for focus?

The same way I did my magnifier, glancing at something with the naked eye and then through the scope until they looked the same. Objects viewed through the scope were the same size as the naked eye.

Pretty sure accounting drove that one.

The guys that can call up and use a .gov credit card to buy the most effective gear available aren't buying ACOGs.

USMC I'm sure will move their old ACOGs to the phased plasma rifle, 20MW range when it's adopted, but it won't be because it's the most versatile sighting system.

Big green and USMC can't afford to arm every infantryman with a variable optic, nor would they get the training to use it to maximum effectiveness.

That particular model, yes.

Obviously accounting drove it like accounting drives anything, but they were purposely looking for an LPVO option. That's the point there.

4x ACOG with a piggy backed RMR of your choice. A light weight general purpose optic setup that’ll cover you from contact distance out to medium range. As far as the offset everyone complains about, it’s like anything else; all it takes is practice. Once you learn your holds, it can be just as fast as anything else. You just have to put the training time in.

But not for standard issue, i.e. general purpose.  It's specifically for the DMR.

Ok, I'm coming in late but at a quick glance I don't see that a lot of what I'll say has been covered.

The OP was addressing SHTF scenarios and optics.  If your in this situation your resources are precious and longer range engagements will not be wise.   You want to stay hidden and avoid confrontation in an effort to save ammo and avoid injury so being the aggressor goes against these principles.  You'll be addressing threats heading to you and allowing other threats to pass by you if they don't get close.  Shots outside of 100 yards will not be common so distance shouldn't be a heavy priority in your decision making.

This being said, that's not to say you wont take shots at distance but those shots wont be based on fine movement, ie going for a gun.  These decisions will be based on things like, I know these are bad guys because of X and I'm taking them out.  So a fine sight picture won't be important.

If your in this situation then your now living in a land that is either lawless or grossly different than the one we currently live in so legal matters will not play as big a role as they do now.

I have RDS's on all my AR-15's and a 1-8 on my AR-10.  IMO, you cant beat a RDS on an AR with a 50 yard zero.  Anything 300 and in is point and shoot, no hold over necessary.  That's perfect for a SHTF scenario.

Even the most hard-nosed Game Warden isn’t going to arrest him for manslaughter after shooting a deer at 100 yards.

i put my Tr24, red dot, and iron sights all next to each other yesterday. I played with snapping up to get a pic and I am as fast with the 1x on the TR as I am with the dot. both faster than irons, but I assumed that would be the case. So now what I'm trying to decide is if it's worth it to use my 18" 556 gun (heavy!) with the variable, or stick with the lighter and shorter 300BO 8".

I'm at a consolidation phase in my life, trying to make room and clear out anything and everything that isn't of fantastic quality. I'd rather 2 rifles I really enjoy than 20 PSA bargain builds. I barely get time to shoot as it is. If the market was better I would dump 3 "bonus" ARs I have and finally fund night vision.

going to mess around more. the 3 gun rifle with the tr24 was custom painted, so it's a bit harder to change/replace parts. Although I could strip out the bull barrel that's in there and pop in a lightweight 16, couldn't I? That would lighten the whole damn thing up and make it more handy in close... but the JP shoots so damn well. decisions I guess...

I agree with just about everything you said.  The only thing I'll add is that it's hard to tell what something is at 300 yards through a RDS.  So unless you also have binos or something you won't be able to tell what something is 300-400 yards away with your naked eye

Great point, I made the assumption bino's will be included in your gear, They are in mine.  But your absolutely correct that if weight is an issue a magnified optic is a way to eliminate some need for bino's.

No matter what rifle or what scope, no way I'm giving up my Leica 10X42 binocs.

I don't like pointing a rifle at something I'm just trying to identify, but my thought with this is that it's my grab-and-go. so not enough time to get my actual gear ready, which will have better looking glass.

This guy gets it...
And the other poster who mentioned the .Mil guys with the money, are not buying ACOG's... tells me what I always knew...

Good Bombproof General issue optic, (That finally got the Marine Corp into the 21st Century...)

But way better choices...

Trijicon is like the Glock of scopes... no innovation...Just a few "Me too's" from sucking too long off the .Gov Teat.

My astigmatism pretty much forced me over to LPVO.  Even with my glasses, I cant see a clear dot with anything, other than a Mepro M21 or Trijicon reflex.  I've been using a S&B Short dot, and ELCAN 1x4 for quite a while.  Thy may not be quite as fast as a red dot on 1x, but they work well.

I am not and never was talking about shooting a deer. I am referring to shooting an adversary at 100 yards, and that would be a problem. OP spoke of various sceniaros...  so what does he want, a deer rifle or a personal / home defense carbine? To many they are mutually exclusive.

I want one rifle that is the one rifle I grab almost no matter what the situation. So HD, bugging out, perimeter defense, etc.

sounds like a recce type rifle with a lpvo imo

In that case?

LPVO is the most flexible. Just find a solid 1-4 or 1-6 and go with it.

Then you'll get a compromise, and that may work well for you. The variable will be just that, and you'll most likely enjoy it.

If I'm at room/hallway distances with a carbine that has a LPVO mounted, I'm just going to roll it 45 degrees to the left and use the muzzle like a shotgun rib that same way I've been doing it competitively for years.

that's a good technique too, my surefire scout light sits at a good angle to use it as a guide for point shooting

This! 14.5 Noveske LCLP barrel build, using only IMI ammo, with Steiner P4Xi optic as my primary carry with backup 10.5 Pistol with scalarworks PEAK irons and CompM5 on my back and Sig P229 on my hip.

I'm more worried about speed at 0-100 than I am about 100-400y accuracy.

While both could work, Aimpoint is tougher, lighter, cheaper and illumination lasts for years not weeks at usable daylight levels.  No contest.

That said this is for a defensive rifles. I have no requirement to use my rifles in a offensive capacity.

6x flip to side magnifyer. Still have the red dot for short distance and 6x magnification for distance. It’s the best setup imo.

You mean the same guys who insisted on EOjunk until forced to change?

There isn’t a 1-6 out there that competes with a red dot on 1x. Period. The end.

I am straying away from LPVO for SHTF. I had a 1-4x on that rifle, practiced for and shot a 2 gun match. I am way faster with a red dot inside of 100 yards. And being cross eyed dominate, I have to squint my left eye just slightly to get a sight picture. I don't have to do that with the MRO. I also like the lighter weight of the MRO.

The odds of me shooting at someone past 25 yards it SHTF seems damned low.

I'm more concerned about where people live during these discussions than who's right and who's wrong.

I live in western USA. 100yard and under shots only exist inside buildings. I have 1x prism scopes and they are a breeze to use even at distance, but do absolutely nothing for precision or target identification at distance.

Because of this, I am firmly in the magnification camp. Fixed low power or LPV is the way to go because in addition to these CQB scenarios not really existing, they are easily addressed without any optic or sight to begin with. I don't need an optic to identify a target at <25 yards. I don't even need an optic to shoot a silhouette at <25 yards. I sure as spit want one for 100+ yards.

Out here, range is king. The sooner you can identify and either avoid or put rounds on target, the safer you are. If people are getting within 100y of you, you're asleep with no one on watch.

Lol