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Posted: 1/13/2020 12:22:48 AM EDT
Saw this on Target Sports Website:
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/wolf-gold-556-mm-nato-m193-ammo-55-grain-fmj-wm193-p-110223.aspx 
Anyone have experience with this ammo? Appears to be new as customers are asking about the differences between this and Wolf Gold 223. Wolf Gold .223 is very good stuff, but it will be interesting to see if this is true M193. |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 12:28:31 AM EDT
[#1]
This is the first I've ever seen it. If it's from the same plant that makes the Wolf Gold 223 it should be good ammo.
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Posted: 1/13/2020 1:27:20 AM EDT
[#2]
Me guess actual 5.56 load?
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Posted: 1/13/2020 2:35:29 AM EDT
[#3]
Finally! WG in 5.56
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Posted: 1/13/2020 2:47:35 AM EDT
[#4]
appears to be loaded to 5.56 nato specs not 223 rem. 30 bucks a case more expensive. but should be fine ammo. the other wolf sure is.
edit: interesting that a TSUSA employee says to a question that they don't believe its worth the price increase. and looking at the black box wolf page comments a TSUSA employee says the black stuff is 5.56 but has to be imported as 223 or some yaddy yadda. it's there go read it I can't recall exact wording its 2am lol |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 4:03:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
appears to be loaded to 5.56 nato specs not 223 rem. 30 bucks a case more expensive. but should be fine ammo. the other wolf sure is. edit: interesting that a TSUSA employee says to a question that they don't believe its worth the price increase. and looking at the black box wolf page comments a TSUSA employee says the black stuff is 5.56 but has to be imported as 223 or some yaddy yadda. it's there go read it I can't recall exact wording its 2am lol Question asked about WG .223 ammo- is the branded .223 actually 5.56 Response: "According to our knowledge, Wold Gold 223 Ammunition is military ammunition made in Taiwan to Mil-Specifications (5.56mm NATO) and sold under the 223 Remington caliber in the United States Commercial/Civilian market. Thank you for visiting TargetSportsUSA.com" Interesting. Others have reported the WG .223 is loaded "hot" for .223 ammo, Molon on 01/11/2016 tested WG and "The muzzle velocity for the 10-shot string of the Wolf Gold 55 grain FMJ ammunition was 3213 FPS with a standard deviation of 25 FPS. For comparison, IMI M193 had a muzzle velocity of 3274 FPS when fired from the same barrel, with a standard deviation of 18 FPS." |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 4:38:45 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
appears to be loaded to 5.56 nato specs not 223 rem. 30 bucks a case more expensive. but should be fine ammo. the other wolf sure is. edit: interesting that a TSUSA employee says to a question that they don't believe its worth the price increase. and looking at the black box wolf page comments a TSUSA employee says the black stuff is 5.56 but has to be imported as 223 or some yaddy yadda. it's there go read it I can't recall exact wording its 2am lol OP - I have a case of it ordered today and knowing TSUSA Ill have it in about 9 or 10 days. Ill post results compared to the wolf gold .223 i usually plink at the range. |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 5:04:12 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I saw that too. I was shopping for 5.56 earlier and since im a prime member my go to is tsusa. When I sawwolf gold had 5.56 i was intrigued but even the employees dont recommend it, granted I doubt any of the customer service reps are shooters based off phone calls with them. OP - I have a case of it ordered today and knowing TSUSA Ill have it in about 9 or 10 days. Ill post results compared to the wolf gold .223 i usually plink at the range. Curious if it's a different manufacturer since Wolf is just an importer. But I suppose Taiwan probably doesn't have a ton ammo plants but I certainly could be wrong. |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 11:26:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, specs on the .223 and 5.56 identical. Question asked about WG .223 ammo- is the branded .223 actually 5.56 Response: "According to our knowledge, Wold Gold 223 Ammunition is military ammunition made in Taiwan to Mil-Specifications (5.56mm NATO) and sold under the 223 Remington caliber in the United States Commercial/Civilian market. Thank you for visiting TargetSportsUSA.com" Interesting. Others have reported the WG .223 is loaded "hot" for .223 ammo, Molon on 01/11/2016 tested WG and "The muzzle velocity for the 10-shot string of the Wolf Gold 55 grain FMJ ammunition was 3213 FPS with a standard deviation of 25 FPS. For comparison, IMI M193 had a muzzle velocity of 3274 FPS when fired from the same barrel, with a standard deviation of 18 FPS." 4yrs ago @ 45F 10" - 2,427 16" - 2,989 20" - 3,056 2yrs ago @ 45F 10" - 2,454 16" - 3,005 20" - 3,093 22" - 3,249 |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 11:27:46 AM EDT
[#9]
LC is the same price.
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Posted: 1/13/2020 11:31:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I tested WG awhile back I wasn't getting those kind of speeds. 4yrs ago @ 45F 10" - 2,42716" - 2,989 20" - 3,056 2yrs ago @ 45F 10" - 2,454 16" - 3,005 20" - 3,093 22" - 3,249 That is a lot different velos, makes more sense for .223. Head to head test would be excellent to see now. |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 11:40:50 AM EDT
[#11]
Is TSUSA the only supplier right now? I have a contact there I could get hold of. Although it's only 30F right now, so velocities would be down, but still a head to head would show us if they've dialed the .223 loading back to differentiate with the 5.56 loading.
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Posted: 1/13/2020 12:18:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Response: "According to our knowledge, Wold Gold 223 Ammunition is military ammunition made in Taiwan to Mil-Specifications (5.56mm NATO) and sold under the 223 Remington caliber in the United States Commercial/Civilian market. |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 7:29:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A NATO specification for M193, which is not NATO ammo? I'm not saying Wolf Gold is "M193 spec" as it has been a little low on velocity compared to actual M193. But it shoots more accurate for me. |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 7:59:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cant it still be "M193 spec"? Without saying it is actual M193, with the only real difference being that M193 was lot tested and approved. I'm not saying Wolf Gold is "M193 spec" as it has been a little low on velocity compared to actual M193. But it shoots more accurate for me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: A NATO specification for M193, which is not NATO ammo? I'm not saying Wolf Gold is "M193 spec" as it has been a little low on velocity compared to actual M193. But it shoots more accurate for me. But it cannot be "NATO spec" when NATO doesn't have a spec for that. M193 is a US military specification. |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 9:03:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure it can. But it cannot be "NATO spec" when NATO doesn't have a spec for that. M193 is a US military specification. |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 9:17:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I read their response as referring to the cartridge as "5.56mm NATO", to differentiate from .223 Remington specs; M193 being a US-spec loading for the NATO-spec cartridge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Sure it can. But it cannot be "NATO spec" when NATO doesn't have a spec for that. M193 is a US military specification. My sole point, is that anyone who says M193 is NATO spec, should likely be ignored as not a credible source. |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 10:42:52 PM EDT
[#17]
King_Mud to the rescue. Got both of them coming to run in a same day test to see what the difference is.
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Posted: 1/13/2020 11:36:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
King_Mud to the rescue. Got both of them coming to run in a same day test to see what the difference is. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 12:15:57 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you have any Wolf Gold black box to compare it too? Curious if it's a different manufacturer since Wolf is just an importer. But I suppose Taiwan probably doesn't have a ton ammo plants but I certainly could be wrong. |
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Posted: 1/17/2020 12:35:11 PM EDT
[#20]
How do you all want the structure of this video? All 5 barrel lengths Wolf Gold then Wolf White Box, or should I alternate Wolf Gold and White Box per each barrel length so it's easy to direct compare?
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Posted: 1/17/2020 12:44:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Just put the results in a table at the end. That'll make everyone happy, I think.
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Posted: 1/17/2020 1:06:05 PM EDT
[#22]
ok :D
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Posted: 1/17/2020 8:54:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Personally I like it when the same barrel is used for all ammo types before switching guns, that direct comparison just makes it easier to follow for me.
A table summary at the end would be awesome, do whatever works best for your method though. |
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Posted: 1/17/2020 10:19:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you all want the structure of this video? All 5 barrel lengths Wolf Gold then Wolf White Box, or should I alternate Wolf Gold and White Box per each barrel length so it's easy to direct compare? |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 3:40:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Results are in. If you don't want to watch the video: TL:DR Almost identical to each other, but no where near a 5.56 load tested on the same day:
 55gr FMJ, Wolf Gold Vs Wolf White Box M193, Which is Better?  223WolfgoldWhitem193new by Buffman RANGE, on Flickr
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Posted: 1/20/2020 3:54:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Excellent video. Thank you sir.
 I have a sneaking suspicion that if you had 100 rounds of each to do nothing but testing 10 shot groups with they'd work out to be statistically identical there too. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 3:57:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Thanks for the breakdown
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Posted: 1/20/2020 5:59:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Excellent video. Thank you sir. I have a sneaking suspicion that if you had 100 rounds of each to do nothing but testing 10 shot groups with they'd work out to be statistically identical there too. |
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Posted: 1/21/2020 1:27:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Thanks Buffman!
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Posted: 1/21/2020 9:24:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Thanks Buffman! Do you happen to have photos of the two cartridges side by side, so we can see the differences between what the cases look like, primers, etc?
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Posted: 1/21/2020 11:19:54 AM EDT
[#31]
They look virtually the same:
 5.56x45mm, 55gr FMJ, Wolf Gold White Box by Buffman RANGE, on Flickr
 .223 Remington, 55gr FMJ, Wolf Gold by Buffman RANGE, on Flickr
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Posted: 1/21/2020 1:37:12 PM EDT
[#32]
they're the same thing. only difference is headstamp and box
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Posted: 1/21/2020 3:56:42 PM EDT
[#33]
On Wolf's site the only difference shown between the .223 and M193 5.56 is that the M193 one is 10fps faster
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Posted: 1/21/2020 6:19:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They look virtually the same: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49416726042_974fee8b77_c.jpg5.56x45mm, 55gr FMJ, Wolf Gold White Box by Buffman RANGE, on Flickr https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49416514591_2f27c02473_c.jpg.223 Remington, 55gr FMJ, Wolf Gold by Buffman RANGE, on Flickr |
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Posted: 1/22/2020 4:40:55 AM EDT
[#35]
Kinda disappointing that you are only getting 2800ish fps out of a 16” barrel, I was under the impression that WG gets close to 3000 out of a 16” and 3100-3200 out of a 20” barrel.
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Posted: 1/22/2020 10:05:52 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kinda disappointing that you are only getting 2800ish fps out of a 16” barrel, I was under the impression that WG gets close to 3000 out of a 16” and 3100-3200 out of a 20” barrel. https://youtu.be/Bof67PMkOW0 |
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Posted: 1/22/2020 10:49:37 AM EDT
[#37]
OP,
Thanks again for taking the time and endurance to test both loads in 27 Degree weather. Wolf Gold in either flavor still seems to be just about the best choice of M193 on the market. Quality ammo, even in sub-freezing weather. |
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Posted: 1/22/2020 12:25:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you watch the video, it's 27*F. At lower temps, velocity will decrease. If you watch Buffman's other WG video, he gets an average of 3000 fps out of a 16" barrel, where he says temps are about 50-55*F. https://youtu.be/Bof67PMkOW0 Without knowing whether powders being used are "temperature sensitive", that could be a deciding factor to. Ideally Warm humid days allow for less friction and better velocity. Wish I had like an environmental chamber shooting range to show how much air density can affect bullet speed :D |
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Posted: 1/22/2020 4:49:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another thing to note, is it seems to be a recent trend that manufacturers are dialing back pressures on .223/5.56 loads. IMI has dialed loads back because of issues with people running shit in their guns they shouldn't be (or out of spec chambers), so there's that too. I just tested silver bear and brown bear 9mm, that used to exceed 1300 fps in a 5" barrel :O Without knowing whether powders being used are "temperature sensitive", that could be a deciding factor to. Ideally Warm humid days allow for less friction and better velocity. Wish I had like an environmental chamber shooting range to show how much air density can affect bullet speed :D |
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Posted: 1/22/2020 11:24:39 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: iirc, it's 1.7fps per degree of temperature change |
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Posted: 1/22/2020 11:48:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I remember seeing that number, but is that temperature only, or does it take relative humidity into affect? |
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Posted: 1/23/2020 10:13:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I saw that too. I was shopping for 5.56 earlier and since im a prime member my go to is tsusa. When I sawwolf gold had 5.56 i was intrigued but even the employees dont recommend it, granted I doubt any of the customer service reps are shooters based off phone calls with them. OP - I have a case of it ordered today and knowing TSUSA Ill have it in about 9 or 10 days. Ill post results compared to the wolf gold .223 i usually plink at the range. I'm curious what you think of the TSUSA prime membership. Besides free shipping, is the ammo price lower for prime members? |
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Posted: 1/24/2020 3:24:09 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @NotAnOper8r I'm curious what you think of the TSUSA prime membership. Besides free shipping, is the ammo price lower for prime members? |
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Posted: 1/24/2020 9:55:57 AM EDT
[#44]
I just saw this but Wolf Gold "WhiteBox" is also now importing an M855 variant. Has Wolf done this in the past, or is that a first time offering?
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Posted: 2/3/2020 12:25:49 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just saw this but Wolf Gold "WhiteBox" is also now importing an M855 variant. Has Wolf done this in the past, or is that a first time offering? So I personally believe what they're doing is a pure marketing gimmick, a good ol' switcheroo. Introduce the fancy new white box M193 blah blah blah for a $20 bump in price. Slowly lure over the ones who will fall for it, without doing any research. And lastly, phase out the classic black box Wolf Gold loading. In summary, say goodbye to $269/case (not including shipping). |
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Posted: 2/12/2020 10:52:00 AM EDT
[#46]
Dang.....hafta run some of my new wolf gold through a chronograph.
When I did it two years ago I was averaging 3025fps out of a 16” and 3200fps out of a 20”. Curious. I like wolf gold as for bulk ammo it has by far been the most consistent accuracy over xm193 and IMI. Never really tried much of the other. |
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Posted: 2/16/2020 2:06:48 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Results are in. If you don't want to watch the video: TL:DR Almost identical to each other, but no where near a 5.56 load tested on the same day:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEfJmQjpXQQ
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49414632052_f843a4356b_c.jpg223WolfgoldWhitem193new by Buffman RANGE, on Flickr We certainly see some of the effects of temperature on velocity (and, perhaps, accuracy?  , although I'm certainly not complaining about the accuracy you were getting.
I'm been shooting a lot of the Wolf Gold .223 Rem. (which I've always assumed was just standard M193 regardless of what's printed on the Black box) over the past few years (along with M193 reloads using IMI and PPU M193 bullets) and have found it to be excellent ammo. I much prefer it to the domestic manufactured M193 types... Regardless of what I prefer, thanks again for braving the cold for this excellent test/video... Forrest |
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