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Posted: 2/22/2021 3:02:00 PM EDT
[#1]
What code? Q3131?
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Posted: 2/22/2021 3:27:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Bulk meaning loose packed, or bulk meaning 200 round 5.56 value pack? Does the box say 'target' on it?
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Posted: 2/22/2021 4:00:21 PM EDT
[#3]
It's marked WM193 in a value pack
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Posted: 2/22/2021 5:00:19 PM EDT
[#4]
The new Winchester 556 I've seen lately is Lake City.
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Posted: 2/22/2021 5:20:37 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What code? Q3131? Says WM193200. 200 round "TARGET" RANGE PACK 5.56mm 55 grain 3180 FPS |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 5:31:59 PM EDT
[#6]
CTD has it (for $300 for 200 rounds) and they call it 'lake city by winchester'.
If it's LC, it's probably good ammo. I wish I knew more. |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 6:06:28 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CTD has it (for $300 for 200 rounds) and they call it 'lake city by winchester'. If it's LC, it's probably good ammo. I wish I knew more. Same. No clue how any of it performs, but it doe say m193 |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 7:26:25 PM EDT
[#8]
If it's Winchester's M193 clone that was made in the US, it's one of the lousiest M193 clones that I've ever tested.
Here's the group that the Internet Commando would have posted . . .  Here's what it actually shoots like . . .  .... |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 7:45:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it's Winchester's M193 clone that was made in the US, it's one of the lousiest M193 clones that I've ever tested. Here's the group that the Internet Commando would have posted . . . Thank you for this. I had a feeling this stuff was likely the worst M193 clone on the market. What do you consider the best/better M193? CBC, IMI, Fiocchi, MEN, GECO/RUAG? |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 7:47:15 PM EDT
[#10]
 if it's what I think it Is from Winchester I got like 10 of those boxes from Walmart when they were clearing ammo out a year ago for like $32 a box
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Posted: 2/22/2021 8:08:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What do you consider the best/better M193? CBC, IMI, Fiocchi, MEN, GECO/RUAG? From purely an accuracy standpoint . . .   It's not a real M193 load since this load is at 223 Remington velocities and the bullet construction is different than the mil-spec bullet for M193.   .... |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 9:21:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Says WM193200. 200 round "TARGET" RANGE PACK 5.56mm 55 grain 3180 FPS Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What code? Q3131? Says WM193200. 200 round "TARGET" RANGE PACK 5.56mm 55 grain 3180 FPS What is the headstamps on the case? Is it LC? If it is, it's the same as Federal |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 9:41:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it's Winchester's M193 clone that was made in the US, it's one of the lousiest M193 clones that I've ever tested. Here's the group that the Internet Commando would have posted . . . https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/winchester_q3131_sub_moa_group_01-1837095.jpg Here's what it actually shoots like . . . https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/winchester_q3131_10_shot_group_at_100_ya-1837087.jpg .... And that's the answer I was looking for. Much thanks for sharing, molon! It is greatly appreciated. I guess I'll stick to federal XM193 and X855. |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 9:59:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And that's the answer I was looking for. Much thanks for sharing, molon! It is greatly appreciated. I guess I'll stick to federal XM193 and X855. What's the date on it? Winchester is loaded by LC now |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 10:02:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's the date on it? Winchester is loaded by LC now Brand new, loaded this year. |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 10:24:48 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 2/22/2021 10:32:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryIt would be interesting to see if there are any differences between LC Winchester and older pre-LC loadings |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 10:46:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would be interesting to see if there are any differences between LC Winchester and older pre-LC loadings Quote HistoryQuoted: It would be interesting to see if there are any differences between LC Winchester and older pre-LC loadings I haven't shot any newer Win but I've read and heard a fair amount of bitching in regards to accuracy with the newer loadings. For what that's worth..... |
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Posted: 2/22/2021 11:02:08 PM EDT
[#19]
I shot 6 full mags of this ammo today to function check and make sure a build was properly gassed today with and without suppressor. Shooting steel out to about 300 yards. It shot the same as Federal LC M193 does, they all produced the lovely "ding" sound when I did my part. Function wise, I haven't noticed a difference but wasn't exactly shooting for groups either.
Like all ammo in 2020/2021 - buy it if you can find it for an acceptable price. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 1:16:53 AM EDT
[#20]
What Winchester offerings you see on shelves today, both M193 and M855 variants, are the same you’d have seen a year ago from Federal. The box changed...that’s it. 80% of the workforce at LC is the same.
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Posted: 2/23/2021 1:39:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Everything is changing in the current climate. As others have pointed out, WInchester M193 is loaded at Lake City now. Even old standby's aren't the same. IMI downloaded the velocity of their M193 for commercial sale by ~ 100 FPS due to trying to accommodate more non spec guns without the customers having issues.
With everyone pumping out ammo as fast as they possibly can, I personally would not expect the finest quality of any ammo, especially the mass produced stuff. As most people are aware, when production speeds up, QC tends to drop. I'd expect 2020 and 2021 bulk produced ammo (FMJ) to be some of the most inconsistent ammo ever produced for accuracy, velocity, and standard deviation. It probably doesn't matter as most who are buying it now at these prices prob aren't even shooting it anyway so they won't even notice. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 5:58:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everything is changing in the current climate. As others have pointed out, WInchester M193 is loaded at Lake City now. Even old standby's aren't the same. IMI downloaded the velocity of their M193 for commercial sale by ~ 100 FPS due to trying to accommodate more non spec guns without the customers having issues. With everyone pumping out ammo as fast as they possibly can, I personally would not expect the finest quality of any ammo, especially the mass produced stuff. As most people are aware, when production speeds up, QC tends to drop. I'd expect 2020 and 2021 bulk produced ammo (FMJ) to be some of the most inconsistent ammo ever produced for accuracy, velocity, and standard deviation. It probably doesn't matter as most who are buying it now at these prices prob aren't even shooting it anyway so they won't even notice. I agree with the above. In the past, Win FMJ was my least favorite ammo due to accuracy. But today, who knows. I would always "find" the worst shooting ammo during the prior panicks when everyone is on OT pumping out ammo regardless of QC. OP is the headstamp WCC, Win, or LC? I doubt Winchester could have screwed up the ammo too bad if all they did was put their manager at the plant while using all the same components and equipment. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 6:11:28 PM EDT
[#23]
The 150 and 200 round Value Packs and Range Packs are made in Lake City.
The Headstamp is WIN 5.56 MM. It is beautifully annealed mil-spec Lake City Brass. Way better than the old Q3131 coming out of East Alton. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 6:43:16 PM EDT
[#24]
@Buffman_LT1
Your chrono and gel test services are required 
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Posted: 2/23/2021 7:01:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Buffman_LT1 Your chrono and gel test services are required He's too busy getting buff to bother responding to you!  WCW Buff Bagwell 4th Theme Song - "Buff Daddy" (With Tron) |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 9:07:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Buffman_LT1 Your chrono and gel test services are required |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 10:30:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Does anyone know if Winchester is still making 5.56 at their Oxford MS plant?
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Posted: 2/23/2021 11:25:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 150 and 200 round Value Packs and Range Packs are made in Lake City. The Headstamp is WIN 5.56 MM. It is beautifully annealed mil-spec Lake City Brass. Way better than the old Q3131 coming out of East Alton. The 150 rd box of Win M855 I got a month ago had a LC 20 headstamp |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 11:59:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you want me to see if arfcom will sponsor it? @buffman_lt1 how many rounds do you need for testing? shipping is a pain but i might be interested in doing it. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 12:04:13 AM EDT
[#30]
Way more than just 150 and 200 rd packs are made at LC now, regardless of headstamp. For those curious, I suggest you go pull up Winchester’s 2021 pdf catalogue. There’s an entire page of SKUs dedicated to them taking over LC.
Shake tests not withstanding, I wouldn’t worry about bulk pack Winchester Lake City stuff, if you even come across it (that’s not likely). Bulk pack ammo isn’t some inferior lot compared to what gets put in 20 round pack. Basic fact is...in this market with exponential demand...profit will be higher packing in 20/150/200 rd pack than any 500 or 1000 bulk. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:18:19 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Way more than just 150 and 200 rd packs are made at LC now, regardless of headstamp. For those curious, I suggest you go pull up Winchester's 2021 pdf catalogue. There's an entire page of SKUs dedicated to them taking over LC. Shake tests not withstanding, I wouldn't worry about bulk pack Winchester Lake City stuff, if you even come across it (that's not likely). Bulk pack ammo isn't some inferior lot compared to what gets put in 20 round pack. Basic fact is...in this market with exponential demand...profit will be higher packing in 20/150/200 rd pack than any 500 or 1000 bulk. It's not about bulk vs non-bulk packaging. It's about seeing if M193 coming out of LC is performing the same as before Winchester took over. Some manufactures have taken to gimping their 5.56 loads to accommodate US customers with over gassed guns. It would be helpful to know if Winchester has done the same |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:53:04 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @buffman_lt1 how many rounds do you need for testing? shipping is a pain but i might be interested in doing it. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:26:41 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 150 rd box of Win M855 I got a month ago had a LC 20 headstamp Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The 150 and 200 round Value Packs and Range Packs are made in Lake City. The Headstamp is WIN 5.56 MM. It is beautifully annealed mil-spec Lake City Brass. Way better than the old Q3131 coming out of East Alton. The 150 rd box of Win M855 I got a month ago had a LC 20 headstamp Here is the Ammo I have. Bought on Clearance from Bass Pro's Outlet store for $35 out the door in October of 2019! It has SMQ 19 lot numbers. Same as Lake City stuff from Federal.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 11:04:30 AM EDT
[#34]
Around 2019, wasn't LC producing 55gr FMJ for numerous companies ?
Winc. , Hornady, even Targetsports ? Was all the 55gr FMJ M193 Spec ? I can honestly say I don't remember. And @BigHunt thanks for your info concerning better precision... I also swore off Winc. Q3131 5.56 ages ago because the accuracy was so incredibly bad. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 2:40:32 PM EDT
[#35]
Any testing and review of Winchester's XM193 variant would be very appreciated, in case one day in the future I actually see some for sale.
And I would be very curious if the tested ammo was made in Lake City or one of Olin/Winchester's other usual plants (or maybe even Israel as in years past). |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:33:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here is the Ammo I have. Bought on Clearance from Bass Pro's Outlet store for $35 out the door in October of 2019! It has SMQ 19 lot numbers. Same as Lake City stuff from Federal. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/84076/20200324_210435_jpg-1839237.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/84076/15788524666365627595213388031826_jpg-123-1839238.JPG That timeframe and Lot #...that’s Lake City produced M193 under the previous operator (Northrop Grumman). Ironically, the contract was with Hornady, who then passed it on to Winchester. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 10:43:03 PM EDT
[#37]
Went to my smithy's shop today to drop off an old blackpowder piece that needed a firing pin and spring made and saw he had 8 boxes of this Winchester m193 ( 150 rounds per box ) . His price...well $134.95. No bargain there. At the NGD show last week 9mm , 5,56 and 7,62 anything was $1 to $1.50 per round...no exceptions. My buddy set up a table there and said Friday night ANYONE selling ammo under the rape price structure had all their stock bought up by the big dealers . They duly marked it up and put it out.
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Posted: 3/2/2021 12:12:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 100 rds for each model. That gives me 50-60 to perform 5 barrel length +/- me being an idiot, then 40 or so to check accuracy +/- me getting frustrated :D I would love to see a review! Plus I love watching your channel in general. @buffman_lt1 My m193 is loaded in LC brass  Lot number WLC21a815-046 |
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Posted: 3/7/2021 7:26:27 PM EDT
[#39]
That's what mine says.
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Posted: 3/7/2021 7:33:33 PM EDT
[#40]
That's what mine says.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 4:24:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Just received my order from Natchez.
1000 rd M193 LC head stamp |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 10:58:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just received my order from Natchez. 1000 rd M193 LC head stamp How much? I now have 1200 rounds of m193. I grab 400 each time from academy
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Posted: 3/8/2021 11:41:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Hell I’m shooting up a few cases of Q3131 from the end of the GW Bush presidency.
It’s still just as good or shitty as just about any M193 stuff made in the US has always been. Doubt that anything they’re making now is any different. |
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Posted: 3/9/2021 12:32:49 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it's Winchester's M193 clone that was made in the US, it's one of the lousiest M193 clones that I've ever tested. Here's the group that the Internet Commando would have posted . . . https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/winchester_q3131_sub_moa_group_01-1837095.jpg Here's what it actually shoots like . . . https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/winchester_q3131_10_shot_group_at_100_ya-1837087.jpg .... That top pic  I have a few cases of the stuff that I put away. Never shot it for accuracy though. |
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Posted: 3/12/2021 9:54:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you for this. I had a feeling this stuff was likely the worst M193 clone on the market. What do you consider the best/better M193? CBC, IMI, Fiocchi, MEN, GECO/RUAG? Of those I would buy all but Fiocchi. |
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Posted: 4/5/2021 7:26:09 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of those I would buy all but Fiocchi. IDK, fiocchi has been great for me. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 11:34:39 AM EDT
[#47]
I'm a little surprised by people's comment on Winchester 55gr FMJ ammo quality.
Back about 18 years ago I purchased my first case of ammo...it was Winchester white box Q3131. I shot it in my two AR's I had at the time (RRA and Bushmaster) and both gave good groups of about 2" from 100 yards and was totally reliable. I like the ammo enough that I ordered 3 more cases of which one case is my 5.56 SHTF ammo which I still have in my ammo locker. Since then I have shot it in many other AR's and it has always been totally reliable and always gave good accuracy. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 1:04:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a little surprised by people's comment on Winchester 55gr FMJ ammo quality. Back about 18 years ago I purchased my first case of ammo...it was Winchester white box Q3131. I shot it in my two AR's I had at the time (RRA and Bushmaster) and both gave good groups of about 2" from 100 yards and was totally reliable. I like the ammo enough that I ordered 3 more cases of which one case is my 5.56 SHTF ammo which I still have in my ammo locker. Since then I have shot it in many other AR's and it has always been totally reliable and always gave good accuracy. 18 years is a long time ago. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 3:37:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a little surprised by people's comment on Winchester 55gr FMJ ammo quality. Back about 18 years ago I purchased my first case of ammo...it was Winchester white box Q3131. I shot it in my two AR's I had at the time (RRA and Bushmaster) and both gave good groups of about 2" from 100 yards and was totally reliable. I like the ammo enough that I ordered 3 more cases of which one case is my 5.56 SHTF ammo which I still have in my ammo locker. Since then I have shot it in many other AR's and it has always been totally reliable and always gave good accuracy. .... |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 6:17:01 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryYes, saw your post above which is one of the reason I made my post. I just came home and opened the ammo locker to look at the ammo. One thing I noticed is that the ammo is actually Winchester Q3131A and made in Israel. I also looked up the difference between Q3131 and Q3131A and noticed that Q3131 is all made in USA while Q3131A is all made in Israel. |
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