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Posted: 4/18/2024 10:48:28 AM EDT
I see winchester  Q3131 with a velocity of 3270 fps printed on the box.

  I see winchester LC m193 with a velocity of 3180 fps printed on the box.

  I see Winchester service grade m193 with no velocity printed on the box. Some vendors advertise it as 3180 fps, others at 3240 fps.

  So what is the real scoop on the different velocities? And do  they all use the same 55gr. projectiles?  I.E...same jacket thickness, same core, etc.?

 Thanks
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 8:16:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06] [#1]
Link Posted: 4/21/2024 10:08:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Yeah as above, I think different barrel lengths are used for the various loads. Sometimes the ammo with a lower velocity printed on the box is actually hotter than the one with the lower velocity numbers due to barrel lengths.

I've got some of the recent Winchester ammo from Lake City in both .223 spec and 5.56. I have NOT chrono'ed them but the POI of the 5.56 was 1-2" higher at 100 yards telling me it was loaded a little hotter. The exterior of the cartridges are identical though. Accuracy for both was not bad and identical to the Federal Lake City ammo from a few years ago.

I think any ammo from LC will be on par and pretty good. Various "Q" loadings from Winchester can be hit or miss. (no pun intended)
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 7:53:18 AM EDT
[#3]
industry standard for velocities is to use 24" barrels for .223 and 20" barrels for 5.56
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 10:53:15 PM EDT
[#4]
I understand differences in .223 and 5.56 and the 20" test barrel for 5.56 vs. longer test barrels for .223. I guess what I'm asking, is Q3131 M193? Is Q3131 loaded with the same bullet (projectile) as Winchester LC M193? Is Q3131 the same as Winchester LC M193?
  Winchester advertises Q3131 at 3270fps on the box and the box marked M193 at 3180fps on the box. Is the test barrel longer than 20" for Q3131?
   The brown "Service Grade" box doesn't seem to suggest any fps velocity.

   Thanks again, just trying to wrap my head around the specifics of these Winchester loads.
Link Posted: 4/24/2024 6:32:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: billclo] [#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hooch0311:
I understand differences in .223 and 5.56 and the 20" test barrel for 5.56 vs. longer test barrels for .223. I guess what I'm asking, is Q3131 M193? Is Q3131 loaded with the same bullet (projectile) as Winchester LC M193? Is Q3131 the same as Winchester LC M193?
  Winchester advertises Q3131 at 3270fps on the box and the box marked M193 at 3180fps on the box. Is the test barrel longer than 20" for Q3131?
   The brown "Service Grade" box doesn't seem to suggest any fps velocity.

   Thanks again, just trying to wrap my head around the specifics of these Winchester loads.
View Quote


Looking at a copy of the 2021 Winchester catalog I found earlier, they list different ballistic coefficients for the M193 and .223 Remington load, so I suspect they are using different bullets.


https://imgur.com/a/4Frdh0r
Link Posted: 4/24/2024 2:21:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Are the Win LC 223 primers staked?

Why is Win selling LC 223? I thought LC was the gov manufacturing facility for mil which should be 5.56/M183.
Link Posted: 4/24/2024 4:57:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lysanderxiii] [#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gotigers:
Are the Win LC 223 primers staked?

Why is Win selling LC 223? I thought LC was the gov manufacturing facility for mil which should be 5.56/M183.
View Quote

The buildings and equipment at Lake City are owned by the government, however, the contractor can replace the dies and produce anything they want, provided it does not interfere with Government contracts (and maintain the equipment).

That is the reason, the operations contract for the AAPs are so coveted.  The whole point of having GO/CO ammunition plants is so that the the machinery is kept in use and maintained, and the work force is properly trained in its operation.  The best way to do that is allow the contractor to make whatever them deem marketable when military/government contracts are lean.
Link Posted: 4/25/2024 7:04:30 AM EDT
[#8]
Since all replies elude to .223, I take it that Q3131 at 3270fps is a .223 load instead of 5.56 as stated on the box and uses a different projectile than M193. And Lake City M193 is Winchesters only 55gr. 5.56 loading.
Link Posted: 4/25/2024 9:47:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hooch0311:
Since all replies elude to .223, I take it that Q3131 at 3270fps is a .223 load instead of 5.56 as stated on the box and uses a different projectile than M193. And Lake City M193 is Winchesters only 55gr. 5.56 loading.
View Quote

That is not the case. Q3131 is a 5.56mm commercial load. Lake City load is also a 5.56mm load for M193 spec. M193 Spec has a specific testing protocol for distance the velocity is taken from. The Q313 might be from the muzzle.
Link Posted: 4/25/2024 9:53:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Thank you smash05 for the clear answer. I understand now.
Link Posted: 4/26/2024 7:23:16 AM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 4/30/2024 12:50:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:


And to add to this answer... and these might not still be produced, but... Winchester has sold them before.
Q3131A, is from IMI production.
Q3131A1 is from Korea

FWIW... I gave up on Winc. 55gr FMJ ammo years ago. The groups sizes were horrible compared to other brands at the time.
That might have changed , in the current production stuff.
I mention this if your are considering a bulk purchase... as in I would try some first, prior to buying in bulk.

View Quote

Same here. I was reluctant to try Win bulk ammo again until that rebate from last year. Anyway I got a case of the .223 bulk pack for $300 after the rebate. That ammo has shot great and I even counted every single cartridge (I bagged them in 50 round ziplock bags) and there were EXACTLY 1000 rounds in the big plastic bag/case

Then I bought another 500 rounds of the 556 "XM193" load and it has shot great also. I believe the primers are staked in both the 223 and 556 versions (cases and headstamps look identical) but there is no sign of sealant.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 7:39:01 AM EDT
[#13]
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