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Posted: 11/28/2018 12:07:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Looks interesting. Thanks for turning me on to it. I think I'll buy some for testing. It would be nice if someone could also do some gel tests on it.
I know this is a different loading and product number, but I wonder if it is the same bullet as the 5.56 loading? Looks like it performs impressively in gel! Not sure how it is against barriers / hard targets though.  .223 Remington, 62gr OTM (Q3340) Winchester LE, Traning Only, Gel Test |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 1:25:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Ammo has been acquired! The flyer from the LGS states this is good for 1X8 or 1X9 twist. We shall see.
5.56mm 62 gr Open-Tip. What's up with the "Made in Sweden"?  Attached FileOpening the case, it reveals five 180 round boxes:  Attached FilePeeling the onion more, each 180 rd box has six 30 round boxes within. It's like a Russian nesting doll.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 1:27:11 PM EDT
[#3]
The cartridges. The cases look clean compared to Federal XM855:
 Attached FileThe primers are crimped.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 2:58:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Interesting. Sealed and crimped primers. Are the bullet necks sealed as well? You going to do any testing with this round (chrony, gel, accuracy)? I'd lover to get a bullet length measurement and powder weight per cartridge as well.
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Posted: 12/1/2018 9:42:24 PM EDT
[#5]
The bullet necks do not appear to be sealed. Also, the Winchester bullet doesn't have a cannelure that is visible compared to Federal XM855
 Attached FileI'll cronograph around the beginning of the spring along with accuracy testing. Never did any gel tests before. That might be interesting. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 9:54:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Might you be able to pull one of the bullets and weigh the powder charge and check out the bullet?
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Posted: 12/2/2018 3:14:57 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Might you be able to pull one of the bullets and weigh the powder charge and check out the bullet? |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 3:41:41 AM EDT
[#8]
I can’t speak to this specific load (USA3162W) but the Q3340, the purple LE training load has been exceptionally accurate in 1/7 barrels.
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Posted: 12/2/2018 1:03:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Carl Gustaf of Sweden does use primer crimps like that..
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Posted: 12/2/2018 2:00:52 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 12/2/2018 5:12:53 PM EDT
[#11]
I have a kinetic bullet puller but no powder measure. I pulled a bullet and will defer to a friend to measure the powder and should have that info this week.
 Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 5:45:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Wow, so the bullet is sealed!!! Decent amount of powder in there too. Seems like a good round. The lack of cannelure may be a good thing as the HP would already help it to fragment, and often times the low grain (<75 grain) open tip rounds don't penetrate so deeply. No cannelure could help prevent that and allow it to go deeper!
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Posted: 12/2/2018 7:13:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Made in Sweden and with that style of primer crimp, make me think it's made by RUAG or NAMMO
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Posted: 12/2/2018 8:27:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Looks to be a nice score. I'd be in for running some of that.
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Posted: 12/3/2018 1:33:49 PM EDT
[#15]
I would have every expectation for that ammo to be considerably more accurate than ball ammo, for near the same price.
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Posted: 12/3/2018 1:42:43 PM EDT
[#16]
I should have mentioned, the sale price was until 12-2-2018. It's back up now. It didn't seem they moved many cases, so I'd expect they'll be discounted at a future time.
I do have expectations this will be more accurate than XM193 and XM855. |
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Posted: 12/3/2018 3:07:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I should have mentioned, the sale price was until 12-2-2018. It's back up now. It didn't seem they moved many cases, so I'd expect they'll be discounted at a future time. I do have expectations this will be more accurate than XM193 and XM855. I'm more interested in the terminal performance / ability vs. just straight accuracy. Oh, one other question. Your picture doesn't show the base of the bullet, is it open lead base or closed jacket on the base? Thanks! |
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Posted: 12/3/2018 6:01:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You didn't mention where you bought it from or if they had online ordering. I'm more interested in the terminal performance / ability vs. just straight accuracy. Oh, one other question. Your picture doesn't show the base of the bullet, is it open lead base or closed jacket on the base? Thanks! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I should have mentioned, the sale price was until 12-2-2018. It's back up now. It didn't seem they moved many cases, so I'd expect they'll be discounted at a future time. I do have expectations this will be more accurate than XM193 and XM855. I'm more interested in the terminal performance / ability vs. just straight accuracy. Oh, one other question. Your picture doesn't show the base of the bullet, is it open lead base or closed jacket on the base? Thanks! When I googled the SKU...…..a lot came up...…….but don't turn this into a "Where can I find" thread, it'll get locked.... |
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Posted: 12/3/2018 6:11:08 PM EDT
[#19]
LGS is Davis Sport Center in Sloatsburg NY. They have a website but it doesn't look like they do Internet sales.
Believe it or not, most of NY likes the shooting sports. The urban dwellers from the lower part of the State seriously outnumber us in the elections. Bullet is closed jacket. |
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Posted: 12/3/2018 11:30:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Willing to sell/donate 150 rounds for me to test?
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Posted: 12/3/2018 11:53:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Willing to sell/donate 150 rounds for me to test? @Buffman it would be very interesting to see how this performs in gel compared to Magtech's 62 grain FMJ load. It will also be interesting to see if the velocities match up as well. |
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Posted: 12/6/2018 10:28:16 AM EDT
[#22]
I think this was the FBI training load to go with the Ranger Bonded and the Federal FBIT3.
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Posted: 12/6/2018 11:41:09 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think this was the FBI training load to go with the Ranger Bonded and the Federal FBIT3. |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 7:33:52 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That would be a great way for you to know how good your ammo is (and for the rest of us) as buffman does both velocity AND gel testing! @Buffman it would be very interesting to see how this performs in gel compared to Magtech's 62 grain FMJ load. It will also be interesting to see if the velocities match up as well. 
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Posted: 12/8/2018 11:55:13 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think that USA Gov contract FBI loads would be made overseas in Sweden. |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 8:43:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Did you ever get a powder measure? Get a chance to shoot any yet?
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Posted: 12/11/2018 9:28:27 AM EDT
[#27]
I haz 150 rounds in possession..
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Posted: 12/11/2018 9:39:38 AM EDT
[#28]
I was under the impression that the purpose of open tip was more for accuracy than penetration, fragmentation, or expansion.
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Posted: 12/11/2018 11:55:18 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haz 150 rounds in possession.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haz 150 rounds in possession.. And, of course, how the South African M193 will compare to both in terms of fragmentation at the lower velocity. Quoted:
I was under the impression that the purpose of open tip was more for accuracy than penetration, fragmentation, or expansion. The lack of cannelure is interesting because it also usually aids in fragmentation, but can reduce accuracy. The 69 grain OTM's with cannelure usually have impressive fragmentation but usually come up short in the penetration department, usually coming in a inch or two short of the 12" FBI specified minimum. I'm wondering if the 62 grain's lack of cannelure will allow it to penetrate deeper while still fragmenting due to the open tip design. |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 12:17:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you ever get a powder measure? Get a chance to shoot any yet?
On my end, it's hunting season at both clubs I belong to, so no shooting until end of December and it likely be too frigging cold to be out shooting. Now that Buffman has the supplied ammo, hopefully he is inspired to do all his testing for the interest of the hive. |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 12:33:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My coworker failed me due to family. What a putz.
On my end, it's hunting season at both clubs I belong to, so no shooting until end of December and it likely be too frigging cold to be out shooting. Now that Buffman has the supplied ammo, hopefully he is inspired to do all his testing for the interest of the hive. You been hitting the gym and staying Buff, Buffman? Are you still buff and still the stuff? Buffman's Theme Song!!! |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 11:32:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's hope that Buffman is BUFF enough to do the testing, even though it is a little chilly outside. You been hitting the gym and staying Buff, Buffman? Are you still buff and still the stuff? Buffman's Theme Song!!! Model:USA3162W UPC: 20892223943 Origin: Sweden Lot: 170300 12-28 Cartridge Overall Weight:190.4 Overall Length: 2.2285" Powder charge: 26.50gr Bullet Weight: 61.60 gr Bullet Length: 0.8325" Bullet Diameter: .224" Boxer Non Magnetic Sealed Primer and Bullet Crimped Primer |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 12:35:56 AM EDT
[#33]
That's an impressive powder charge, and the bullet length makes it compatible with 1-12" twist barrels, much like the fusion bullet. I'm REALLY interested to see how it stacks up against the Magtech 62 grain FMJ now, both velocity and gel wise (with using the South African M193 as a control).
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Posted: 12/12/2018 12:45:10 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's an impressive powder charge, and the bullet length makes it compatible with 1-12" twist barrels, much like the fusion bullet. I'm REALLY interested to see how it stacks up against the Magtech 62 grain FMJ now, both velocity and gel wise (with using the South African M193 as a control). |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 8:43:12 AM EDT
[#35]
I never heard of the Desert Tech, looks like some kind of bull pup? Interesting. How does it compare to the Tavor?
For the gel tests, lower velocities from SBRs would be more telling for effectiveness as high velocities make most rounds perform well. You test the gel blocks with a chrony in front of them to record the velocity of the impact shot correct? The Magtech 62 grain 5.56, Winchester OTM 62 grain 5.56 and the South African M193 are all on the list to test when you go out? |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 10:00:23 AM EDT
[#36]
Looks very interesting
Would be good if we could identify the Swedish source/maker too Tagged for shooting test results |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 10:05:25 AM EDT
[#37]
Since both of these 62gr rounds are unknowns as far as terminal ballistics goes, it would be very informative to get gel shot info from both short and long barrels. I think that out of a 7.5" barrel (esp in cold temps), these rounds would be below typical expected frag velocities
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Posted: 12/12/2018 10:30:57 AM EDT
[#38]
@Buffman_LT1
DesertTech MDR... very nice. Be sure to post some photos of that as well.... and impressions. That rifle is on my short list. And how long did you have to wait ? |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 12:57:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Buffman_LT1 DesertTech MDR... very nice. Be sure to post some photos of that as well.... and impressions. That rifle is on my short list. And how long did you have to wait ? I will bring all 5 barrel length for the test, but will concentrate on the shorter ones for gel. I have a list going of what to test, so hopefully I can get it all done. I'm supposed to be testing this old ass 7.62x39mm 8M3 as well. |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 1:57:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Subbed for results.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 12:19:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I borrowed my friends MDR. He was like "Hey I waited for this a long time, do you want to test it out". UMM Heck yes~! I will bring all 5 barrel length for the test, but will concentrate on the shorter ones for gel. I have a list going of what to test, so hopefully I can get it all done. I'm supposed to be testing this old ass 7.62x39mm 8M3 as well. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 4:01:09 PM EDT
[#42]
Just did a round of chrony testing with the Winchester 5.56mm 62 grain OTM yesterday. My batch of ammo is 2017 production, Lot # 170301 01-31. Temperature was around 53 degrees F and the chrony was shot from 3 yards / 9 feet from the muzzles. Tested it with a 18" and 18.5" FN CHF barrels.
18” CHF 1. 2,874 L 2. 3,021 H 3. 3,010 4. 2,952 5. 3,002 6. 2,966 7. 2,996 8. 3,014 9. 3,002 10. 2,991 AVG: 2,983 fps ES: 147 SD: 44 18.5” CHF 1. 2,964 2. 2,989 3. 2,993 4. 2,893 5. 2,884 L 6. 3,017 7. 3,107 H 8. 3,019 9. 2,958 10. 3,017 AVG: 2,984 fps ES: 223 SD: 65 (difference from 18” 1 fps) Unfortunately, I did not have a 20" barrel to test it from but it's doubtful there would have been much of a difference / velocity gain as the 18.5" barrel gives near 20" barrel velocities from all of my prior testings. The listed velocity on the packaging is 3,060 which is obviously from a test barrel. By comparison, I tested out two prior non M855 62 grain 5.56 loads (Magtech and Hornady) HERE! The Magtech 5.56 62 grain FMJ (non M855) chronied out to around 3,040 and 3,060 from the 18" and 18.5" barrels respectively. Which is M855 velocities and right in line with what Magtech claims on their website for muzzle velocity (3,080 fps). Hornady frontier 5.56 62 grain FMJ (non M855) chronied at around 100 FPS lower than the Magtech, at around 2,940 FPS. While Magtech is pretty much loaded up to top end 5.56 specs for a 62 grain round, it will be interesting to see if the bullet design of the Winchester OTM makes up for that in the gel tests. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 4:57:21 PM EDT
[#43]
Any chance you noted the MOA?
I might hit a public indoor range that can go out to 100 yards to get a sense of accuracy. But I have to pay by the hour. 
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Posted: 12/16/2018 5:11:19 PM EDT
[#44]
I’ve test the ammo through my Colt A4 20” and the Zenith Z43P 12” this weekend.
The A4 doesn’t like it, doing around 3.5” 10rd at 100. The Z43P did better around 2” Have other 5.56 rifles to try out but as of now, I don’t think it would be my preferred general ‘accurate’ plinking round. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 2:14:47 AM EDT
[#45]
I will get back out tomorrow to get the gel test done. It was dusk when I got to the gel today (got out there late), and didn't want to chance it.
Accuracy from my 22" TC Compass from a rest .84" at 100 yard 5 shot group.
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Posted: 12/17/2018 7:28:44 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've test the ammo through my Colt A4 20" and the Zenith Z43P 12" this weekend. The A4 doesn't like it, doing around 3.5" 10rd at 100. The Z43P did better around 2" Have other 5.56 rifles to try out but as of now, I don't think it would be my preferred general 'accurate' plinking round. I zero with M855 out of any upper with an RDS or low power optic like an ACOG. Not my top choice but it will be the most prevalent in SHTF and for minute of man at realistic distances. Shooting something like 75-77 gr OTM all the time is not cost effective but it certainly yields best result across the board. 2.5 MOA with 77 gr is the worst I've seen out of an upper that is hovering around the 4 MOA range with XM855. Don't reload either. I've documented groups and POI for XM193, XM855, CBC 77 gr OTM for every upper I have just so I know what to expect as every barrel is different. Also lets me know which ones don't need the pricey ammo to get acceptable results for range time. I'm hoping the Winchester 62 gr OT will be a poor man's 77 gr with respect to accuracy on the range. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 8:06:28 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are you shooting that you consider accurate for plinking in your setups? I'm always looking to try other ammo. I zero with M855 out of any upper with an RDS or low power optic like an ACOG. Not my top choice but it will be the most prevalent in SHTF and for minute of man at realistic distances. Shooting something like 75-77 gr OTM all the time is not cost effective but it certainly yields best result across the board. 2.5 MOA with 77 gr is the worst I've seen out of an upper that is hovering around the 4 MOA range with XM855. Don't reload either. I've documented groups and POI for XM193, XM855, CBC 77 gr OTM for every upper I have just so I know what to expect as every barrel is different. Also lets me know which ones don't need the pricey ammo to get acceptable results for range time. I'm hoping the Winchester 62 gr OT will be a poor man's 77 gr with respect to accuracy on the range. So far, the only sub-$0.32/rd ammo that does this in ALMOST ALL of my 5.56 rifles is the Norma 223 55gr FMJ, the GECO 223 55gr FMJ, and the older production '14-'15 AE 50gr 'varmint tip'. The only one that does not like it was the Zenith Z43P. FYI, the newer production AE 50gr 'varmint tip' I've tried last year did not perform well. I do have rifles like the Daewoo DR200, Colt SP-1, and Brownells XBRN-15E1 that have a slower twist rate, so for me 50/55gr ammo is the way to go. Even some of the slightly more costly options like the CBC/Magtech 77gr OTM, Hornady Steel 75gr OTM, won't perform well in ALL/MOST of my 5.56 rifles, even when they have a faster 1/7 twist. Though, the Magtech 77gr OTM and Hornady Steel 75gr OTM both performed great in most of my rifles with 1/7 twist. And again, the only one that does not like it was the Zenith Z43P. (it only seem to like the Winchester 62gr OT) IIRC, all of my AR pattern rifles with 1/7 twist barrel liked the 2 mentioned ammo. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 8:33:06 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After trying numerous different types of ammo, for my own personal standard I would consider consistent ~2MOA capable ammo to be 'accurate plinking ammo'. So far, the only sub-$0.32/rd ammo that does this in ALMOST ALL of my 5.56 rifles is the Norma 223 55gr FMJ, the GECO 223 55gr FMJ, and the older production '14-'15 AE 50gr 'varmint tip'. The only one that does not like it was the Zenith Z43P. FYI, the newer production AE 50gr 'varmint tip' I've tried last year did not perform well. I do have rifles like the Daewoo DR200, Colt SP-1, and Brownells XBRN-15E1 that have a slower twist rate, so for me 50/55gr ammo is the way to go. Even some of the slightly more costly options like the CBC/Magtech 77gr OTM, Hornady Steel 75gr OTM, won't perform well in ALL/MOST of my 5.56 rifles, even when they have a faster 1/7 twist. Though, the Magtech 77gr OTM and Hornady Steel 75gr OTM both performed great in most of my rifles with 1/7 twist. And again, the only one that does not like it was the Zenith Z43P. (it only seem to like the Winchester 62gr OT) IIRC, all of my AR pattern rifles with 1/7 twist barrel liked the 2 mentioned ammo. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 8:58:13 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After trying numerous different types of ammo, for my own personal standard I would consider consistent ~2MOA capable ammo to be 'accurate plinking ammo'. So far, the only sub-$0.32/rd ammo that does this in ALMOST ALL of my 5.56 rifles is the Norma 223 55gr FMJ, the GECO 223 55gr FMJ, and the older production '14-'15 AE 50gr 'varmint tip'. The only one that does not like it was the Zenith Z43P. FYI, the newer production AE 50gr 'varmint tip' I've tried last year did not perform well. I do have rifles like the Daewoo DR200, Colt SP-1, and Brownells XBRN-15E1 that have a slower twist rate, so for me 50/55gr ammo is the way to go. Even some of the slightly more costly options like the CBC/Magtech 77gr OTM, Hornady Steel 75gr OTM, won't perform well in ALL/MOST of my 5.56 rifles, even when they have a faster 1/7 twist. Though, the Magtech 77gr OTM and Hornady Steel 75gr OTM both performed great in most of my rifles with 1/7 twist. And again, the only one that does not like it was the Zenith Z43P. (it only seem to like the Winchester 62gr OT) IIRC, all of my AR pattern rifles with 1/7 twist barrel liked the 2 mentioned ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What are you shooting that you consider accurate for plinking in your setups? I'm always looking to try other ammo. I zero with M855 out of any upper with an RDS or low power optic like an ACOG. Not my top choice but it will be the most prevalent in SHTF and for minute of man at realistic distances. Shooting something like 75-77 gr OTM all the time is not cost effective but it certainly yields best result across the board. 2.5 MOA with 77 gr is the worst I've seen out of an upper that is hovering around the 4 MOA range with XM855. Don't reload either. I've documented groups and POI for XM193, XM855, CBC 77 gr OTM for every upper I have just so I know what to expect as every barrel is different. Also lets me know which ones don't need the pricey ammo to get acceptable results for range time. I'm hoping the Winchester 62 gr OT will be a poor man's 77 gr with respect to accuracy on the range. So far, the only sub-$0.32/rd ammo that does this in ALMOST ALL of my 5.56 rifles is the Norma 223 55gr FMJ, the GECO 223 55gr FMJ, and the older production '14-'15 AE 50gr 'varmint tip'. The only one that does not like it was the Zenith Z43P. FYI, the newer production AE 50gr 'varmint tip' I've tried last year did not perform well. I do have rifles like the Daewoo DR200, Colt SP-1, and Brownells XBRN-15E1 that have a slower twist rate, so for me 50/55gr ammo is the way to go. Even some of the slightly more costly options like the CBC/Magtech 77gr OTM, Hornady Steel 75gr OTM, won't perform well in ALL/MOST of my 5.56 rifles, even when they have a faster 1/7 twist. Though, the Magtech 77gr OTM and Hornady Steel 75gr OTM both performed great in most of my rifles with 1/7 twist. And again, the only one that does not like it was the Zenith Z43P. (it only seem to like the Winchester 62gr OT) IIRC, all of my AR pattern rifles with 1/7 twist barrel liked the 2 mentioned ammo. Back to this topic, I look forward to accuracy reports on this 62gr ammo |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 10:25:44 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will get back out tomorrow to get the gel test done. It was dusk when I got to the gel today (got out there late), and didn't want to chance it. Accuracy from my 22" TC Compass from a rest .84" at 100 yard 5 shot group.
Something seems off as they are advertised at 3,060 velocity, and your results were way over that! No M855 I've ever seen chronies that fast, and those are 62 grain bullets loaded at near top end pressure. You got near M193 velocities!!! You plan to gel test them alongside the 62 grain 5.56 fmj Magtech and the 55 grain South African M193, right? From both a short and a long barrel? |
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