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Posted: 2/23/2021 11:42:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Maybe if we can get enough people to comment on this thread they will take notice and really take it seriously.
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Posted: 2/23/2021 12:15:52 PM EDT
[#2]
I wish you the best of luck with Nightforce, but I have to ask what is the need for another $1500. SFP 1-4, or 6, or 8 or 10 will bring to the table, that is not currently filled by: the Vortex PST and Razor 1-6 flavors, the Steiner SFP 1-4, the Sig Sauer SFP versions of the Tango 6, Swampfox Arrowhead SFP 1-6, 1-8, 1-10, Athlon Cronus, Midas, Helos, Argos, LPVO's, PA's various SFP iterations, just to name as few.
From low to high priced there are a plethora of SFP LVPO's to satisfy just about everybody except Nightforce users I guess. I get it, they are not Nightforce scopes.....But still how are they going to sell?? |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 1:24:52 PM EDT
[#3]
China: Most, if not all, of the budget optics you mentioned, are made in China. If I can avoid it, I will not buy anything made in China. I am the guy that returns items that are made in China and spends extra coin if they are made in America, Japan, or Germany. I get that we have no choice for various household/consumer items but it is an easy choice for anything 2A related ... not to buy from our enemy. I think that removes 90% of SFP 1-4/6/8 optics.
Durability and Warranty: I think durability and warranty are also high on my list. I know that all optic manufacturers have some issues and some need to be repaired. IMO, Nightforce is one of the safer/default manufacturers to buy from as their products have held up in my experience. Again, not to immediately discount other manufactures durability and warranty but NF is a safe bet. Dimensions: The 17 oz and 8.75" dimensions of the NX8 1-8 body is very attractive to me, I just wish it was SFP. The Sig TANGO6T and the Razor 1-6 II E are not something you would readily put on an 11-12" AR. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 1:44:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: China: Most, if not all, of the budget optics you mentioned, are made in China. If I can avoid it, I will not buy anything made in China. I am the guy that returns items that are made in China and spends extra coin if they are made in America, Japan, or Germany. I get that we have no choice for various household/consumer items but it is an easy choice for anything 2A related ... not to buy from our enemy. I think that removes 90% of SFP 1-4/6/8 optics. Durability and Warranty: I think durability and warranty are also high on my list. While the European optics are high on the list for functionality, their warranty [in general] is not the same as Vortex [Razor], SIG, Leupold, and Nightforce. I know that all optic manufacturers have some issues and some need to be repaired. IMO, Nightforce is one of the safer/default manufacturers to buy from as their products have held up in my experience. Again, not to immediately discount other manufactures durability and warranty but NF is a safe bet. Dimension: The 17 oz and 8.75" dimensions of the NX8 1-8 body is very attractive to me, I just wish it was SFP. The Sig Tango 1-6T and the Razor 1-6 II E are not something you would put on a MK18 or an 11-12" AR. Agreed with you regarding China, NF reliability and size/weight of the other LPVOs. However, the 2.5-10x24 is SFP, weights 17 oz and is only an 1.1" longer than the nx8. Do you think a new NF LPVO would fill a gap that the existing 2.5-10x24 (paired with offset irons or red dot) can't fulfill? I only ask because right now I'm debating between a LPVO or x24. I'm think the x24 with offset irons/red dot has more utility, but I wonder if there is something I'm missing. I've only recently tried a piggyback red dot on my ACOG, and I've been so impressed by it, I wonder if it's even worth messing with LPVOs. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:09:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed with you regarding China, NF reliability and size/weight of the other LPVOs. However, the 2.5-10x24 is SFP, weights 17 oz and is only an 1.1" longer than the nx8. Do you think a new NF LPVO would fill a gap that the existing 2.5-10x24 (paired with offset irons or red dot) can't fulfill? I only ask because right now I'm debating between a LPVO or x24. I'm think the x24 with offset irons/red dot has more utility, but I wonder if there is something I'm missing. I've only recently tried a piggyback red dot on my ACOG, and I've been so impressed by it, I wonder if it's even worth messing with LPVOs. I think it depends on your barrel length. If you have a 16-20" barrel then that setup [2.5-10x with RDS] would make 100% sense. But why wouldn't you just buy the ATACR 1-8 with their new 2021 reticle. If you had a 10-14.5" barrel then I would want the NX8 1-8 body in SFP. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:26:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Why SFP? Mostly everyone else pushes for FFP for ranging/mildots/holdovers.
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:32:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why SFP? Mostly everyone else pushes for FFP for ranging/mildots/holdovers. Because generally speaking, scopes can exhibit a better eyebox and glass with SFP, all things equal. Just less things going on inside the tube, essentially. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:32:56 PM EDT
[#8]
4. On a shot barrel AR you are likely using 1x and the top end only.
3. It is much easier to make a nuclear bright red dot at 1x on an SFP. 2. At the top end, you can have the same simple reticle. The red dot becomes a large circle at 8x in the FFP NX8 1-8x and the FFP ATACR 1-8x. In fact, they just updated the reticle for the ATACR 1-8x because the red dot circle was too wide at 8x in their older model. 1. The eyebox on the NX8 1-8x is not good. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:52:35 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm in for one
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:32:56 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm alright with the FFP in the NX8. The reticle could use a little work, but it's not terrible. Make it a 6x. Put K16i glass in it with same or better eyebox. Capped turrets.
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:33:41 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm alright with the FFP in the NX8. The reticle could use a little work, but it's not terrible. Make it a 6x. Put K16i glass in it with same or better eyebox. Capped turrets.
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:42:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm alright with the FFP in the NX8. The reticle could use a little work, but it's not terrible. Make it a 6x. Put K16i glass in it with same or better eyebox. Capped turrets. Update the FFP NX8 and create a 2FP NX8 ... best of both worlds. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:45:42 PM EDT
[#13]
The nx8 eyebox is fine. With the advancements you're likely to see ffp doing more than reinventing the sfp.
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Posted: 2/23/2021 5:10:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Nightforce—for the love of god whatever you do don’t make another lpvo with exposed non-locking elevation.
I’d buy a 15oz 1-6 sfp Nxs. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 5:11:04 PM EDT
[#15]
And yes the Nx8 eyebox is fine.
Both eyes open plus the nuclear dot—like shooting a red dot. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 3:35:13 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why SFP? Mostly everyone else pushes for FFP for ranging/mildots/holdovers. A SFP 1-6 has the potential of being lighter, better visually and giving you a much finer aiming point (reticle) at 6x or 8x. You retain daylight bright 1x. Imagine a Vortex Razor with the NF weight and footprint. Oh ya, and cap the elevation turret! One LPVO to rule them all!!! I made an almost identical request to NF as OP. I have owned every LPVO. I would buy 5 of these, today, son! |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 4:02:13 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A SFP 1-6 has the potential of being lighter, better visually and giving you a much finer aiming point (reticle) at 6x or 8x. You retain daylight bright 1x. Imagine a Vortex Razor with the NF weight and footprint. Oh ya, and cap the elevation turret! One LPVO to rule them all!!! I made an almost identical request to NF as OP. I have owned every LPVO. I would buy 5 of these, today, son! I agree with all of this. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:20:14 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why SFP? Mostly everyone else pushes for FFP for ranging/mildots/holdovers. Nobody does any of that shit with an LPVO on less than max mag. FFP LPVOs are the product of the internet. They suck. I’ve talked with NF about the same thing as OP and they acted like since the NX8 was the product of a government contract, it was perfect. The size, weight, and durability of it is the only thing it has going for it. The reticle and turret arrangement are straight up retarded and the glass quality is garbage for the money. I hate Vortex Optics but this is no shit. Yesterday I shot a Viper PST 1-6 on a RRA carbine and it had a better image and a better reticle at 1X than the NX8s I’ve used. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:24:03 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nightforce—for the love of god whatever you do don’t make another lpvo with exposed non-locking elevation. I’d buy a 15oz 1-6 sfp Nxs. Only law enforcement deserves covered turrets. I had the elevation turret rattle loose on my NX8 a few times because that tiny little screw at 10 inches doesn’t hold that big ass turret. That was my final straw with them. Fuck a cocksucker that only sells shit to the mil or LE. Fuck ‘em. Will never buy another one. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:24:05 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody does any of that shit with an LPVO on less than max mag. FFP LPVOs are the product of the internet. They suck. I’ve talked with NF about the same thing as OP and they acted like since the NX8 was the product of a government contract, it was perfect. The size, weight, and durability of it is the only thing it has going for it. The reticle and turret arrangement are straight up retarded and the glass quality is garbage for the money. I hate Vortex Optics but this is no shit. Yesterday I shot a Viper PST 1-6 on a RRA carbine and it had a better image and a better reticle at 1X than the NX8s I’ve used. Lots of dudes including myself use the intermediate magnification settings. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:38:52 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of dudes including myself use the intermediate magnification settings. Yup. If someone says they only use 1x or max I pretty much ignore everything else they are saying. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:44:22 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 4. On a shot barrel AR you are likely using 1x and the top end only. 3. It is much easier to make a nuclear bright red dot at 1x on an SFP. 2. At the top end, you can have the same simple reticle. The red dot becomes a large circle at 8x in the FFP NX8 1-8x and the FFP ATACR 1-8x. In fact, they just updated the reticle for the ATACR 1-8x because the red dot circle was too wide at 8x in their older model. 1. The eyebox on the NX8 1-8x is not good. Yes, the NX8 eye box is worse than the ATACR. Does the difference actually appear in timed shooting courses of fire? For me, no. I mount and index the gun for both, and the reticle is there. Press the trigger. The ATACR is better due to glass clarity, reticle, light transmission. While the eye box is better than the nx8, there are other reasons to go for one or the other. Size, weight, glass reticle. For me, I think that first focal plane offers significant advantages over second focal plane optics when it comes to communicating ranging or measurements to others - this may not be applicable to you or your use case. For you, it sounds like you would be happier with a 2.5-10x24 and just offset a dot |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 11:15:04 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. If someone says they only use 1x or max I pretty much ignore everything else they are saying. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lots of dudes including myself use the intermediate magnification settings. Yup. If someone says they only use 1x or max I pretty much ignore everything else they are saying. Agreed. I have no problem with my FFP Nightforce NX8. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 11:36:58 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of dudes including myself use the intermediate magnification settings. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nobody does any of that shit with an LPVO on less than max mag. FFP LPVOs are the product of the internet. They suck. I’ve talked with NF about the same thing as OP and they acted like since the NX8 was the product of a government contract, it was perfect. The size, weight, and durability of it is the only thing it has going for it. The reticle and turret arrangement are straight up retarded and the glass quality is garbage for the money. I hate Vortex Optics but this is no shit. Yesterday I shot a Viper PST 1-6 on a RRA carbine and it had a better image and a better reticle at 1X than the NX8s I’ve used. Lots of dudes including myself use the intermediate magnification settings. I do too but who really tries to use anything but the center dot at anything but max mag? Hell the reticle is not even useable below about 4X anyway. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 11:39:40 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed. I have no problem with my FFP Nightforce NX8. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lots of dudes including myself use the intermediate magnification settings. Yup. If someone says they only use 1x or max I pretty much ignore everything else they are saying. Agreed. I have no problem with my FFP Nightforce NX8. I don’t have any trouble using it either, but the design could be a lot better. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:46:34 AM EDT
[#26]
Sub 17oz, same length NX8, 1-6, nuke bright like NX8, new DMX reticle. Come on NF make it happen and I'll buy at least one
 I'll even settle for a SFP 1-6  And capped turrets for all! |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:04:39 AM EDT
[#27]
I’d NF applied everything they learned with the NX8 to make an ultralight and compact 1-4 marketed for small/compact/short SBRs and braced pistols, they’d sell every one they made and it would be *the* SBR/pistol optic for anything above a red dot. They’d sell like gangbusters.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:35:42 AM EDT
[#28]
I love my NX8 but could see a few improvements. Eyebox is not bad but my Razor is more forgiving no doubt.
I agree that companies using what they are learning building optics like the ATACR and Razor 3 then revisit a light, fast 1-4 would be cool |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 11:32:09 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody does any of that shit with an LPVO on less than max mag. FFP LPVOs are the product of the internet. They suck. YOU may not do that with an LPVO but I certainly do. I shot my nx8 equipped rifle to 1000 yards recently. Wind blowing hard enough that I had to run the scope at 5x to have the field of view necessary to hold for the wind and see splash. In December you posted: “I like ‘em zeroed at 200 and just hold over for 300 that’s about as far as I’ve taken one.” You choosing an optic outside of your use case doesn’t make it “suck.” |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 11:54:23 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sub 17oz, same length NX8, 1-6, nuke bright like NX8, new DMX reticle. Come on NF make it happen and I'll buy at least one I'll even settle for a SFP 1-6 And capped turrets for all! I need four of them for my various 14.5 and below rifles. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:21:31 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: YOU may not do that with an LPVO but I certainly do. I shot my nx8 equipped rifle to 1000 yards recently. Wind blowing hard enough that I had to run the scope at 5x to have the field of view necessary to hold for the wind and see splash. In December you posted: “I like ‘em zeroed at 200 and just hold over for 300 that’s about as far as I’ve taken one.” You choosing an optic outside of your use case doesn’t make it “suck.” Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nobody does any of that shit with an LPVO on less than max mag. FFP LPVOs are the product of the internet. They suck. YOU may not do that with an LPVO but I certainly do. I shot my nx8 equipped rifle to 1000 yards recently. Wind blowing hard enough that I had to run the scope at 5x to have the field of view necessary to hold for the wind and see splash. In December you posted: “I like ‘em zeroed at 200 and just hold over for 300 that’s about as far as I’ve taken one.” You choosing an optic outside of your use case doesn’t make it “suck.” LOL. I don't shoot LPVOs on 5.56 carbines to 1K in the wind for the same reason I don't jack off to gay midget porn. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:27:08 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL. I don't shoot LPVOs on 5.56 carbines to 1K in the wind for the same reason I don't jack off to gay midget porn. Because you don’t know how to have fun? |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 4:03:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody does any of that shit with an LPVO on less than max mag. FFP LPVOs are the product of the internet. They suck. I’ve talked with NF about the same thing as OP and they acted like since the NX8 was the product of a government contract, it was perfect. The size, weight, and durability of it is the only thing it has going for it. The reticle and turret arrangement are straight up retarded and the glass quality is garbage for the money. I hate Vortex Optics but this is no shit. Yesterday I shot a Viper PST 1-6 on a RRA carbine and it had a better image and a better reticle at 1X than the NX8s I’ve used. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why SFP? Mostly everyone else pushes for FFP for ranging/mildots/holdovers. Nobody does any of that shit with an LPVO on less than max mag. FFP LPVOs are the product of the internet. They suck. I’ve talked with NF about the same thing as OP and they acted like since the NX8 was the product of a government contract, it was perfect. The size, weight, and durability of it is the only thing it has going for it. The reticle and turret arrangement are straight up retarded and the glass quality is garbage for the money. I hate Vortex Optics but this is no shit. Yesterday I shot a Viper PST 1-6 on a RRA carbine and it had a better image and a better reticle at 1X than the NX8s I’ve used. I use my NX8 at less than max mag (8x), a lot. Especially with a clip-on. Just because you don’t have a use for it doesn’t mean it’s a “product of the internet.” The glass is a bit quirky, especially at 8x, likely due to some optical issues that they had to accept given its size/weight/form factor/price point, but it’s not the end of the world. I certainly wouldn’t call it “garbage,” and I’ve owned or at least had time behind most of the higher end LPVOs. I will agree that they need to make the capped elevation turret model available commercially and it would be really nice to have a simplistic christmas tree type reticle in it, but I think NF fears it would cannibalize sales of the ATACR 1-8x (which is a logical fear, IMO). |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 10:11:49 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t have any trouble using it either, but the design could be a lot better. I couldn't agree more. IMHO, if the NX8 had the reticle(s) from the Vortex Razor Gen 3... HOME RUN! |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 10:18:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I use my NX8 at less than max mag (8x), a lot. Especially with a clip-on. Just because you don’t have a use for it doesn’t mean it’s a “product of the internet.” The glass is a bit quirky, especially at 8x, likely due to some optical issues that they had to accept given its size/weight/form factor/price point, but it’s not the end of the world. I certainly wouldn’t call it “garbage,” and I’ve owned or at least had time behind most of the higher end LPVOs. I will agree that they need to make the capped elevation turret model available commercially and it would be really nice to have a simplistic christmas tree type reticle in it, but I think NF fears it would cannibalize sales of the ATACR 1-8x (which is a logical fear, IMO). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why SFP? Mostly everyone else pushes for FFP for ranging/mildots/holdovers. Nobody does any of that shit with an LPVO on less than max mag. FFP LPVOs are the product of the internet. They suck. I’ve talked with NF about the same thing as OP and they acted like since the NX8 was the product of a government contract, it was perfect. The size, weight, and durability of it is the only thing it has going for it. The reticle and turret arrangement are straight up retarded and the glass quality is garbage for the money. I hate Vortex Optics but this is no shit. Yesterday I shot a Viper PST 1-6 on a RRA carbine and it had a better image and a better reticle at 1X than the NX8s I’ve used. I use my NX8 at less than max mag (8x), a lot. Especially with a clip-on. Just because you don’t have a use for it doesn’t mean it’s a “product of the internet.” The glass is a bit quirky, especially at 8x, likely due to some optical issues that they had to accept given its size/weight/form factor/price point, but it’s not the end of the world. I certainly wouldn’t call it “garbage,” and I’ve owned or at least had time behind most of the higher end LPVOs. I will agree that they need to make the capped elevation turret model available commercially and it would be really nice to have a simplistic christmas tree type reticle in it, but I think NF fears it would cannibalize sales of the ATACR 1-8x (which is a logical fear, IMO). I never said I don’t use anything but max mag. I use 1X and about 5-6X more than anything. I said who the fuck is using that fucked up reticle to ‘range’ and do all this wicked precision work at less than 8X?? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 2:23:03 AM EDT
[#36]
And while we are at it, we need to ask NF to release the Ultramounts!
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:04:16 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never said I don’t use anything but max mag. I use 1X and about 5-6X more than anything. I said who the fuck is using that fucked up reticle to ‘range’ and do all this wicked precision work at less than 8X?? I do. Calling out distance is an important part of my work. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 5:11:10 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do. Calling out distance is an important part of my work. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I never said I don’t use anything but max mag. I use 1X and about 5-6X more than anything. I said who the fuck is using that fucked up reticle to ‘range’ and do all this wicked precision work at less than 8X?? I do. Calling out distance is an important part of my work. It’s a shame that in 2021 there isn’t a quicker and more precise method of ranging than milling. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 7:21:42 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s a shame that in 2021 there isn’t a quicker and more precise method of ranging than milling. At first I did not pick up on this sarcasm. Would love a 2FP simple christmas tree reticle for use on max mag or as a RDS type affair on 1x. 2FP optics are just clearer and optically better, typically, because physics. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 7:40:29 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 4. On a shot barrel AR you are likely using 1x and the top end only. 3. It is much easier to make a nuclear bright red dot at 1x on an SFP. 2. At the top end, you can have the same simple reticle. The red dot becomes a large circle at 8x in the FFP NX8 1-8x and the FFP ATACR 1-8x. In fact, they just updated the reticle for the ATACR 1-8x because the red dot circle was too wide at 8x in their older model. 1. The eyebox on the NX8 1-8x is not good. I don’t know why you can’t put a Razor on a short Barrel gun, but I think the Razor 1-6 or Steiner 1-4 is exactly what your asking for. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 7:45:42 AM EDT
[#41]
Crazy idea, but why not fix the NF8 as it is? The eyebox is literally the only really big complaint about it. Seems like maybe that's something they could do something about in a gen2 version, even improve the reticle while they're doing it.
The first company to figure out how to get out a ~22oz, 1-8, daylight bright FFP LPVO with good eyebox and good reticle for under $1500 will be taking home all the marbles for the next five years. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 10:13:01 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s a shame that in 2021 there isn’t a quicker and more precise method of ranging than milling. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I never said I don’t use anything but max mag. I use 1X and about 5-6X more than anything. I said who the fuck is using that fucked up reticle to ‘range’ and do all this wicked precision work at less than 8X?? I do. Calling out distance is an important part of my work. It’s a shame that in 2021 there isn’t a quicker and more precise method of ranging than milling. Especially since it can be important and people actually have to do it at work. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 10:17:42 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Crazy idea, but why not fix the NF8 as it is? The eyebox is literally the only really big complaint about it. Seems like maybe that's something they could do something about in a gen2 version, even improve the reticle while they're doing it. The first company to figure out how to get out a ~22oz, 1-8, daylight bright FFP LPVO with good eyebox and good reticle for under $1500 will be taking home all the marbles for the next five years. A lot of people have found 2FP to be better than FFP on LPVOs. I shot NXS 1-4s for years before I got my NX8s and the FFP aspect of these optics was step in the wrong direction. Actually, everything about it was a step in the wrong direction except for a little better optical quality and it goes to 8. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 11:48:01 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t know why you can’t put a Razor on a short Barrel gun, but I think the Razor 1-6 or Steiner 1-4 is exactly what your asking for. As a reference, my last few optics were a couple of Leupold Mark 6 1-6 TMRs and a couple NightForce ATACR 1-8x older 2020 reticles. I sold them all because I was hoping 2021 would release some game-changing LPVO's. The only new optic that currently intrigues me is the new March D10SV24FIML 1-10x dual-plane shorty or the 2021 ATACR 1-8 with the new reticle ... if I had 16" barrel rifles I would have ordered a handful of them. I know this won't make me popular but IMO, Vortex is essentially a Chinese optic company that contracts a few of their high-end optics to Japanese manufacturers. I will not buy optics from the Chinese or any business [Vortex] that has China as their primary manufacturing location. The Razor 1-6 is also 21.5 oz. The Steiner 1-4 is 22.2 oz and 11.4". I would rather have the FFP ATACR 1-8 with the new 2021 reticle than those two. But, I get that those are the two better/cheaper 2FP options available. I want to buy from a company that has nothing to do with our enemy [China]. I want something that is durable and has a warranty to back it up. But I also want the dimensions to be like the NX8 1-8 [17 oz and 8.75"] As many have alluded, the eyebox [some think it's acceptable] could likely be improved if the optic was SFP and had a lower high-end magnification. IMO, I think it would be nice if NF or Leupold [I won't hold my breath] made a new tactical 2FP 1-4/6. They can either update their old NXS 1-4 or their new NX8 1-8 body, but I would be very interested to see what they could come up with. Even SOCOM wanted and received a new 2FP "Squad-Variable Power Scope to be used on M4 carbines out to 600m". I personally think people would be interested in a duty SBR SFP LPVO ... I want four of them. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 11:55:00 AM EDT
[#45]
I would also really like to see that.
With the advancements made in 1-8’s, you would think it could be translated to a very small and light 1-4. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 11:56:14 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish you the best of luck with Nightforce, but I have to ask what is the need for another $1500. SFP 1-4, or 6, or 8 or 10 will bring to the table, that is not currently filled by: the Vortex PST and Razor 1-6 flavors, the Steiner SFP 1-4, the Sig Sauer SFP versions of the Tango 6, Swampfox Arrowhead SFP 1-6, 1-8, 1-10, Athlon Cronus, Midas, Helos, Argos, LPVO's, PA's various SFP iterations, just to name as few. From low to high priced there are a plethora of SFP LVPO's to satisfy just about everybody except Nightforce users I guess. I get it, they are not Nightforce scopes.....But still how are they going to sell?? All of the Chinese optics you mentioned are not, to my knowledge, daylight bright. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 12:17:33 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why SFP? Mostly everyone else pushes for FFP for ranging/mildots/holdovers. Because it’s worthless on a 1-4. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 12:34:44 PM EDT
[#48]
Just got the New March 1-10x Shorty.
This thing sweet. This addresses my biggest issue with LPVO FFP’s which was reliance on illumination at 1x. Sure you can manage to make them work at 1x without illumination, but I would want to bet my life them if the battery craps out. March managed to get German #4 + bright red dot in SFP which then lays under FFP mil hashes, which is nuts. 8” length and 17oz!!! This system solves what bothered me with nightforce and vortex FFPs at 1x. I played around with it on pistol setup and it’s really darn good. Very good eye box and eye relief. I run NV and the March rings have an integrated pic rail to piggy an RMR without having to hang a bunch of extra gear off my rig. The height is spot for NV. It really solves most if not all my gripes with FFP LPVO’s. Costly but clearly worth IMHO. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 12:41:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just got the New March 1-10x Shorty. This thing sweet. This addresses my biggest issue with LPVO FFP’s which was reliance on illumination at 1x. Sure you can manage to make them work at 1x without illumination, but I would want to bet my life them if the battery craps out. March managed to get German #4 + bright red dot in SFP which then lays under FFP mil hashes, which is nuts. 8” length and 17oz!!! This system solves what bothered me with nightforce and vortex FFPs at 1x. I played around with it on pistol setup and it’s really darn good. Very good eye box and eye relief. I run NV and the March rings have an integrated pic rail to piggy an RMR without having to hang a bunch of extra gear off my rig. The height is spot for NV. It really solves most if not all my gripes with FFP LPVO’s. Costly but clearly worth IMHO. What are your thoughts on long-term durability? Does it feel like it could take a beating? I don't think we will see too many torture test videos on that optic. What is your experience with service and warranty through March? What is the exact warranty on that optic and were do you have to send it to get it serviced? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 12:41:39 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just got the New March 1-10x Shorty. Does it have adjustable parallax? The specs were a lil unclear. |
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