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Posted: 1/13/2021 4:00:02 PM EST
Hello y'all. I'm still trying to decide which optic to go with on my general purpose carbine. I'm split between a Vortex Gen III 1-10 MRAD vs the Kahles K16i with the 3gr reticle. Whichever one I get will be mounted on a 1.93 mount and there will be an offset red dot on it.

Rifle that it's going on is a hodge 14.5 barrel p/w with surefire warcomp, and spine lock rail with an lmt e-bolt, so durability and longevity of the optic is a requirement. Not really interested in the atacr as the opacity of the reticle doesn't do it for me.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 4:56:31 PM EST
Those are two very, very different scopes/reticles.

If you're planning on more long range stuff, razor. Closer in, Khales
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:01:48 PM EST
I would get the Razor.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:04:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hoody2shoez:
Those are two very, very different scopes/reticles.

If you're planning on more long range stuff, razor. Closer in, Khales
View Quote
I'm just having a hard time deciding if a 1-10x razor would be excessive for the gun I'm putting it on. Cost wise they're about the same, but would it be better for a lighter weight lpvo, or a more versatile optic for more weight?

Max distance I would use this rifle for is about 400-500 yards
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:16:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By azindude:
I'm just having a hard time deciding if a 1-10x razor would be excessive for the gun I'm putting it on. Cost wise they're about the same, but would it be better for a lighter weight lpvo, or a more versatile optic for more weight?

Max distance I would use this rifle for is about 400-500 yards
View Quote


I'm the opposite of you-i went with a nightforce-i prefer the reticle much much more for close engagements than the razor 1-10. Longer ranges im using the stadia lines so the transparency of the razor reticle has no practical carry over. You'll have to decide if you want something better for closer (khales) or more geared toward longer (razor)

If you spend most your time running cqb drills I'd personally take the Khales for the reticle.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:21:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By azindude:
lighter weight lpvo or a more versatile optic for more weight?

Max distance I would use this rifle for is about 400-500 yards
View Quote


I'd go Kahles if you want a lighter weight and 4-500 yards will be the max range.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:33:35 PM EST
The K16i is hard to beat on 1x and the glass is awesome.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:45:47 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hoody2shoez:


I'm the opposite of you-i went with a nightforce-i prefer the reticle much much more for close engagements than the razor 1-10. Longer ranges im using the stadia lines so the transparency of the razor reticle has no practical carry over. You'll have to decide if you want something better for closer (khales) or more geared toward longer (razor)

If you spend most your time running cqb drills I'd personally take the Khales for the reticle.
View Quote
This rifle probably won't be spending as much time doing cqb drills, I've got a sr15 cqb for that.

I'm more worried about capabilities with being able to PID at 300yards at a minimum, maybe more. But I also don't want to unnecessarily add weight for more magnification.


Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:46:15 PM EST
10X will get you to 500.  Here is a KYL setup at 545 yards looking through a 10X Leupold mildot

Attachment Attached File


Targets are 8, 6, 5, 4, and 3"



Link Posted: 1/13/2021 6:19:32 PM EST
If you do not need illumination I would check out the discontinued Nikon scopes still on the market. I just purchased two of the Nikon M-Tactical 1-4x24 Matte Mk1-MOA LVPO. Really nice but basic for the price.

Eurooptic.com Nikon M-TACTICAL 1-4x24 Matte Mk1-MOA
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 7:17:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 7:18:15 PM EST by azindude]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hydra-shokz:
The K16i is hard to beat on 1x and the glass is awesome.
View Quote
Is there any merit to the claims about worse chromatic aberration on the k16i vs other lpvos in its price range.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 7:28:32 AM EST
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Originally Posted By azindude:
Is there any merit to the claims about worse chromatic aberration on the k16i vs other lpvos in its price range.
View Quote



It had the worst CA I've seen other than the NXS 1-4's. That said, none of that would prevent me from hitting what I was aiming at. I wouldn't worry about CA being "a real issue", more of a cosmetic one that you can nitpick over, on the K16i.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 7:45:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By azindude:
durability and longevity of the optic is a requirement.
View Quote


Trijicon 1-8 VCOG
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 8:15:09 AM EST
Vortex Razors are tanks, don't forget to take that weight into account. If I was in your shoes I would be very tempted to go with the NF 1-8 since you are going to be using an offset dot anyway. It will benefit from the extra 2X magnification vs the Khales and it will be 4 oz lighter than the Razor 1-10 and more compact.

Razor 1-10 would probably be my pick if I was looking for a single optic to do everything in that price range though.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 9:14:58 AM EST
NX8
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 9:54:50 AM EST
I have an ATACR 1-8x on a 14.5" gun, and like it.  The FC-DM doesn't hold it back at all.  

Between your two options, though, the K16i would be my choice.  I prefer the short-range advantages it would offer over the mid-long range of the 1-10x.  


Link Posted: 1/14/2021 10:22:42 AM EST
If you're already going to offset a dot then get the better long-range scope -- Razor 1-10x.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 11:03:51 AM EST
If going with an offset, why not go for a 2-10 which will be immensely better at 10x than a 24 or 30mm objective LPVO?
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 1:07:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2021 1:08:01 PM EST by phlegm]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By phlegm:
I have an ATACR 1-8x on a 14.5" gun, and like it.  The FC-DM doesn't hold it back at all.  

Between your two options, though, the K16i would be my choice.  I prefer the short-range advantages it would offer over the mid-long range of the 1-10x.  


View Quote
Looks like the ATACR could be back in the game, if you like the new reticle that just came out:

https://www.nightforceoptics.com/technology/reticles/fc-dmx


Link Posted: 1/14/2021 1:33:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
If going with an offset, why not go for a 2-10 which will be immensely better at 10x than a 24 or 30mm objective LPVO?
View Quote
Tbh I thought about it, but for the times when i have to be posted up behind cover on my weak hand, I would prefer to have a 1x capability. Also when shooting with the offset, I don't like how my elbow is exposed more when slowly pieing a corner., and would like the option of not having to cant the weapon while working an angle.

the offset is mostly for a quick transition if I have any mag dialed on the lpvo, work under nods passively, or if I need to dig a corner and bring my rifle up. Offset optic is gonna be a T2.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 1:44:40 PM EST
I’d get the Kahles but with the SM1 reticule.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 1:56:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AKSU:
I'd get the Kahles but with the SM1 reticule.
View Quote
The stadia are too short for me and I know I'll get lost in the reticle for longer range shooting while trying to count mils. Sl1 reticle is a bit better, but I need some sort of wind holds as well as differentiation in the vertical subtensions.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 2:22:25 PM EST
The ATACR just got a new reticle...
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 2:35:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By azindude:
I'm just having a hard time deciding if a 1-10x razor would be excessive for the gun I'm putting it on. Cost wise they're about the same, but would it be better for a lighter weight lpvo, or a more versatile optic for more weight?

Max distance I would use this rifle for is about 400-500 yards
View Quote


My vote is Kahles for this purpose.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 2:36:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2021 2:37:48 PM EST by bates]
so I've got a similar build already set up

Mine is a Kac 16inch cut down to 14.5 with pinned surefire

I bought a kahles for it a long time ago, k1-6 with the discontinued SM2 reticle

In general I prefer a mil based reticle and don't get lost with it.  Just have to take the time to memorize the reticle and practice with it.  Used to run a vortex 1-6 w/ the jm-1 bdc

mine is in a 1.70 mount with an offset ACRO and i am super happy with it

it was in a 1.93 and i prefer the 1.70 mount height

I looked at the new 1-10 Vortex and overall for my uses this primarily set up for up close to a few hundred yards out, so the lighter weight and great kahles glass keeps it on my rifle

But if I can ever source a hodge lower, upper, rail and other accessories to finish my 12.5 build then more than likely the K1-6 setup will go on that gun and i would put a 1-10 on the 14.5 as i would be in the market for a new optic

but over for what you are saying i would go k1-6



Link Posted: 1/14/2021 2:47:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2021 3:04:15 PM EST by azindude]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hoody2shoez:
The ATACR just got a new reticle...
View Quote
I'd really like to keep this setup under 6k without a mawl if I can help it. I'm already at $2776 on this rifle and all I'm missing for the setup is a ds00 tailcap, a sionics/fcd np3 carrier and the optic.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 8:20:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By phlegm:
Looks like the ATACR could be back in the game, if you like the new reticle that just came out:

https://www.nightforceoptics.com/technology/reticles/fc-dmx

https://www.nightforceoptics.com/fileadmin/_processed_/a/b/csm_NF_FC-DMx_449422b3b8.png
View Quote


If Nightforce put this reticle in the NX8...

Grand Slam Home Run baby!!
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 11:24:31 AM EST
Either scope will take you to the effective range of a 14.5" barrel and beyond.
Select the reticle you like and go with that.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 12:47:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sniper3142:


If Nightforce put this reticle in the NX8...

Grand Slam Home Run baby!!
View Quote


Pass on the tight eyebox in the NX8. I’ll still take the Kahles.
Link Posted: 1/17/2021 8:30:28 PM EST
I'm waiting for reviews on the March 1-10 Shorty.  Same size and weight of NX8 but adjustable parallax, 1-10, and dual focal plane reticle.
Link Posted: 1/27/2021 7:30:01 PM EST
I just thought of this, but would any of y'all change your answer if the upper was going to be shot with a socom rc2 95% of the time. Makes me think the carbine would handle more like a mini-recce even with just a hand stop, Modlite and mawl on the handguard.
Link Posted: 1/29/2021 9:17:24 AM EST
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Originally Posted By azindude:
I just thought of this, but would any of y'all change your answer if the upper was going to be shot with a socom rc2 95% of the time. Makes me think the carbine would handle more like a mini-recce even with just a hand stop, Modlite and mawl on the handguard.
View Quote


I think it just means your rifle is gonna be heavy regardless. So you can either say ok fuck it it'll just be heavy or you can try to save weight with the optic. NX8 would be small and light but picky about head position -- K16i is same weight but larger, but easier to use. Any Vortex option will be big and heavy. It's hard to tell you your preference lol.
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