When Were A2 Handguards Designed / Developed? - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - When Were A2 Handguards Designed / Developed?

Posted: 2/20/2023 4:20:20 PM EDT

When Were A2 Handguards Designed / Developed? I know that the M16A2 wasn't adopted until 1982 or thereabouts, but I was looking at an old "Guns" magazine online edition (July 1968) and on page 31, there is a photo of an AR-15 / M-16 with A2-type handguards, so 14 years earlier.

https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/G0768.pdf

Posted: 2/20/2023 4:42:39 PM EDT

[#1]

@coldblue

I always assumed they came out with the M16A2 in the early 80s, but I guess that's not the case.

Posted: 2/20/2023 5:09:35 PM EDT

[#2]

Thread about Lonestar/A2 which came first, suggests Colt round handguards came about in early 1960s.
1967 Popular Mechanics article posted to The Colt AR15 resource. This may be the same as the article mentioned in that thread.
Picture is snipped from the above

Attached File

Posted: 2/20/2023 5:12:55 PM EDT

[#3]

The guy who designed the a2 pistol grip is a member here so I'm sure he can help answer your questions
Don't remember his name though...

Posted: 2/20/2023 5:57:41 PM EDT

[#4]

I know that the basic design of a round A2 type handguard was around before I joined the program in 1980. But as I recall, it was not that practical in its earliest forms because the upper and lower were not interchangeable, at least with a triangle shape A1 handguard cap. A Colt engineer, Mr. Harold Waterman designed a way for them to be so interchangeable, so we made that one of the improvements along with upgrading the base material.

Posted: 2/20/2023 7:15:54 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
The guy who designed the a2 pistol grip is a member here so I'm sure he can help answer your questions
Don't remember his name though...

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That'd be the guy posting below you.

Posted: 2/20/2023 10:01:10 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
I know that the basic design of a round A2 type handguard was around before I joined the program in 1980. But as I recall, it was not that practical in its earliest forms because the upper and lower were not interchangeable, at least with a triangle shape A1 handguard cap. A Colt engineer, Mr. Harold Waterman designed a way for them to be so interchangeable, so we made that one of the improvements along with upgrading the base material.

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I just went and looked again at the old picture at the link and you're right. I'm seeing a round handguard cap and not the triangle.

Posted: 2/20/2023 10:30:31 PM EDT

[#7]

I've read that Colt offered the round handguards that needed a round cap at about the same time as they introduced the XM177 series.

The Army declined because they wanted backwards compatibility with existing rifles.

The handguard that the A2 uses comes from Colt making it work with the triangle cap.

It's another case of the Army not wanting to reopen the milspec until the horse is dead and VERY beaten.

Posted: 2/21/2023 1:52:53 AM EDT

[#8]

Yup the fact round handguards were available for thr XM177 make me think the Big Army was not interested in them for the M16… up until the introduction of the A2.

Just like the piston version of the M16, Colt designed some cool stuff way before the market/customers even wanted them

Posted: 2/22/2023 5:54:41 PM EDT

[#9]

Were the "fat" handguards that are available today ever tested by the military or is that strictly a commercial design? I think PSA includes these on their "Retro" A4 clones.

Posted: 4/19/2023 1:15:19 PM EDT

[#10]

pretty sure THE BLACK RIFLE had info that Colt made them several years prior to the A2 program

maybe even Vietnam era

i’ll try and remember to check when I get home

Posted: 4/20/2023 12:32:01 AM EDT

[#11]

Vickers AR15 volume 1 has one photo of an very A2ish style handguard and and 1 photo of it on an experimental Model 603 that says circa 1960s. Page 450.

Says 14 vent holes instead of 15, and since it didn’t use the same front retention cap as the triangle that is the most likely reason for not being adopted.

Posted: 4/20/2023 11:57:49 AM EDT

[#12]

The "A2" style handguard was actually a Colt in-house project in the late 1960's. It is covered in The Black Rifle or The Black Rifle 2, can't remember which one.

The military decided to pass on it at the time, but when the A2 program was in process they were added in as the left A1 handguards had a tendency to break more often than the right side ones from the forward assist of a rifle to the left smacking into the rifle to the right of it in an M12 weapon storage rack.

Sven
Manticore Arms

Posted: 4/20/2023 9:15:19 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

The military decided to pass on it at the time, but when the A2 program was in process they were added in as the left A1 handguards had a tendency to break more often than the right side ones from the forward assist of a rifle to the left smacking into the rifle to the right of it in an M12 weapon storage rack.

Sven
Manticore Arms

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I've heard a few different versions of what caused the left side to fail more frequently, everything from grounding the weapons with ejection port up to increased exposure to dirt/grime/oils from right handed shooters hands having more contact with the left side, and right handed shooters bracing the left side against various pieces of cover/concealment when shooting from those positions which caused excessive wear to that side. I'll have to add the FA in the weapon rack to the list!

Posted: 4/22/2023 5:14:59 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:

I've heard a few different versions of what caused the left side to fail more frequently, everything from grounding the weapons with ejection port up to increased exposure to dirt/grime/oils from right handed shooters hands having more contact with the left side, and right handed shooters bracing the left side against various pieces of cover/concealment when shooting from those positions which caused excessive wear to that side. I'll have to add the FA in the weapon rack to the list!

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

The military decided to pass on it at the time, but when the A2 program was in process they were added in as the left A1 handguards had a tendency to break more often than the right side ones from the forward assist of a rifle to the left smacking into the rifle to the right of it in an M12 weapon storage rack.

Sven
Manticore Arms

I've heard a few different versions of what caused the left side to fail more frequently, everything from grounding the weapons with ejection port up to increased exposure to dirt/grime/oils from right handed shooters hands having more contact with the left side, and right handed shooters bracing the left side against various pieces of cover/concealment when shooting from those positions which caused excessive wear to that side. I'll have to add the FA in the weapon rack to the list!

I am sure there are a large number of reasons and that the weapons rack was only one part of it!

Posted: 4/24/2023 9:11:30 PM EDT

[#15]

I heard that it was the natural evolution of the Handguard design. The XM 177 and other carbines had round hand guards in the 60s and were used in Vietnam. That basic design was lengthened for the M16A2. So in a sense you could say it was designed back in the 60s.

Posted: 4/24/2023 9:24:50 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
I heard that it was the natural evolution of the Handguard design. The XM 177 and other carbines had round hand guards in the 60s and were used in Vietnam. That basic design was lengthened for the M16A2. So in a sense you could say it was designed back in the 60s.

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Oh no, it was full rifle length round hand guards back in the 60s.

Posted: 4/27/2023 4:57:43 AM EDT

[#17]

@coldblue

Would you kindly enlighten us, Sir?

Posted: 4/27/2023 7:34:54 AM EDT

[#18]

Attached File

Posted: 4/27/2023 8:03:27 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I know that the basic design of a round A2 type handguard was around before I joined the program in 1980. But as I recall, it was not that practical in its earliest forms because the upper and lower were not interchangeable, at least with a triangle shape A1 handguard cap. A Colt engineer, Mr. Harold Waterman designed a way for them to be so interchangeable, so we made that one of the improvements along with upgrading the base material.

Posted: 4/27/2023 1:46:57 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Quoted:
I know that the basic design of a round A2 type handguard was around before I joined the program in 1980. But as I recall, it was not that practical in its earliest forms because the upper and lower were not interchangeable, at least with a triangle shape A1 handguard cap. A Colt engineer, Mr. Harold Waterman designed a way for them to be so interchangeable, so we made that one of the improvements along with upgrading the base material.

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@coldblue

Since you're here, were the original A2 handguards shiny , dull finish, or could both be possible from the first production guns?

Posted: 4/28/2023 8:03:56 AM EDT

[#21]

They were not shinny. More of a matte black.

Posted: 4/28/2023 11:54:26 AM EDT

[#22]

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Quoted:
They were not shinny. More of a matte black.

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Thanks for answering. For years, there's been a debate on whether the shiny handguards came on factory rifles, or were they replacement handguards.
I have a set of shiny ones, that were new in bags over two decades ago. (obviously replacements) I wish I had paid more attention to issued rifles I saw in 1991.