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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2021 10:18:32 PM EST
Given the current ammo situation, it can be difficult to find or procure quality duty/self-defense rounds to stock up on. For defensive encounters within 50 meters out of barrels as short as 11.5", do M193 clones in 5.56 pressure perform adequately? There seems to be lots of conflicting information out there on this topic. Dr Roberts and Fackler seem to heavily question the consistency of the performance of M193, yet gel tests such as those conducted by Andrew at the Chopping Block seem do indicate reasonable and occasionally impressive performance with certain M193 clones.
Is there any new information that I am unaware of? Thanks |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2021 10:58:34 PM EST
M193 killed many in AFG when I was there. Right now, hard to be picky. I’d buy whatever available.
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Posted: 1/9/2021 2:06:00 AM EST
It’s perfectly serviceable
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Posted: 1/9/2021 2:16:15 AM EST
 Attached FileIt will kill. I don't have any data for you but I have some insight. Personally it gives me warm feeling to have such familiarity the reliability and repeatability of M193 ammo. I'm my case, usually Federal/American Eagle XM193. I'm certain a more effective bullet exists for terminal performance but dang it nowhere near the cost and nowhere near the comfort of the repeat performance I've had with M193. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2021 2:39:04 AM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By rich1967: M193 killed many in AFG when I was there. Right now, hard to be picky. I’d buy whatever available. I think you mean M855. |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 2:50:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/9/2021 2:51:20 AM EST by _DR]
Dead or alive nobody is going to continue fighting after a solid hit from M193, M855 or MK 262 Mod 1.
End of story. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2021 8:50:16 AM EST
It works as goood today as when it was invented.
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Posted: 1/9/2021 9:01:44 AM EST
It will probably work fine, velocity helps increase that likelihood. It doesn’t work as well as purpose built projectiles. Run it if it’s what you’ve got and don’t lose sleep over it, but don’t choose it over those purpose built offerings. Generally those recommendations are TMK for non-barrier bound or GD/Fusion for barrier blind. There are a litany of other options like Barnes etc that will perform great as well, and honestly they’re all going to have a similar end result so try not to chase this rabbit hole too much. A short range center-mass rifle hit is going to more or less work regardless.
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ITA
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Posted: 1/9/2021 10:03:06 AM EST
Don’t over think it.
It will work just fine.. shot placement is more important. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2021 10:36:41 AM EST
Pretty sure it has been used in combat with more than acceptable results.
Biggest key would be knowing your effective range based on your barrel length. Full frag above 2700fps. Almost no frag below 2500 fps. |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 11:32:09 AM EST
To ensure max effectiveness within 100yds and beyond, a 16in barrel (or longer) is recommended. At its intended impact velocity the results are impressive for a FMJ projectile.
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Posted: 1/9/2021 12:24:56 PM EST
No real new information that I am aware of.
Just remember, not all 55gr FMJ is M193 bullets.. so some FMJ may not fragment worth a hoot. And M193 / M855 has always been Yaw dependent... so Roberts and Fackler will recommend a non-yaw dependent bullet for a more consistent result. How much better % wise is a better design ? I don't know. Something often overlooked from ballistic gel testing ( gel is a great comparision tool ) is bone damage. A M193 bullet hitting a bone is gonna jack it up.... ribs , back bone, shoulder...etc |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 1:54:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/9/2021 1:56:44 PM EST by swampvol]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06: Something often overlooked from ballistic gel testing ( gel is a great comparision tool ) is bone damage. A M193 bullet hitting a bone is gonna jack it up.... ribs , back bone, shoulder...etc This is 100% correct. This is when energy comes into play. |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 3:16:05 PM EST
Velocity is a 'thing'. OP, for what you're talking about, nothing has changed. I'd use XM193 in a minute and even out of my 11.5" at repel-boarders distances. It has historically punched holes just fine and as Bfoosh mentions, man does it ever create some shrapnel if it encounters bone. Fugly. The quality stuff loaded to 5.56 pressures is good to go.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 1/10/2021 10:19:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By Razorcore:What is the current consensus on the terminal effectiveness of M193? Same as it was back in 1965. |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 10:36:04 AM EST
Don't forget that twist rate is a factor, some of my older weapons are 1:12 so it is only M193 in them.
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Posted: 1/10/2021 10:43:14 AM EST
It will KEAL
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Posted: 1/11/2021 8:42:52 AM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By motoguzzi: Don't forget that twist rate is a factor, some of my older weapons are 1:12 so it is only M193 in them. Why? I shoot quite a bit of 55 and even up to 62gr gold dots and other pills with increased terminal performance through my 1:12. As has been beaten to death in this forum, M193 is fantastic WHEN IT WORKS. Sometimes it doesn't, even at across the room distances. That's why Doc et. al. don't recommend it. If you're late to the party, and it's all you can get, you're in good shape. If you're loaded with a modern barrier blind expanding projectile, you're in great shape. |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 9:45:26 AM EST
It works great. Especially at 2600fps and faster. Its what I will used once all my Fusion/MSR/Gold Dots are gone.
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MS, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2021 12:37:57 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By lysanderxiii: Same as it was back in 1965. Yep |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2021 6:32:19 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By Eat_Beef: Why? I shoot quite a bit of 55 and even up to 62gr gold dots and other pills with increased terminal performance through my 1:12. As has been beaten to death in this forum, M193 is fantastic WHEN IT WORKS. Sometimes it doesn't, even at across the room distances. That's why Doc et. al. don't recommend it. If you're late to the party, and it's all you can get, you're in good shape. If you're loaded with a modern barrier blind expanding projectile, you're in great shape. This x1000 |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2021 6:33:20 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By motoguzzi: Don't forget that twist rate is a factor, some of my older weapons are 1:12 so it is only M193 in them. If yours is a 1/12 look into the 55gr Gold Dot or the 55gr LE223T1. Bone frog has both or at least the T1 last I checked. |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 6:54:53 PM EST
It has a better reputation for putting down bad guys than green tip. When M193 works it works well. The issue is that sometimes it has a long neck. If you get the combo of a long neck and an unobstructed hit on a thin target you might not get the violent fragmentation that makes the round so effective.
it does benefit from speed. I personally wouldn't go under 11.5 inches with it if I had a choice. If I was under 16inches I would feel ok with short ranges. |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 6:27:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/12/2021 6:43:41 AM EST by wesr228]
At this point, it's run whatcha brung for SD.
M193 is fine. Doc and Fackler point to other options, but those options aren't available to a lot of us right now. And their main preference is for rounds that have greater consistency, either with or without barriers. It's not that M193 is bad, it's that their are better options (when available). Remember, even a .22 is better then sharp sticks. |
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