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Posted: 12/2/2018 11:27:11 AM EDT
[#1]
The rear of the extended brace is the rear measurement point when calculating OAL, according to the ATF. If your brace folds then it is measured folded and you will not reach 26'' no matter the barrel length. LOP can not exceed 13.5'' on an arm brace. Unless your using an 8.5'' or less barrel you should be able to reach 26''.
According to the ATF a front vertical grip is distinguished by being a perpendicular 90 degree angle to the barrel. Using an angled grip is OK no matter the OAL. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 12:17:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless your using an 8.5'' or less barrel you should be able to reach 26''. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 12:38:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A military buffer tube installed is around 7". I could be completely wrong here but I do not think a 9" barrel will get the OAL 26". |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 12:47:15 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... If your brace folds then it is measured folded and you will not reach 26'' no matter the barrel length.... 
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Posted: 12/2/2018 1:00:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ATF has stated that if you have an adjustable "length-of-pull" brace like the SBA3, then you measure the pistol's OAL from the rear of the brace, with the brace fully extended, to the muzzle. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 1:39:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hard to imagine how a 20" barrel would not result in a OAL greater than 26". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
... If your brace folds then it is measured folded and you will not reach 26'' no matter the barrel length....  . Not many 20'' barreled pistols running around but facts are facts.
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Posted: 12/2/2018 3:07:28 PM EDT
[#7]
It takes at least a 11.5" barrel if using a carbine or standard length buffer tube without any brace to get over 26" overall. I used a Kak Super Sig extended buffer tube with my 10.5" barrel to get to 26.5" overall length.
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Posted: 12/3/2018 5:16:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ATF has stated that if you have an adjustable "length-of-pull" brace like the SBA3, then you measure the pistol's OAL from the rear of the brace, with the brace fully extended, to the muzzle. |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 2:28:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ATF has stated that if you have an adjustable "length-of-pull" brace like the SBA3, then you measure the pistol's OAL from the rear of the brace, with the brace fully extended, to the muzzle. These are the people who suddenly decided one particular shotgun was a DD, and a shoestring a MG after all... * realistically not going to happen, but always the possibility. In some ways I wish it would some of this stuff needs to go to court to get finalized one way or the other. |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 3:01:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It takes at least a 11.5" barrel if using a carbine or standard length buffer tube without any brace to get over 26" overall. I used a Kak Super Sig extended buffer tube with my 10.5" barrel to get to 26.5" overall length. I have a 10.3" with a very old "Sig Brace" on a standard pistol buffer tube I slip fit on is shoved clear to the receiver and my OAL is around 28" without muzzle device. |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 4:22:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Until they change their minds and decide fully collapsed is the way it's measured then you have people suddenly in possession of *unregistered AOWs. These are the people who suddenly decided one particular shotgun was a DD, and a shoestring a MG after all... * realistically not going to happen, but always the possibility. In some ways I wish it would some of this stuff needs to go to court to get finalized one way or the other. Don't know what state OP is in. |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 5:07:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry i'm and mot sure that's correct. I have a 10.3" with a very old "Sig Brace" on a standard pistol buffer tube I slip fit on is shoved clear to the receiver and my OAL is around 28" without muzzle device. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It takes at least a 11.5" barrel if using a carbine or standard length buffer tube without any brace to get over 26" overall. I used a Kak Super Sig extended buffer tube with my 10.5" barrel to get to 26.5" overall length. I have a 10.3" with a very old "Sig Brace" on a standard pistol buffer tube I slip fit on is shoved clear to the receiver and my OAL is around 28" without muzzle device. 
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Posted: 12/10/2018 5:29:04 PM EDT
[#13]
A 10" ish barrel will get you there. 8" ish barrel would be too short unless you pin the muzzle device.
ETA - with an SBA3 |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 12:15:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry i'm and mot sure that's correct. I have a 10.3" with a very old "Sig Brace" on a standard pistol buffer tube I slip fit on is shoved clear to the receiver and my OAL is around 28" without muzzle device. Edit: trouble. I just measured from my trigger to fully extended blade with kak supertube. Over 13.5 inches. This 13.5 bs came out after I built this thing. So sick of this. Tax stamp might be coming. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 5:01:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry i'm and mot sure that's correct. I have a 10.3" with a very old "Sig Brace" on a standard pistol buffer tube I slip fit on is shoved clear to the receiver and my OAL is around 28" without muzzle device. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 5:14:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is right. The kak supertube is the key. I’ve got the same setup. Edit: trouble. I just measured from my trigger to fully extended blade with kak supertube. Over 13.5 inches. This 13.5 bs came out after I built this thing. So sick of this. Tax stamp might be coming. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Sorry i'm and mot sure that's correct. I have a 10.3" with a very old "Sig Brace" on a standard pistol buffer tube I slip fit on is shoved clear to the receiver and my OAL is around 28" without muzzle device. Edit: trouble. I just measured from my trigger to fully extended blade with kak supertube. Over 13.5 inches. This 13.5 bs came out after I built this thing. So sick of this. Tax stamp might be coming. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:42:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have all that too and my LOP is under 13.5" no matter how I measure it. I think we have a different definition of extended. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Sorry i'm and mot sure that's correct. I have a 10.3" with a very old "Sig Brace" on a standard pistol buffer tube I slip fit on is shoved clear to the receiver and my OAL is around 28" without muzzle device. Edit: trouble. I just measured from my trigger to fully extended blade with kak supertube. Over 13.5 inches. This 13.5 bs came out after I built this thing. So sick of this. Tax stamp might be coming. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:33:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have a KAK "Super Sig" tube or the standard KAK dimpled tube? The SS tube is longer and lacks dimples. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Sorry i'm and mot sure that's correct. I have a 10.3" with a very old "Sig Brace" on a standard pistol buffer tube I slip fit on is shoved clear to the receiver and my OAL is around 28" without muzzle device. Edit: trouble. I just measured from my trigger to fully extended blade with kak supertube. Over 13.5 inches. This 13.5 bs came out after I built this thing. So sick of this. Tax stamp might be coming. My Sig SBX brace has another 1/2 inch to go before it has bottomed out on the tube. Not sure what would be considered extended with this brace. MI Extended Buffer Tube  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 12:58:56 AM EDT
[#19]
This is an interesting thread. I made an LMT CQBR using an factory built 10.5" upper and a lower I assembled with an SBA3. I was under the impression it was measured with the brace collapsed. If it is truly measured with it extended then I need to but a KAC broomhandle :)
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Posted: 12/16/2018 10:26:18 AM EDT
[#20]
Adding another "well I read the laws this way" - RE: OAL
If any muzzle device is removable, remove it. If any pistol brace can come off whatever tube it is on, remove it. Now measure from muzzle thread to end of tube. That is the shortest the firearm can be, and still operate. If you have a Law Tactical adapter et al. - fold it and measure to end of section attached to receiver. The firearm can fire one round with the Law Tactical folded. The fully extended Brace "thing", has to do with the *verbal* discussion that KAK had with ATF in regards to LOP - don't exceed 13.5" Edit: Annnnnd I may be being influenced by my state law: "The stock extended is a departure from how some states require individuals to measure the overall length of the firearm. That said, we are discussing federal law, but be aware of the difference if you happen to reside in one of those states" So the Feds measure with the SBA3's et al. on the tube, extended? Cool. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 1:59:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Here is a link about how the ATF measures certain braces on AR pistols. Look at how they measure the Sig MPX with brace.
CT ATF Raid |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 1:42:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Until they change their minds and decide fully collapsed is the way it's measured then you have people suddenly in possession of *unregistered AOWs. These are the people who suddenly decided one particular shotgun was a DD, and a shoestring a MG after all... * realistically not going to happen, but always the possibility. In some ways I wish it would some of this stuff needs to go to court to get finalized one way or the other. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The ATF has stated that if you have an adjustable "length-of-pull" brace like the SBA3, then you measure the pistol's OAL from the rear of the brace, with the brace fully extended, to the muzzle. These are the people who suddenly decided one particular shotgun was a DD, and a shoestring a MG after all... * realistically not going to happen, but always the possibility. In some ways I wish it would some of this stuff needs to go to court to get finalized one way or the other. |
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Posted: 12/18/2018 3:32:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: #whogivesashitabouttheatf Just like vaccines. They are wonderful technology until your kid is in the small percentage of kids who get brain damage and other life long problems. And when you try to complain to the dr they say read the info packet they handed you before they gave you the very first shot that told you of all of the possible huge dangers that aren’t likely to occur but could. *dont mean to turn this into a vaccine thread at all, just the first thing that came to mind after working in the medical field for years. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 5:57:57 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No one. Until it’s you in cuffs. Just like vaccines. They are wonderful technology until your kid is in the small percentage of kids who get brain damage and other life long problems. And when you try to complain to the dr they say read the info packet they handed you before they gave you the very first shot that told you of all of the possible huge dangers that aren’t likely to occur but could. *dont mean to turn this into a vaccine thread at all, just the first thing that came to mind after working in the medical field for years. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: #whogivesashitabouttheatf Just like vaccines. They are wonderful technology until your kid is in the small percentage of kids who get brain damage and other life long problems. And when you try to complain to the dr they say read the info packet they handed you before they gave you the very first shot that told you of all of the possible huge dangers that aren’t likely to occur but could. *dont mean to turn this into a vaccine thread at all, just the first thing that came to mind after working in the medical field for years. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 7:10:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can somebody show me again all the people convicted for NFA violations? And, please do not include the ones who were already in the act of committing a felony. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: #whogivesashitabouttheatf Just like vaccines. They are wonderful technology until your kid is in the small percentage of kids who get brain damage and other life long problems. And when you try to complain to the dr they say read the info packet they handed you before they gave you the very first shot that told you of all of the possible huge dangers that aren’t likely to occur but could. *dont mean to turn this into a vaccine thread at all, just the first thing that came to mind after working in the medical field for years. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 2:17:33 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can somebody show me again all the people convicted for NFA violations? And, please do not include the ones who were already in the act of committing a felony. Both of which can come at the hands of many different authorities. I’m not a fan of Russian roulette type games. We JUST saw the ATF try to convict for this. They even tried to get their own approval letter blocked. Not trying to be a jerk but some of you are taking this way to lightly. And just wait until there is a grabber president. SCOTUS is our only chance at this point. Hopefully that scumbag whatever her name is dies and we get a pro 2 guy and we can call it a day. Until then I have to protect myself and family from a tyrannical agency. What’s crazy is I’m not even engaging in hyperbole. Scary. |
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Posted: 12/28/2018 7:37:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can somebody show me again all the people convicted for NFA violations? And, please do not include the ones who were already in the act of committing a felony. Figure on the very conservative side there are probably around 100k illegal NFA items in the country and maybe two or three people a year get into trouble for owning them without any other additional charges and most of the time it's because they drew attention to themselves in one way or another. |
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Posted: 12/29/2018 2:49:41 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, you got me there . Not many 20'' barreled pistols running around but facts are facts.
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Posted: 12/29/2018 12:28:53 PM EDT
[#29]
I have a 11.5 inch pistol build coming up so I threw together the receiver, receiver extension, barrel (no muzzle device) and it measured out as a shade under 26".
This was without the brace on it, so something to be aware of in case some ATF agent or local cop decides that the brace should come off when they measure OAL. |
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Posted: 12/29/2018 9:58:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Anyone check the LOP on an SBA3 mounted to a Vltor A5 receiver extension?
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