Have a chance to get a new one at a real good price but I also have a chance to get a new Tikka CTR in .308 at a real good price also. I know these are totally different from one another so I need to make some decisions, for what I will use it for either one will fit the bill, my issue is which will be more of an ammo hog(Sig Im sure) and which company has good customer service in case parts are needed.

Just picked one up last week from a buddy that bought it a while back and never shot it.  I haven't had time to shoot it yet either but am looking forward to it.  I purchased a SIG BDX system for it.  Doesnt really help with your question but I will attempt a report on it when i finally get to shoot it.

Sig 716i has more proprietary stuff than most other AR-308 large-frames.  It's okay if you're a one-and-done, not a builder, but if you're into Lego's-for-Adults, you'll be pulling your hair out when it comes time to change or upgrade parts, like barrels, gas blocks, handguards, charging handle, barreled uppers, etc.

some folks have successfully installed an adjustable gas block, and SIG does make an ambi charging handle for the 716i.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/The-SIG-716I-TREAD-The-best-AR-308-AR-10-type-rifle-for-the-money-/45-521591/

I have owned both of the rifles you're asking about (Sig 716i and Tikka).   As you said, they're very different rifles designed for very different purposes.

My opinions:

Tikka ... very high quality rifle with awesome accuracy potential.  I'm not a fan of push-feed bolt actions, but these have the smoothest actions on the market.  Very good choice if you want a bolt action.

Sig 716i ... I had several of these rifles and ultimately sold them in favor of my HK MR762A1, LMT MWS, LMT MARS-H.  The Sig is a nice rifle for the price point, but it is clearly built to a price point.  I wouldn't consider it "doomsday" durable firearm.  Also, of the four or five I owned there was a considerable amount of variance in the materials and finishes used.  This is common to Sig.  They have a tendency to change specifications during production runs without informing the consumer.  They also abandon designs (Sig556) or release newer versions and cease supporting older versions (MCX).

My recommendations:

1) Do not buy either rifle.  If you're looking at a bolt action and semi-auto AR type I don't think you've determined what it is you NEED the rifle to do.  WANT is always important, and I think that is the driving factor for you.

2) Save your money and buy a LMT MWS.  It will match or exceed the Tikka accuracy and will be infinitely more "combat worthy" than the Sig.  Cost more? Yes.  Get more? Absolutely. Retain value better? It will appreciate while the others will depreciate.

ETA: the LMT will also allow you to change barrel lengths, materials, and calibers with nothing more than a torque wrench.  It takes about 1 minute.

I have a Sig MPX (SBR), 516 (SBR), and a 556R… I keep thinking I should finish the story with a 716…

It was never my intent to buy a bunch of sigs, I just keep getting them and enjoy shooting them a lot, so I buy more.

I recently sold mine. I didn’t like how heavy it was, and I don’t want a stainless barrel for pretty much anything these days. Sig made nitride carbon steel to start but it appears all recent models are DLC exteriors on stainless barrels. Barf.

I was going to replace it with a POF Rogue until I found out they’re stainless barrels too. Stainless doesn’t belong on a battle rifle and I’m not sure what the hell these companies are thinking.

I’m back at square one now. Aside from the HK M110A1 all of the 308’s are ridiculously heavy or filled with compromises that make no sense. The best hope is PSA reviving the G2, but their 308 offerings suck the hardest unless you want an 18” stainless pig with a Wish quality rail.

The 716I is the best AR308/AR-10 for the money.

Go check out the thread below.... Out of 17 pages, @GaryT1776 is the only owner that had legitimate QC issues or his guns were fucked with at the shop. Unfortunately since there isn't spare parts support you never know but his issue was a single occurrence. Somehow like with Tim @MiltaryArms, he attracted the bad apples. If assistance could of been applied when dealing with SIG, I believe he would of had better outcomes. No fault of his own and 100% on SIG QC and CS but his perspective is simply that, not a fact or representation of the line except in regards to different finishes on BCGs and Barrels. Quality and performance remained unchanged though but after going 0/5 can you blame Gary for not sticking around. Infact SIG has remedied any customer complaint I've been aware of since these 716I threads started or the rifles debut even Gary's, but not in a timely or effective manner.
Also I never asked but did you get/source all 5 of your 716I's from the same retailer/distributor @GaryT1776 ? I can't recall. What did they say and did they offer to deal with SIG after they sold you a few issues, unless it was separate sellers?
Considering all the rifles and different projects SIG has been working on since the 716I 2019 release, I think SIG is doing just fine. Still no excuse for Gary's experiences. Regardless of mine or anybody's opinion the rifle is doomsday worthy, especially in the minds of the 100,000+ Jawans on the LOC in India and I'm sure to the few thousand American owners, and to say other wise is laughable. You want to spend more, go for it but for now you don't need to. Look at the guns your comparing it to, if SIG pimped the 716I out like LMT, KAC, H&K, Noveske or LaRue what would really change besides the price? Maybe an Ambi Bolt Catch and Release or Modularity of barrel length and caliber, a better looking finish maybe..... If that is your choice, go for it but don't make it sound like the 716I can't run against any of the above in performance because that is B.S.! Oh and for the price if you want spare parts, buy a parts 716I if your that worried. Compared to a few of the rifles listed above, you could buy 2x716I's, good glass, accessories, a suppressor and ammo.

@olds442tyguy .... I never believed it was about the weight. You were onboard from the beginning, then started questioning build quality & specs. Then after that episode where a brand new owner popped up and complained about his barrel being phosphated, the thread lost its way a bit. Boy what a cry baby ordeal that was and I shared it across 3 forums taking the bait and trying to assist and inform. Boy did I learn my lesson helping that boy cry wolf. It turned out that phosphated barrels wasn't a problem, but instead debating over Nitride and DLC, or Chromelined and Stainless began! Olds, you were sure the barrels were uncoated for a while and I still don't know exactly what I have. Nobody knew WTF and really still doesn't unless your a metallurgist or coatings specialist or been around newer SIGs lately because in some cases, good luck for those of us who arent or haven't. One thing that is clear is quality materials are used, just what exactly....
Anyhow, after that mindfucking, it seems you took the first chance to unload your 716I and it seemed finishes and weight were it. SIG was definitely no help at the time and still really isn't because they couldn't unfuck themselves on simple specs. Then again most large corporation CS reps tend to suck at knowledge but not assistance if you know what your talking about and how to lead them and here is where SIG is great IMO. Funny thing with your situation @olds442tyguy was, performance was never one of the issues you reported that I can recall! Was there any? It seemed like peace of mind regarding finishing and material spec was needed and the weight of not getting those answers and/or clarification was what was really weighing on you. I figured you lost confidence in the rifle and it had to go. Your money to spend how you wish. Good luck with whatever you choose.

There is a member here, @Coregon that could probably help us out but I think he has bigger responsibilities than the 716I. @Coregon if you do see this, any spec clarification would be very helpful.






I'm still curious to what exactly the H&K, KAC or LMT can do, that is so much better than the SIG, it would justify spending substantially more money for?

@GLD1980

You have been continuously very fair in your assessment of my views on the Sig 761i, and for that I am grateful.  Thank you.

Before I answer your questions, I want to mention that like MAC (Military Arms Channel) I seem to be a magnet for gun-lemons.  I suspect the shear volume of guns that have passed through his, and my own, hands plays a role in this situation.  As the number of guns tested increases so does the statistical probability of encountering problems.    I built my first AR15 in 1984.  Later that year I bought a factory Colt AR.  In the 38 years that have passed since then I have owned, tried, shot, and trained with countless rifles and handguns.  As a serious firearms hobbyist / enthusiast I enjoyed trying the "newest offerings" available on the commercial market.  That said, my overall experience with Sig rifles has not overly positive.

When Sig first introduced the Sig556 series I bought several of the ER guns.  The very early guns were full of SigSAN (Swiss) parts, and worked great.  Sig quickly depleted those parts and replaced them with US made parts.  While this was happening the QA/QC on assembly decreased.  The third, and final, Sig556ER I bought literally had the trigger guard FALL OUT of the gun the first time I took it to the range.  It also had a casing stuck in the chamber that required a trip back to Sig.  They had to rebarrel the gun.

Then Sig introduced the Sig556 Classic model.  I had several of these over the years.  The buttstock quality reminded me of the Matel toys I played with in the late 1970's.  On a rifle that was $1500 in mid-2000s made this a non-starter.

Later Sig introduced the Sig556 Patrol.  This was available with a SigSAN style 550 stock but they shortened the gas piston to the Sig553 length.  Reliability was an issue for me with weak (READ: Russian) ammo.  I also had one with the top rail mounted off center making it impossible to zero.  Sig replaced the rifle.

Later Sig introduced the Sig556XI.  This had some innovative features, and hey by the FOURTH generation of a gun based upon the wildly reliable Sig550 ... they finally were figuring it out.  HOWEVER, Sig decided to abandon the design.

I had a lot of issue with Sig556 rifles.  All told I owned:

(1) Sig556ER [Swiss Parts]
(2) Sig556ER [US Parts]
(1) SIg556 ER Upper
(3) Sig556 Classic
(1) Sig556 Patrol SWAT
(2) Sig556 XI

Then came the MCX ...

We all remember how Sig had to recall the GEN 1, then introduced the GEN 1.5 then the Virtus.  Each time abandoning the previous version (and support for it).  The MCX is a modernized AR180 (of which I have owned several) in many ways.  The AR180 system is interesting, but in typical Sig fashion they didn't invest in testing instead opting to beta test on the consumer.  Additionally, Sig ALWAYS changes specs during production to REDUCE THEIR COST. Sig typically introducing a rifle with the best parts / spec sheet but slowly transitions to cheaper fabrication / finishing without informing the consumer.  This is an unethical practice. Anyway, I had:

(3) Sig MCX (various generations)

This brings us to the Sig 716i (the only other Sig rifle I have owned).  As mentioned, I had five of these:

22M004xxx
22M005xxx
22M006xxx
22M007xxx
22M014xxx

To directly answer your questions:

(1) was purchased from a local gun shop.
(1) was purchased on this forum.
(3) were purchased from large online retailers and shipped to my friend / FFL for transfer to me.

The online retailers were:

- Locked and Loaded
- Gun Prime
- Hinterland Outfitters

The rifle that did not have the ejector pin came from the local gun shop.  They volunteered to send it to Sig for me.  We called Sig CS and were told it would be 3-6 months before the part was available.  Sig CS offered the shop a RMA label.  I opted to have Sig send the part directly to me.  After a very long time (and several calls) they sent me a cam pin.  After several more calls and more time they sent me the extractor pin.

The rifle that had the gas ring issues came from Gun Prime.

The rest of my issues (mostly failures to feed, extract, and/or eject) were dealt with direct to Sig since I wasn't about to ship the rifle back to an online retailer just to have them ship it to Sig.

You bring a seriously interesting question about what other guns offer above and beyond the Sig 716i.  I will address this in the next post.

@GLD1980

You asked a very thought provoking question / comment:

"You want to spend more, go for it but for now you don't need to. Look at the guns your comparing it to, if SIG pimped the 716I out like LMT, KAC, H&K, Noveske or LaRue what would really change besides the price? Maybe an Ambi Bolt Catch and Release or Modularity of barrel length and caliber, a better looking finish maybe..... If that is your choice, go for it but don't make it sound like the 716I can't run against any of the above in performance because that is B.S.! Oh and for the price if you want spare parts, buy a parts 716I if your that worried. Compared to a few of the rifles listed above, you could buy 2x716I's, good glass, accessories, a suppressor and ammo."

I have quite a lot of experience with all of the alternatives guns you mention apart from a Noveske 308 or LaRue 308.  I have substantial experience with LMT MWS and MARS-H.

Out of all of the various HK MR762A1, LMT MWS, LMT MARS-H, and KAC SR25 I have used only one rifle had an issue.  It was a recent production LMT MWS that absolutely refuses to extract.   This is in stark contrast with the Sig 716i which all seemed to suffer from some issue.  Additionally, unlike Sig, when the other companies make changes to their specs they announce them:

HK MR762A1 ... they changed the barrel weight, rail system, thread pitch.  All were announced and widely discussed.  These changes were not due to problems with the previous design.  They were a response to customer requests.  HK is known for their engineering and testing.  
KAC SR25 ... they are so vocal about their improvements it makes them seem a little like shills (since the military refused to adopt their product improved versions and kept buying older versions with known issues).
LMT ... they offer both MWS (partial ambi) and MARS (full ambi).  They make it clear what features each has.  They also offer a variety of monotholic rail options (SL8, MLOK, 1913).  They offer many barrel lengths, materials, weights.  They are VERY clear about what you're getting.  They don't change specs because they omega-tested their products before release.

RATING THE PRODUCTS
I will list the products in order (top best / bottom worst)

QA / QC

HK MR762A1
KAC SR25
LMT MARS
LMT MWS
Sig 716i

INNOVATION IN DESIGN

LMT MARS
LMT MWS
HK MR762A1
KAC SR25
Sig 716i

ACCURACY

HK MR762A1
LMT MARS
LMT MWS
KAC SR25
Sig 716i

RELIABILITY

HK MR762A1
KAC SR25 / LMT MARS
LMT MWS
Sig 716i

CONSISTENCY IN PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS / MATERIAL QUALITY

HK MR762A1
LMT MARS / LMT MWS
KAC SR25
Sig 716i

MY CONCLUSIONS BASED UPON MY EXPERIENCES

I agree with GLD1980 in many ways.  The average consumer does not need the performance, innovation, QA/QC, accuracy, engineering / testing, etc that HK / LMT / KAC are known for having.

The average consumer doesn't use their firearms enough to warrant the extra cost associated with the "Gucci Death Squad" alternative options.  Most people simply do not shoot their guns enough to see the difference.  As GLD1980 said, these folks would be better served with a Sig 716i.  Out of all of the non-LMT/KAC/HK options I would still recommend a Sig 716i as a very good entry level AR10.  In fact, when they were $1300 I thought they were a bargain.  Now that they're approaching $1500 I no longer feel like they're a bargain.  

AR10 pattern rifles are an interesting niche area in our hobby.

You have four tiers:

Gucci Death Squad:  HK / LMT / KAC
Serious Shooter: LaRue / Noveske
Hobbyist: POF / Sig 716i / ArmaLite
Economy: PSA / S&W / Aero

Obviously the above is my opinion and someone will get butt-hurt because their XYZ is just as good as my HK MR762A1.  I'm happy for you.  You found the Grail.  Please buy a lottery ticket and share the wealth with me when you win.

Each person has to consider a number of factors when buying a rifle:

1) Why am I buying this rifle?  What is its intended purpose?
2) How do I plan on setting up this rifle to accomplish its stated purpose?
3) How often do I plan on using this rifle?
4) Will I shoot this rifle enough to require parts replacements?  How "supported" is the design?  Does the manufacturer have a long track record in this market segment?  What about military contracts?
5) What is my budget?
6) What is my exit strategy (should I decide I made a mistake or want to try something else)?

If you answer these questions and your answer yields PSA PA-10 then buy it, and enjoy it.  If you answer and you need a $9,000 SR25 then buy it, and enjoy it.

For me personally ...

I enjoy shooting immensely.  I shoot A LOT.  I don't want to deal with QA/QC or engineering problems.  I, therefore, spend accordingly.  To someone else the journey of "perfecting" their rifle might be fun or educational and a lower priced product with a degree of "risk" is acceptable.

In the end, buy the best you can afford and SHOOT, SHOOT SOME MORE, and then take a few classes with your rifle.  This is where you really learn about the product.

Great questions GLD1980.  Thank you for your fair treatment of me especially in light of our very divergent opinions of the Sig.

ETA: I almost forgot to mention ... HK's proprietary magazine ... ... HK being HK.

If I were in the market to buy a single AR10 type rifle today ... what would I purchase?

I would have a difficult time deciding between a LMT MARS-H and HK MR762A1.

Mine ran just fine and was a laser. I just don’t want a stainless barrel that’s going to last half as long and be more prone to thermal shift.

The weight did add up. 308 recoil isn’t as bad as some think, but I did see a significant loss in my 25/50/100 splits. Not just to 5.56, but to my buddy’s pencil barrel M5 too.

A 7 pound 308 is no longer unrealistic. Something like the MWS that weighs in at 10 pounds with a 16” barrel is outright unacceptable this day and age. There’s no amount of modularity that justifies weighing that much.

I’m not sure what I’ll buy for a 308 next. To be honest, I think they all kind of suck when it comes to specifications. If POF used carbon steel barrels in the Rogue I’d be all over it, but they don’t. The HK M110A1 is probably the closest to being a refined modern battle rifle, but it’s still heavier than I think a battle rifle should be, since now we all use optics and other stuff that adds weight.

As it sits, the only one you can whip around and run and gun like it’s a 5.56 is the POF Rogue. The rest are pretty much best for DMR type roles. 308 can be ran nearly as fast as 5.56, but most of the rifles can’t be ran nearly as fast as an AR15. That’s not the fault of the cartridge, it’s the fault of the rifles on the market.

The MARS-H with MLK monolithic upper and 16" LW barrel comes in at 8.768 pounds with LMT's heavy SOPMOD stock on it.  I've weighed about three dozen LMT SOPMOD and B5 Enhanced SOPMODs.  The average weight is 11.9 ounces.  There are completely acceptable stocks that are 4 ounces (.25 pounds) lighter.  This would bring a MARS-H down to 8.518 pounds.

9.03 lbs (MARS-H with 16LW barrel)
-0.262 lbs (MLK upper)
-0.25 lbs (substitute lighter stock which every comparison gun has on it)
___________________________________________________________

8.518 pounds with the modularity of quick-change barrels and infinite optical device mounting options / sight-optic-zero-rigidity of the monolithic system.

For reference, a Colt AR15A4 with "government profile barrel" and plastic handguards weighs 7.71 pounds.

ETA: The Sig716i is listed at 8.5 pounds with a MagPul SLK stock on it. The SLK weighs 7.9 ounces.  If you subtract the SOPMOD average weight from the SLK listed weight (11.9 - 7.9) you get the 4 ounce / 0.25 pound reduction I listed above.

This makes the MARS-H MLK with SLK the exact same weight as a Sig 716i

I am all for weight reduction, but not at the expense of features or durability.  I went deep into LW AR15 barrels for a while but after a couple of high volume classes I realized LW has a place (a gun that is carried a lot and shot a little) but not necessarily for one that is shot-to-hot.  Stringing doesn't matter at 100 yards but when a 2MOA gun hots-up to 4MOA suddenly a shot that would have been a hit at 400 yards is a miss.

ETA: I always thought the quick-change barrel feature of a MRP/MWS was "neat but not that functional for me".  I was more interested in the rigidity of the monolithic upper (for mounting various sighting devices).  However, I have found that I have used the barrel change feature FAR MORE than I would have ever expected.  In fact, the only reason I own anything apart from LMT MRP/MWS is because I simply like HK's MR762 a great deal.

Did they start making rifles in those configurations? Last I heard you had to start with a heavy barrel and buy the LW separately to the tune of an extra $600-$800.

And I don’t consider the 716i light. That was part of why I dumped it. If 8.5 pounds the absolute best a platform can do on weight, I’m still out.

As to the LW barrel profile, I’ve ran them hot and shot at 200 yards in the process. Haven’t ever failed to hit what I was aiming at, unless it was my fault. I doubt there’s any scenario where I’m bullet hosing and then shooting for groups at 400 yards.

I honestly don't know what configurations they're selling now.  It is really difficult to find any MWS/MARS-H at this time.  The LW barrels must be popular because they're more expensive than a standard weight.  The only way I can rationalize this "supply and demand".  

@GaryT1776

Your a gentleman and I appreciate your posts and contributed knowledge. I 100% agree with everything you said above. Especially how you explained the process of why (?'s), and the how to's a new buyer should follow before selecting a Battle Rifle.
In my opinion Yes, you should absolutely buy the best rifle you can get for your money and you explained some great qualifying questions new owners should ask themselves before adding that new rifle to the safe.

One of my first questions I ask myself after ¹establishing what my specific needs or requirements to be fulfilled are, is ²how soon do I want or need this requirement fulfilled, and ³what is the market availability for my needs. When you step into the world of a fighting rifle everyone gets caught up with all the bells and whistles and wants what SOCOM or JSOC is using and not everybody needs to be Ranger Regiment Ready. The Taliban and Al-Qaeda sure is hell weren't equipped with modern equipment and put up a fight and so can you.

After reading posts relating to specifically this topic and looking at a few GB ad's for the few available models sold, the atmospherics during and post C-19 relating towards the KAC, LMT, H&K & Noveske etc show extremely high prices & suggest only a worsening trend for the future IMO.
Our current government, possible AWB's, our shit economy, supply & demand, coupled with the strained manufacturing and limited availability has brought the price of high end Battle Rifles into the cost realm of small used cars unless your ok waiting for 1-2 years for a Qualified Professional or a Lucky Retailer or distributer direct buy. We just witnessed how much the few M5 MCX SPEAR NGSW's went for. It blew my mind. People fear the future and are preparing, though they're late it's better than never and they have the cash to drive the cost up and it is becoming unreal trying to become an owner of a fine piece of present and past Combat History relating to the AR-10/ M110 & Variants and the AR-308.

I really wish you could of shot my 716I @GaryT1776.  It's been a gem. Smooth as butter and a true tack driver. I am the weak point. I do get the frustration with SIG, they can be annoying but their quality and designs improve not worsen so it's hard to be upset.
I too had a Gen1 556 SWAT FDE and yeah QC wasn't the greatest but SIG fixed the one small issue I had and always stood by me and made it right and the gun was a solid perfomer capable of MOA or better groups with MK262. I also had a P229SSE, P226T, P229N, P238N but divorce made those all go by by to stay afloat.
My new wife got me a 556R Gen2 which is a 7.62x39 laser lol, and I love it. Yeah it sucks that SIG moves on but the MCX is a better platform. Don't like your Gen1 upgrade, just like your H&K's, LMT's, KAC's or Noveskes it will sell. For most likely more than you paid. Says something about SIG.

When I was in the market for a large framed AR, I realized I didn't want to build it. I wanted a quality house built AR and was going to go with the AERO M5E1 but the thread here was filled with gas issues and problems and PSA was no different. Although they can be built to be great guns, obviously many ARFCOM'ers are not professional builders and neither am I. I originally wanted the H&K, LMT, Noveske or an OBR from LaRue. I also looked at the DD which is nice. They all are amazing and I wanted DI so that cancelled out the SIG716G2 or SCAR and other weapons. I hadn't even realized SIG had the DI 716I. Personally I group SIG in with the Top Teir Manufacturer's category, regardless of what ARF thinks so when India picked up 144,000 units, and 1yr post the first 72,000 units being delivered and fielded there were no complaints and the Indians loved it, I was sold. I later joined thier forum to discuss it with them.
https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/indian-army-sig-sauer-716-assault-rifle.81277/
I looked up the build specs and did further research and concluded that the 716I was/is the best bang for the buck. Yeah it doesn't swap barrels, and it doesnt have different barrel lengths but anything one of the above rifles can do, so can the SIG! I'll bet the SIG will be just as reliable as well. I was never in a situation whereas afterwards I didn't maintain my weapon, so fretting over finishes or barrel types shouldn't matter because In the fight they can all sustain damage from abuse. I melted an FN M249 Barrel once. Shit happens regardless if not properly used.
Do I still want one of the fancier weapons? Sure, but only after my gaps are are filled and I am Night Fighting which I am not yet.

Realistically speaking from strictly a cost to needs perspective, I cannot justify spending the money required for simply the admission into the high end rifle club, when if we were to run a course of fire or durability test, the 716I would possibly equal or best some of the competition. Now if we're talking who shoots the tightest group, or swaps this or Ambi that, the SIG will fall just a tad bit short, but it weighs less without a pencil barrel and does just as much as the rest of the field without costing $3-5k or more per unit before inflation hits.

The SIG is a mid teir built gun priced low that throws Top Teir punches. To bad everyone is focused on the NGSW because they hit it out the park with the 716I.

The 716I served me so well and I like what SIG has done recently I've recommitted several thousand dollars thier way with more plans for the future.
I bought an M400 SDI Switchblade Pistol, a 716G2 Patrol FDE, a 365XL, a 516G2Patrol and a MCX Rattler Canebrake. I also have a 516G2 Tactical Patrol URG on a backorder with plans for some more. It's not often where a single manufacturing house can supply all your needs but SIG is reforming and has been restructuring for some time and the refined SIG is a product I like. A .308 Cross, another 716I, an M400SDI Patrol, and some more MCX's are in my future.

I never understood why SIG doesn't rate well among many but It have never had issues and I've asked some insane shit from them.

Seriously if anyone ever needs help with SIG I will deal with CS as your personal assistant and you can help me out back in gun accessories or ammo you probably have laying around lol. SIG just sent me a BNIB Romeo4T FDE ballistic circle dot as a $30 upgrade because the used Romeo4T Ballistic Circle Plex I bought beat up from Amazon for $270 used was defective. There amazing warranty not mine, I just hold them to it. Same with Crimson Trace in regards to there $300 CMR-301 green laser illuminator lol. I pay $150-180 in anticipation of issues or missing items and CT renews for free. These are good companies in my opinion so I give them my money.

To finish up this conversation yes there are better built and better looking guns than the SIG that definitely cost more but they offer very little in actual measured gain for the several thousands more you will spend IMO. Your money so don't let me dissuade any of you because I buy what I want and so should you! That good ol Freedom boys, excercise it while we still can and stock up on what you can get that will work and leave money available to get other items on your check/prep list.

@Danus_ex just posted this over at this thread.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Best-AR-10-battle-rifle-under-9-pounds/121-774135/?r=-1&page=1&anc=8459203#i8459203

I have since reinstalled and rezeroed my optics, slings, lights, irons, IR, etc. on all that shit so I won't be able to get other naked measurements easily.

I probably should've weighed the MWS with the lightweight barrel installed. I actually switched from the light back to the medium as the weight difference wasn't very noticeable once you've got an optic, suppressor, and full mag hanging off it as well. A good sling matters more.

Also worth note: LaRue OBR weighs in at 9.5# with a 16” barrel, probably 10# with a 20”.

That’s a chunky girl to carry around, especially with a heavy optic on top (example: NF ATACR is going to add at least 2# to that).