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Posted: 11/6/2018 4:38:03 PM EDT
[#1]
6.5G either 16/18" or go SBR
pros: cheap wolf 100gr ammo at sun 30 cents/round. Also match and hunting ammo available. Able to go to 1k or use as very effective SBR. You should do both cons: no factory subs you can find barrels sub $200 for sure, decent ones. Good luck |
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Posted: 11/6/2018 4:48:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Keep the 556 upper. Cheap, plentiful, better at some things.
Get both. 458 is a thumper but expensive and more of a specialty round. 6.8 and 6.5 have a lot of similarities but Grendel has cheap plinking ammo and will out perform 6.8 if you get out past a few hundred yards. That's why I went with Grendel. 300blk is good out of short barrels especially if you want to run a can. 762x39 is like 300blk supers but takes special (and notoriously questionable) mags and bolts. For hunting with a 16" barrel, cheapish plinking, longer range shooting, I'd say go with a second 6.5 Grendel. |
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Posted: 11/6/2018 4:54:30 PM EDT
[#3]
.22LR. Cheap to shoot!
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Posted: 11/6/2018 4:57:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Grendel, cheap ammo options, precision ammo options hunting ammo options, and it's very effective on cold and warm targets.
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Posted: 11/6/2018 5:16:37 PM EDT
[#5]
Thanks for the replies so far, guys. How does the Grendel do out of a 20" barrel? I just got a Magpul PRS2 stock for my AR as I found one for a great deal, so I am almost considering getting a longer barrel for whatever I get (especially the Grendel) and making it into a DMR-type of rig.
Also, who makes good bolt carrier groups for the Grendel? And does the port need to be larger for a Grendel? I did see that if you go 458 SOCOM that the ejection port of the upper needs to be enlarged, is this the case with the Grendel as well? Thanks in advance! |
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Posted: 11/6/2018 5:57:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Grendel is probably the best all-around AR cartridge, though the Valkyre is coming up.
Question: do you reload? Either way, how important is factory ammo availability? |
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Posted: 11/6/2018 6:16:27 PM EDT
[#7]
6.8 spc is the way to go
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Posted: 11/6/2018 6:16:32 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 11/6/2018 6:18:32 PM EDT
[#9]
No need for a larger ejection port with 6.5 Grendel.
The only parts that are different are: * Barrel * Bolt * Mags * Muzzle device thread pattern/orifice size 
As far as which barrel length to go with? With 123gr SMK or Scenar, you have: 20" 2550fps mv, supersonic to 1050yds 18" 2490fps mv, supersonic to 1020yds 16" 2440fps mv, supersonic to 1000yds 14.5" 2390fps mv, supersonic to 950yds 12" 2330fps mv, supersonic to 925yds  For hunting reach with the 123gr SST 20" 2500fps 400yds 18" 2460fps 375yds 16" 2420fps 350yds 14.5" 2370fps 325yds 12.5" 2250fps 275yds This is for factory ammo. 123gr Scenar from AA or PF, and 123gr SST from Hornady. With the 129gr Nosler Accubond Long Range, you get about the same supersonic reach as the faster 123gr Scenar, with hunting reach farther than 99% of hunters will ever even think about taking a shot at. The 129gr ABLR expands down to 1300fps, so it's a very lethal bullet, very accurate, with a high BC and early expansion as soon as it penetrates. Since it's bonded, it doesn't lose a lot of weight and the jacket remains stuck to the lead core. Even from a 12.5" Grendel, it has 900ft-lbs and 1774fps impact speed at 350yds. 
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Posted: 11/6/2018 6:23:19 PM EDT
[#10]
if you're still accepting suggestions, i'd look at 20 Practical
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Posted: 11/6/2018 6:29:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:This will be my first conversion for an AR so I want to do something really exciting. Tony |
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Posted: 11/6/2018 7:07:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if you're still accepting suggestions, i'd look at 20 Practical Quote HistoryQuoted:
if you're still accepting suggestions, i'd look at 20 Practical Quoted:
No need for a larger ejection port with 6.5 Grendel. The only parts that are different are: * Barrel * Bolt * Mags * Muzzle device thread pattern/orifice size http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/65%20Grendel%20Reloading/Cartridge20Utility20Comparison_zpsvckmugph.jpg As far as which barrel length to go with? With 123gr SMK or Scenar, you have: 20" 2550fps mv, supersonic to 1050yds 18" 2490fps mv, supersonic to 1020yds 16" 2440fps mv, supersonic to 1000yds 14.5" 2390fps mv, supersonic to 950yds 12" 2330fps mv, supersonic to 925yds http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/fullsizeoutput_105_zpsgituaykh.jpeg For hunting reach with the 123gr SST 20" 2500fps 400yds 18" 2460fps 375yds 16" 2420fps 350yds 14.5" 2370fps 325yds 12.5" 2250fps 275yds This is for factory ammo. 123gr Scenar from AA or PF, and 123gr SST from Hornady. With the 129gr Nosler Accubond Long Range, you get about the same supersonic reach as the faster 123gr Scenar, with hunting reach farther than 99% of hunters will ever even think about taking a shot at. The 129gr ABLR expands down to 1300fps, so it's a very lethal bullet, very accurate, with a high BC and early expansion as soon as it penetrates. Since it's bonded, it doesn't lose a lot of weight and the jacket remains stuck to the lead core. Even from a 12.5" Grendel, it has 900ft-lbs and 1774fps impact speed at 350yds. http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/2015-07-052021.16.53_zpsucvvyv81.jpg Quoted:
Question: do you reload? Either way, how important is factory ammo availability? |
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Posted: 11/6/2018 7:53:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What does the 20 Practical offer over something like a 204 Ruger? I have a Ruger No. 1 in 204 Ruger that I use as a varmint rifle. I'm not familiar at all with the 20P... .204 new brass isn't cheap, neither is .222 Remington Mag |
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Posted: 11/6/2018 9:37:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Save your upper....
If you sell it. You will end up replacing it anyway. Cheap ammo. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 12:26:41 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
6.8 spc is the way to go 3X as many factory loads CHEAPER to shoot than Grendel with the sole exception of the Wolf steel stuff. Higher muzzle energy and velocity across all loads. Grendel's higher BC overtakes 6.8 at about 400 yards if you plan to shoot that far. Grendel is basically 300BLK energy and velocity in shorter barrels. 6.8 is way faster from the same barrel length. -The chief Grendel fan quotes (literally) 10 year old data to dispute this No type 1 or type 2 bolt confusion If you don't/won't shoot steel cased ammo or care about ranges beyond 400 yards then 6.8 wins hands down. If you feed your gun steel cased ammo and feel it's important to you to remain supersonic at 900 yards then power to you, Grendel's your choice. -Stooxie |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 1:29:44 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just because you'll never get the full story from the Grendel folks, some pros of 6.8: 3X as many factory loads CHEAPER to shoot than Grendel with the sole exception of the Wolf steel stuff. Higher muzzle energy and velocity across all loads. Grendel's higher BC overtakes 6.8 at about 400 yards if you plan to shoot that far. Grendel is basically 300BLK energy and velocity in shorter barrels. 6.8 is way faster from the same barrel length. -The chief Grendel fan quotes (literally) 10 year old data to dispute this No type 1 or type 2 bolt confusion If you don't/won't shoot steel cased ammo or care about ranges beyond 400 yards then 6.8 wins hands down. If you feed your gun steel cased ammo and feel it's important to you to remain supersonic at 900 yards then power to you, Grendel's your choice. -Stooxie Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
6.8 spc is the way to go 3X as many factory loads CHEAPER to shoot than Grendel with the sole exception of the Wolf steel stuff. Higher muzzle energy and velocity across all loads. Grendel's higher BC overtakes 6.8 at about 400 yards if you plan to shoot that far. Grendel is basically 300BLK energy and velocity in shorter barrels. 6.8 is way faster from the same barrel length. -The chief Grendel fan quotes (literally) 10 year old data to dispute this No type 1 or type 2 bolt confusion If you don't/won't shoot steel cased ammo or care about ranges beyond 400 yards then 6.8 wins hands down. If you feed your gun steel cased ammo and feel it's important to you to remain supersonic at 900 yards then power to you, Grendel's your choice. -Stooxie Ammoseek shows 176 options for 6.5 Grendel. Are we saying that if there are 3x that for 6.8, it's a better choice? Show me the comparison where 6.5 Grendel is even close to 300 BLK energy and velocity, because that's the first I've heard that. Grendel crushes 300 BLK and .30-30 even, from shorter barrels. I see this said all the time about how much faster 6.8 is from shorter barrels, but it never pans out. The BC overtakes inferior BC projectiles much closer than 400yds. If it didn't, I would have built a 12" 6.8 SPC II and not another Grendel. You don't have to make these technical discussions personal. Just post your results and let people see the reality for themselves, rather than repeating claims that have been disproven over and over again. If you want superior terminal performance on game or steel, with higher hit probability, 6.5 Grendel sells itself. 6.8 falls short every time, which is why I don't have one. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 1:34:59 AM EDT
[#17]
That's very helpful, thank you! I do have one question. When looking up factory ammo I don't see anything using the heavier .260 cal bullets like the 140+ grainers. Are the bullets too long on those to fit in the magazines for a 6.5 Grendel AR? There are no factory loads I'm aware of over 130gr though. 129gr Nosler Accubond factory load is the cartridge to beat in the AR15 platform. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 2:02:18 AM EDT
[#18]
OP if you want a cheap caliber to shoot, go with 7.62x39. PSA had uppers cheap the other day. $229.00 with CH & BCG.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa47-16-carbine-length-7-62x39-classic-upper-with-bcg-ch-5165449462.html 458 Socom is sweet, but price the ammo first. 6.5G is nice, so is 6.8 SPCII. If you do not reload, 6.8 may be a better choice between the 2. I see much more 6.8 ammo than I do 6.5G. I have both. Both have their place. Shooting over 300 or 400? 6.5G or .224V. Don't sell your current upper. You will regret it. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 9:01:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
3x as many factory loads, none of which can do what just one of the several popular 6.5 Grendel loads can do. The 123gr SST is a better target bullet than anything available for 6.8 SPC, and a better hunting bullet than anything available for 6.8 SPC. Why make umpteen loads that perform less than one that does it all? Ammoseek shows 176 options for 6.5 Grendel. Are we saying that if there are 3x that for 6.8, it's a better choice? Show me the comparison where 6.5 Grendel is even close to 300 BLK energy and velocity, because that's the first I've heard that. Grendel crushes 300 BLK and .30-30 even, from shorter barrels. I see this said all the time about how much faster 6.8 is from shorter barrels, but it never pans out. The BC overtakes inferior BC projectiles much closer than 400yds. If it didn't, I would have built a 12" 6.8 SPC II and not another Grendel. You don't have to make these technical discussions personal. Just post your results and let people see the reality for themselves, rather than repeating claims that have been disproven over and over again. If you want superior terminal performance on game or steel, with higher hit probability, 6.5 Grendel sells itself. 6.8 falls short every time, which is why I don't have one. To judge quantity of different factory loads you go to Ammoseek? WTF? That doesn't work. That might list a single load 50 times. Go to any online retailer and COUNT the number of different factory options. I usually get around 6 with Grendel and 17 or 18 with SPC. Whether or not someone cares is a different matter, it's still the FACT. I don't even have to address anything else you said. I've posted plenty of numbers, but reality can't compete with fantasy. Any reasonable person is willing to concede that 6.5G and 6.8SPC 1) aren't THAT different and 2) both have strengths and weaknesses. Except for you. -Stooxie |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 10:15:19 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP if you want a cheap caliber to shoot, go with 7.62x39. PSA had uppers cheap the other day. $229.00 with CH & BCG. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa47-16-carbine-length-7-62x39-classic-upper-with-bcg-ch-5165449462.html 458 Socom is sweet, but price the ammo first. 6.5G is nice, so is 6.8 SPCII. If you do not reload, 6.8 may be a better choice between the 2. I see much more 6.8 ammo than I do 6.5G. I have both. Both have their place. Shooting over 300 or 400? 6.5G or .224V. Don't sell your current upper. You will regret it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP if you want a cheap caliber to shoot, go with 7.62x39. PSA had uppers cheap the other day. $229.00 with CH & BCG. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa47-16-carbine-length-7-62x39-classic-upper-with-bcg-ch-5165449462.html 458 Socom is sweet, but price the ammo first. 6.5G is nice, so is 6.8 SPCII. If you do not reload, 6.8 may be a better choice between the 2. I see much more 6.8 ammo than I do 6.5G. I have both. Both have their place. Shooting over 300 or 400? 6.5G or .224V. Don't sell your current upper. You will regret it. Quoted: You can load up to 160gr in 6.5 Grendel. There are no factory loads I'm aware of over 130gr though. 129gr Nosler Accubond factory load is the cartridge to beat in the AR15 platform. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 11:02:27 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Keep the 556 upper. Cheap, plentiful, better at some things. <<< BEST ADVICE HERE Get both. Keep the 556 upper and build a lower for it. Can be done on the cheap right now. To directly answer your question about caliber, I'd recommend either a 6.5 Grendel 20" or .300 BLK 16" depending on what you want to do. My 6.5G with an Odin Works 20" barrel is more accurate than I am. Highly recommended. The .300 BLK in a 16" is ballistically a .30-30 Lite or a .32-20 +P. It is OK for the smallish southern whitetail or smaller pigs. There are a lot of other options out there. The 6.8 SPC II is the top. Nothing wrong with it if you're hunting under 300 meters with it. Plenty right with it. If I didn't have ready access to a 550 meter range, I may have gone that route. It does well with a 12.5" pistol/SBR combo. Think of the .450 Bushmaster as a .45 Super Long ACP +P. There are now a couple of bolt guns in this caliber also. Definitely works for piggies and deer at shorter ranges. I'm rebuilding a small ring Mauser with a conversion barrel for pig duty. Good alternative. That's my 2¢ worth, |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 1:26:45 PM EDT
[#22]
OP you in the rifle zone or the shotgun zone? If in the shotgun zone, you should look at the 450 BM.
Between 6.5G and 6.8, see what Dunhams or Meijers keeps in stock, I bet they will have 6.8 before 6.5G. I have shot 2 deer so far with my 6.8, but the 6.5G would have done just as well where I hunt. No long shots. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 1:52:49 PM EDT
[#23]
The only local place that carries 6.8 also carries 6.5
I have yet to see 6.8 at Wally World |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 1:53:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude, you are proving yourself to be the master of cherry picked information and false assumptions. That's not personal, that's quite objective. To judge quantity of different factory loads you go to Ammoseek? WTF? That doesn't work. That might list a single load 50 times. Go to any online retailer and COUNT the number of different factory options. I usually get around 6 with Grendel and 17 or 18 with SPC. Whether or not someone cares is a different matter, it's still the FACT. I don't even have to address anything else you said. I've posted plenty of numbers, but reality can't compete with fantasy. Any reasonable person is willing to concede that 6.5G and 6.8SPC 1) aren't THAT different and 2) both have strengths and weaknesses. Except for you. -Stooxie Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
3x as many factory loads, none of which can do what just one of the several popular 6.5 Grendel loads can do. The 123gr SST is a better target bullet than anything available for 6.8 SPC, and a better hunting bullet than anything available for 6.8 SPC. Why make umpteen loads that perform less than one that does it all? Ammoseek shows 176 options for 6.5 Grendel. Are we saying that if there are 3x that for 6.8, it's a better choice? Show me the comparison where 6.5 Grendel is even close to 300 BLK energy and velocity, because that's the first I've heard that. Grendel crushes 300 BLK and .30-30 even, from shorter barrels. I see this said all the time about how much faster 6.8 is from shorter barrels, but it never pans out. The BC overtakes inferior BC projectiles much closer than 400yds. If it didn't, I would have built a 12" 6.8 SPC II and not another Grendel. You don't have to make these technical discussions personal. Just post your results and let people see the reality for themselves, rather than repeating claims that have been disproven over and over again. If you want superior terminal performance on game or steel, with higher hit probability, 6.5 Grendel sells itself. 6.8 falls short every time, which is why I don't have one. To judge quantity of different factory loads you go to Ammoseek? WTF? That doesn't work. That might list a single load 50 times. Go to any online retailer and COUNT the number of different factory options. I usually get around 6 with Grendel and 17 or 18 with SPC. Whether or not someone cares is a different matter, it's still the FACT. I don't even have to address anything else you said. I've posted plenty of numbers, but reality can't compete with fantasy. Any reasonable person is willing to concede that 6.5G and 6.8SPC 1) aren't THAT different and 2) both have strengths and weaknesses. Except for you. -Stooxie I get a pistol-length barrel, go chrono a bunch of factory loads in the same weight ranges, and now we're back to seeing the speeds are the same and overlap depending on the barrel. The 400yds argument has been stated over and over to justify purchasing or continued investment in 6.8, when there is no advantage within 400yds. Not from 16" barrels, and not from 12" barrels. I don't understand why that statement keeps being made when there is no math to support it at the end of the day. Doesn't mean 6.8 is bad, just the numbers don't match up to the claims when comparing the 2. My 12" Grendel is far more capable than a 12" 6.8 because it will do everything the 12" 6.8 does within close range, then still reach out with high hit probability at long range. Factory loads. Last time I sat down and looked at every source for 6.5 Grendel factory ammunition, there were well over 50 options and counting. The recent factory load that changed things for me personally is the Hornady American Gunner (also available for the 6.8 SPC and 6.5CM). I can pick up a 200rd ammo box from Sportsman's for $140 without having to hand load, which frees up a lot of my time and produces great brass with each firing. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 2:11:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just post your results and let people see the reality for themselves, rather than repeating claims that have been disproven over and over If it’s a case of running the rifles over the same chronograph; i’ll play around to a degree, I have never seen Grendel ammunition for sale in any store i’ve been in.... for entertainment sake, maybe i’ll order some, but mail delivery time means it won’t be tomorrow if that would be the case. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 2:41:15 PM EDT
[#26]
I'm looking at Lone Star Boars forum, chrono results with 120gr SST from Blackstone Arms 12.5" 6.8 posted in 2015.
12.5" 6.8 SPC With tweaked chamber for more speed I shot 2 5rd strings of my each bullet. The Barnes 95gr TTSX are loaded in SSA brass with CCI 41 primers and 29 grains of AA2200. The Hornady 120gr SST’s are factory ammunition. Average ------ 2697 ----------- 2374 Min ----------- 2679 ----------- 2341 Max ----------- 2727 ----------- 2394 My 12" 6.5 Grendel, Faxon Barrel 120gr Federal OTM Match (11 sample readings) Average ------- 2384fps Min -----2360 Max ---2411 90gr Federal American Eagle TNT Factory Average ------ 2670 unsuppressed Average ------ 2683 suppressed withTBAC Ultra 5 I haven't chrono'd the 123gr SST but recent lots have been slower than previous lots in some of the other chrono readings I've seen from people. From a 16" or 18" barrel, 123gr SST has chrono'd 2440-2480fps for me. I'm looking at some of my 17.6" Lilja numbers, and they averaged 2457fps with only 5 samples. Hornady American Gunner from my 18" LaRue averaged 2441fps with 10 samples. 90gr TNT Federal from the 17.6" averaged 2893fps with 10 samples, 2900fps with 5 samples. 120gr OTM from 17.6" averaged 2484fps with 20 samples. We still don't know what the real BC for the 120gr 6.8 SST is because most people that tracks BCs don't bother to mess with projectiles that have such low numbers. The 123gr 6.5mm BC was overstated at .510, turns out to be .462, so we can run comparisons with stated BCs, or real for 6.5 and guesswork for 6.8, but the 6.5 still passes it up either way even with a slower mv. Are you saying your 14.7" 6.8 does 2500fps with 120gr SST factory ammo? |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 3:25:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote History[b]Originally Posted By LRRPF52
Are you saying your 14.7" 6.8 does 2500fps with 120gr SST factory ammo? Grendel 18 inch was 2425 average 6.8 14.7 Mv 2488 6.8 16 Mv 2529 6.8. 20.77. Mv 2644 Curiosity is getting the better of me..... I have 20 inch rifles in 5.56, 224 Valkyrie, 6.8 and 308...... i’m Going to order a 20 inch Grendel and bolt from Classicfirearms when I get home from work.... fair is fair, they all need shot side by side. The 6.8 will have a .77 inch advantage cause Stag likes it that way., i’ll Post results somewhere in Variants. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 3:43:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP you in the rifle zone or the shotgun zone? If in the shotgun zone, you should look at the 450 BM. Between 6.5G and 6.8, see what Dunhams or Meijers keeps in stock, I bet they will have 6.8 before 6.5G. I have shot 2 deer so far with my 6.8, but the 6.5G would have done just as well where I hunt. No long shots. Right now the Grendel is what I am leaning towards due to it's versatility as a target round and hunting round. The only long range rifle I have right now is my 300 Win Mag and I'd like something that can get some distance and not be as devastating on deer as the 300WM. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 3:51:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Yep, a good 75-100fps slower than 6.8 SPC in every situation. I've got hundreds of chrono results from my own testing (using a Lab Radar), as do zillions of others.
-Stooxie |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 3:53:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That right there, weeds out everything but the 458 SOCOM on your list of calibers. Tony 
(hesrightyouknow.gif) |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 3:54:04 PM EDT
[#31]
That's great speed from the 14.7" 6.8 SPC. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Your slower 18" Grendel exceeds it for energy by 125yds. My 12" Grendel exceeds it for energy at 275yds, speed at 300yds, assuming the 120gr isn't inflated, and using the Litz BC (not Hornady's) for the 123gr SST. I like the 12" because you can suppress and not have a really long gun. Both of them have over 2200 fps and over 1300ft-lbs at 100yds. My question looking at 14.5"/14.7" Grendel is will it do much for me that a 12" won't. I'm going to get a 13.7" barrel for my LaRue Stealth so I can pin & weld the Tranquilo brake to it to make 16" minimum, since I can't convert the lower to pistol, and I really like the LaRue RAT stock. The only time I'll be shooting my 12" Grendel at 100yds is for zero confirming and chance contact hunting. All my intentional shooting I do with it starts at about 350yds and goes out from there. 450yd steel is boring to hit even with a 4x scope, and this past Saturday, I went straight for 800yds out of the gate just for fun. After riding a magazine full on the 800yd, I dropped down to the 450yd steel and hit it every time. Hits hard, and you can see your own hits. Took my younger kids shooting for the first time as well. Here's the range at Buffalo Canyon in the North Springs Range Complex. The farther distances are off in the background, with steel all over the place. Lots of fun. 
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Posted: 11/7/2018 3:58:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, a good 75-100fps slower than 6.8 SPC in every situation. I've got hundreds of chrono results from my own testing (using a Lab Radar), as do zillions of others. -Stooxie It turns out to be within -50 to +85 fps most of the time, with smaller margins outside of that both ways. Then you look at BC and how higher BC slows down less as distance increases, and any advantage at the muzzle is gone within 75-150yds. This isn't hard math guys. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 3:59:53 PM EDT
[#33]
Why is this debate happening again? Both 6.5 and 6.8 are too similar to have any difference at distances under about 300ish yards. In that range an extra 75-100fps makes no difference to a deer/pig/whatever. OP if you are only hunting with it then buy either a 6.5 or 6.8. If you have a place where you are going to punch paper of kill coyotes at more distance, go with the 6.5. There is not enough deviation in speed with barrel length either, so pick your preferred length and move on. I personally stay away from the .45ish big bore calibers just because I like being able to use my .30 caliber can on all of my rifles so I try to stay under that threshold.
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Posted: 11/7/2018 4:53:14 PM EDT
[#34]
20mm Vulcan would be pretty badass.
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Posted: 11/7/2018 6:09:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's great speed from the 14.7" 6.8 SPC. Nothing wrong with that at all. Your slower 18" Grendel exceeds it for energy by 125yds. My 12" Grendel exceeds it for energy at 275yds, speed at 300yds, assuming the 120gr isn't inflated, and using the Litz BC (not Hornady's) for the 123gr SST. I like the 12" because you can suppress and not have a really long gun. Both of them have over 2200 fps and over 1300ft-lbs at 100yds. My question looking at 14.5"/14.7" Grendel is will it do much for me that a 12" won't. I'm going to get a 13.7" barrel for my LaRue Stealth so I can pin & weld the Tranquilo brake to it to make 16" minimum, since I can't convert the lower to pistol, and I really like the LaRue RAT stock. The only time I'll be shooting my 12" Grendel at 100yds is for zero confirming and chance contact hunting. All my intentional shooting I do with it starts at about 350yds and goes out from there. 450yd steel is boring to hit even with a 4x scope, and this past Saturday, I went straight for 800yds out of the gate just for fun. After riding a magazine full on the 800yd, I dropped down to the 450yd steel and hit it every time. Hits hard, and you can see your own hits. Took my younger kids shooting for the first time as well. Here's the range at Buffalo Canyon in the North Springs Range Complex. The farther distances are off in the background, with steel all over the place. Lots of fun. http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/65%20Grendel%20Reloading/thumbnail_20181103_170524_zpsecjrrxjr.jpg  . I'm just screwing around going full force Arfcom mentality, buy them both.... Or all of them. Who knows, maybe I'll fall in love with the Grendel. I like to see things for myself, 20 inch barrels are a favorite of mine. I'll start off with a Chrono test, and 400 drop test if everything arrives to get together before dear season kicks off. If you want to pick the round I run through the Grendel, I'm all ears. No reloads, all factory 185 Jugs for the 308, 90 SMK's for the Valk, and 120 SST for the 6.8 and we'll see how they hold up at 400 and maybe 600 time allowing. Range is at about 1000 ft asl.
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Posted: 11/7/2018 6:22:18 PM EDT
[#36]
With modern ballistics programs and accurate BC values, known mv, plus a Kestrel, I easily get 1st round hits even at distance.
With the 12", I'm not even dialing, but using the GRSC reticle. I'm definitely interested in what kind of actual drop data you get with the 120gr SST at 600yds, because it wouldn't surprise me if the .400 G1 BC was inflated, much like the 123gr SST was way inflated. On the flip side, the 129gr SST is deflated to .485, whereas Litz showed .495 G1. What does this mean for the average hunter? Not a single thing. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 6:44:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just because you'll never get the full story from the Grendel folks, some pros of 6.8: No type 1 or type 2 bolt confusion -Stooxie Both 6.8 and 6.5 are fine in an AR15 these days, but it wasn't always that way... 
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Posted: 11/7/2018 7:05:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Keep the 5.56 upper, buy/build a 6.5 Grendel.
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Posted: 11/7/2018 7:39:51 PM EDT
[#39]
It's already been stated over and over in this thread, for the most part under 400 for normal hunting it doesn't matter. Nobody has put any significant effort into actually comparing what is out there, I'm a barrel, bolt and a couple boxes of ammo away, so why not. I don't recommend the OP wait on me for anything. The chrono test I can do quick, but with hunting season I have two options. Set up 10 foot card board for a true drop test on family ground if everything arrives before deer season kicks off. Or go to my long range club, and probably have to dial and record drop there. I like the visual target impacts that anyone can see.
What I want to see in some form of parity is actual velocity in near configurations. With my chrono a 16 inch 6.8 120 sst is over 100 fps faster then an 18 inch Grendel 123 sst, the 20.77 barrel is about 220 fps faster. As Paul Harrell would say "that's significant" but not completely fair. All for entertainment, still shopping to see if I can find a good deal on complete 20 inch upper...… I picked heaviest for caliber for the other 3, but I don't have any practical experience with the Grendel in terms of what might be over rated factory velocity or bc, so barring any solid recommendations, I'll pick what looks to give it the best chances to compete. Predictions with a bit of insider knowledge. 224 Valkyrie smokes the other 3 with a 150 fps advantage over the 308 and near identical bc's 308 probably second having probably velocity and bc advantage over the Grendel 129 accubond if that's the best balanced round I can find between BC and velocity. 6.5 and 6.8 wildcards with velocity boost over the 18 inch Grendel I've shot, how much of that 220 fps advantage to the 6.8 will a 20 inch Grendel make? Also a completely different round then the 123 SST, so just a total question mark on how it will perform. Especially versus the other two. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 8:38:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
It's already been stated over and over in this thread, for the most part under 400 for normal hunting it doesn't matter. Nobody has put any significant effort into actually comparing what is out there, I'm a barrel, bolt and a couple boxes of ammo away, so why not. I don't recommend the OP wait on me for anything. The chrono test I can do quick, but with hunting season I have two options. Set up 10 foot card board for a true drop test on family ground if everything arrives before deer season kicks off. Or go to my long range club, and probably have to dial and record drop there. I like the visual target impacts that anyone can see. What I want to see in some form of parity is actual velocity in near configurations. With my chrono a 16 inch 6.8 120 sst is over 100 fps faster then an 18 inch Grendel 123 sst, the 20.77 barrel is about 220 fps faster. As Paul Harrell would say "that's significant" but not completely fair. All for entertainment, still shopping to see if I can find a good deal on complete 20 inch upper...… I picked heaviest for caliber for the other 3, but I don't have any practical experience with the Grendel in terms of what might be over rated factory velocity or bc, so barring any solid recommendations, I'll pick what looks to give it the best chances to compete. Predictions with a bit of insider knowledge. 224 Valkyrie smokes the other 3 with a 150 fps advantage over the 308 and near identical bc's 308 probably second having probably velocity and bc advantage over the Grendel 129 accubond if that's the best balanced round I can find between BC and velocity. 6.5 and 6.8 wildcards with velocity boost over the 18 inch Grendel I've shot, how much of that 220 fps advantage to the 6.8 will a 20 inch Grendel make? Also a completely different round then the 123 SST, so just a total question mark on how it will perform. Especially versus the other two. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 8:49:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Keep the 5,56 upper and build a 300BLK upper for it with an 8" bbl.
Install a brace. Winning. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 9:05:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Keep the 5,56 upper and build a 300BLK upper for it with an 8" bbl. Install a brace. Winning. 
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Posted: 11/7/2018 9:18:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
6.8 spc is the way to go |
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Posted: 11/8/2018 12:46:25 AM EDT
[#44]
I would keep the 5.56 upper unless you absolutely know that you will have zero use for it. As far as alternative calibers go I place my vote with 6.5 Grendel. Great all around cartridge with a lot of ammo/parts support.
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Posted: 11/8/2018 5:25:59 PM EDT
[#45]
I love my 9mm upper. Easy to switch back to .556 (takes about 10 seconds)
It is an Olympic Arms (no longer made). Been 100 percent for me- no need to switch anything out on lower- just switch upper and magazine adaptor. Cheap to shoot. |
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Posted: 11/8/2018 5:43:22 PM EDT
[#46]
Grendel. Equals the 6.8 out to 500 yards, surpasses it past that.
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Posted: 11/8/2018 9:29:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Call me picky if you want, but I won't do an SBR because I don't like the flex on braces and I also don't want to pay $200 to the government just so I can put a short barrel on something. I sold my MP5 just because I found the flex in the brace annoying and I didn't feel like going through the process to SBR it |
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Posted: 11/8/2018 10:47:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SBR process is pretty easy. The $200 sucks but it is what it is. 
I was very close to doing it a couple times with my MP5, but the wait times at the time I was considering it were supposedly horrendous. |
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Posted: 11/8/2018 11:04:16 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, sorry I should have been more clear. I know the process itself isn't a pain in the rear, what I don't like is having to wait forever to get the stamp approved. I'm a very impatient person
I was very close to doing it a couple times with my MP5, but the wait times at the time I was considering it were supposedly horrendous. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: SBR process is pretty easy. The $200 sucks but it is what it is.
I was very close to doing it a couple times with my MP5, but the wait times at the time I was considering it were supposedly horrendous. |
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Posted: 11/9/2018 12:13:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
(hesrightyouknow.gif) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: That right there, weeds out everything but the 458 SOCOM on your list of calibers. Tony
(hesrightyouknow.gif) |
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