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Posted: 4/30/2020 6:51:07 AM EDT
[#1]
I’d suggest looking into a lmt mrp. You can swap barrels in a minute and it’s a solid proven rifle.
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Posted: 4/30/2020 7:08:42 AM EDT
[#2]
Is there any particular reason you recommend that rifle?
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Posted: 4/30/2020 7:45:58 AM EDT
[#3]
Nevermind... washing my hands of this thread  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 8:01:16 AM EDT
[#4]
There are a lot of economical AND good rifles out there to fit your needs. Not saying either of the ones you mentioned are bad. Just that for your purposes you might be better buying a more moderately priced rifle and some good accessories (or ammo) than dropping a bunch on one REALLY good gun. Rolls Royce verses Chevy type argument when you are looking for a general use car.
Piston guns have advantages but are more complicated with more moving parts and a little more weight due to those parts. You may also need to be more careful with upgrades or parts as those piston systems may limit your options. Direct impingement guns are simpler and a bit lighter but run dirtier and require some maintenance. This is a proven system with years of service with commonly available parts (some piston systems are proprietary). Good daily driver brands will still be very accurate for your needs at 100-200 yrds. You need the higher end guns to more consistently shoot longer ranges (300-500) which is about the max of the performance of the commercial ammo in most cases. S&W, Colt, Ruger, Palmetto, DD, BCM and other advertisers you see listed here all make ~$500-1000 guns that will do 80-90% of what much higher cost guns will do. What I'm advocating here is to buy a decent gun and then optics, red dots, and other accessories still within your budget. You can always upgrade things as you become more experienced and knowledgeable with an AR. No reason to take a chance on buying something you will not like or are worried about shooting causing loss in value. Buy something decent then sell/trade/upgrade as needed and shoot it a lot! TONS of info on this site regarding pro's and con's of piston verse DI guns. I personally run DI just because its simple and I don't mind cleaning things. Start with iron sites till you can educate your self on optics. This will also give you a good foundation in shooting. Optics and other accessories just make accurate shooting easier and more consistent at longer ranges. YMMV as they say. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 8:04:36 AM EDT
[#5]
If you are starting out, I recommend buying a PSA and spend more trying out various options, triggers, optics a little at a time. Get an idea what fits you and learn to shoot it. An ACOG or Nightforce can easily go on your tier one rifle of the future.
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Posted: 4/30/2020 8:06:14 AM EDT
[#6]
In that price range, KAC SR-15 or LMT MRP.
For the KAC do some research on the E3 bolt and Mod 2 gas system. Actual product improvements. MRP can be had with their E-Bolt which from all reports and testing I’ve seen, is on par with KAC. I have one in one of my guns but it’s not anywhere near the round count needed to test its longevity. Both come with fully ambi lowers and 2 stage triggers from the factory, as well as being FF’d. KAC comes with their suppressor mount and irons, which can be removed and sold if you don’t need/want them. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 9:03:11 AM EDT
[#7]
Is this 2 Grand with optics or without?
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Posted: 4/30/2020 9:24:29 AM EDT
[#8]
For an AR that's going to be the one and only...or primary to fill numerous roles, I'd go (in this order):
Knights Armament LMT Daniel Defense Also to be considered: LaRue Tactical LWRC BCM |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 9:39:24 AM EDT
[#9]
Rifle
Red dot Light Sling Mags Ammo Training ^one complete weapon system. We’ve reached a point in the AR world where individual components are better than the sum of their parts. You can build a top-performance AR with better specs than a factory rifle, and save money doing it. On a $2,000 budget, you can buy premium-everything and still have enough left over for sling, optic, light, and mags/ammo. Many new shooters tend to overbuy on the gun, then settle for less on the other parts. For instance, if you buy a $2,500 KAC, are you in a position to buy another $1-2k on accessories to get the most from it? Aimpoint RDS, quality LPVO, Surefire, etc. My recommendation is going 50/50 or 2/3 on the rifle, then the rest on accessories (especially optics) of equal quality. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 10:56:35 AM EDT
[#10]
My lwrc di molk version has been very reliable approximately 5k fired not one problem.
Its more accurate than most shooters including myself. For the $1200 i paid don't think i could have gotten a better rifle. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 11:03:17 AM EDT
[#11]
My lwrc di molk version has been very reliable approximately 5k fired not one problem.
Its more accurate than most shooters including myself. For the $1200 i paid don't think i could have gotten a better rifle. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 11:05:02 AM EDT
[#12]
OOPS!!!!
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Posted: 4/30/2020 11:51:11 AM EDT
[#13]
You can save around a G and get a SOLGW, BCM, Sionics or DD if you really need to spend more money and have a great rifle and still have some money left over for an optic, some ammo or hell even another gun. I dont understand how there are so many people that think you need to spend 2 or 3 G to get a good AR.
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Posted: 4/30/2020 12:24:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lok993: You can save around a G and get a SOLGW, BCM, Sionics or DD if you really need to spend more money and have a great rifle and still have some money left over for an optic, some ammo or hell even another gun. I dont understand how there are so many people that think you need to spend 2 or 3 G to get a good AR. Kinda wondering myself what you really get when you spend much more than around 1,500 Myself you can get really good rifle in that range. Maybe fit and finish if you're into that? |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 12:57:54 PM EDT
[#15]
SMITH AND WESSON M&P-15 SPORT II 5.56 / .223 REM 16" BARREL
then buy a quality AIMPOINT or 1-4x burris with an ADM or LARUE mount spend the rest in good ammo and training . |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 1:35:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Derek45: SMITH AND WESSON M&P-15 SPORT II 5.56 / .223 REM 16" BARREL then buy a quality AIMPOINT or 1-4x burris with an ADM or LARUE mount spend the rest in good ammo and training . Best advice ever. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 2:06:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Dont know, its been a while since ive shopped for a complete rifle but ive handled some bcms and DDs and the fit and finish was excellent. Im not really sure how much better it can get. Im sure something like a kac or lnt is probably better than a bcm but is it a grand better? Especially for the average shooter? I would have absolute confidence running either in a course, using it for sd or even taking it to war. I mean hell my 6920 save for the barrel and a couple fcg parts is the exact same gun used by marines and that cost me 800 bucks.
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Posted: 4/30/2020 2:17:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lok993: Dont know, its been a while since ive shopped for a complete rifle but ive handled some bcms and DDs and the fit and finish was excellent. Im not really sure how much better it can get. Im sure something like a kac or lnt is probably better than a bcm but is it a grand better? Especially for the average shooter? I would have absolute confidence running either in a course, using it for sd or even taking it to war. I mean hell my 6920 save for the barrel and a couple fcg parts is the exact same gun used by marines and that cost me 800 bucks. It’s all about what features you want. That BCM or 6920 is coming with a lot less features than a KAC or top tier LMT. Not saying everyone necessarily needs or wants those features, but you’ll end up spending as much or more of the price difference if you do. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 2:31:04 PM EDT
[#19]
What features exactly? I want to know honestly not being a dick. Yes a 6920 is basic but for 12 to 1500, at least you used to be able to get, a bcm with a ff railed handguard, decent grip, stock, maybe a decent trigger. I know you can get all that with a SOLGW or sionics.
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Posted: 4/30/2020 2:35:34 PM EDT
[#20]
This is honestly all you need. Larue... This will be the most accurate.
Go ahead and look at the ar15.com MOA All Day Challenge. Larue Barrels hands down. Haters might say otherwise, but the proof is right there in the challenge. https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper-kit/" target="_blank">https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper-kit/ |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 2:42:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lok993: What features exactly? I want to know honestly not being a dick. Yes a 6920 is basic but for 12 to 1500, at least you used to be able to get, a bcm with a ff railed handguard, decent grip, stock, maybe a decent trigger. I know you can get all that with a SOLGW or sionics. 2 stage trigger E3 or E-Bolt Fully ambi lower Mod 2 gas system/proprietary gas system length, suppressor mount, BUIS (KAC) Monolithic upper (LMT) It’s also kind of hard to beat the URX 4 for rigidity/robustness, outside of going with a mono upper. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 2:46:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Berger24: This is honestly all you need. Larue... This will be the most accurate. Go ahead and look at the ar15.com MOA All Day Challenge. Larue Barrels hands down. Haters might say otherwise, but the proof is right there in the challenge. https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper-kit/" target="_blank">https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper-kit/ Not saying Larue isn’t a quality manufacturer, but there have been more than enough “questions” as to the validity of that thread, especially after multiple people refused to recreate their results with independent witnesses present. I can personally vouch that Larue makes good mid priced precision barrels, but I’d take that thread with a few grains of salt. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 3:11:12 PM EDT
[#23]
In that price range I would suggest the following.
Top tier for a factory gun Engineered to be some of the most reliable and durable rifles on the planet. KAC SR15 LMT MRP Tier 2 Very nice guns build close to the TDP or quality components Daniel defense Geiselle Colt Tier 3 Budget brands, which have varying levels of quality control and may or may not work out of the box but for the most part are functional Psa |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 4:24:31 PM EDT
[#24]
There is another thread on here where people buy boutique guns and then end up cheaping out on the components that you would need in the event things go sideways. The gist of it is that you might be better off buying a less expensive rifle and better quality accesories.
At the bare minimum for a goto weapon, you'll want a Trijicon, or an Aimpoint, due to reliability and weight. RDS are better and faster in CQB than any of the other optic types, save for Eotech, but their battery life and sometimes their reliability come into question. Add to that a 3x magnifier and some quality BUIS. For flashlights, most here will recommend surefire, for the reliability in SHTF situations. In order to outfit a rifle with a good surefire light, and the remote switch, you're probably in about the 500 dollar range. So, 6 to 900 for the sight, up to about 1200 dollars for the sight, magnifier, and about 1-200 dollars for the BUIS. Around 500 dollars for the flashlight and remote switch. Around 100 dollars for a quality sling. So, figure at the bare minimum 1400 dollars for the optics, light, and sling. You are probably also going to want to change out the stock, and grip, and add a handstop. That leaves about 1000 dollars for the weapon itself. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-14-7-mid-lenght-premium-5-56-nato-1-7-13-5-m-lok-pinned-welded.html https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-ept-magpul-ctr-edition-black-no-magazine-5165447862.html Add to that a good ambi charging handle and something like a Bravo BCG and you're in the range with a pretty good rifle. If I could, I would say get a Colt, but right now, they're extremely hard to find. If you do ever decide to upgrade the rifle, the accesories are easy enough to move to your primary. For fun guns, you can do anything you want, but your primary rifle should be GTG. ETA  PSA 14.5 CHF Range & Accuracy Test! Very Surprising |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 6:17:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Colt, Daniel Defense, or FN. All 3 have or have had government contracts and have been audited to make sure they aren't skipping critcal processes.
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Posted: 4/30/2020 6:59:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21: Not saying Larue isn’t a quality manufacturer, but there have been more than enough “questions” as to the validity of that thread, especially after multiple people refused to recreate their results with independent witnesses present. I can personally vouch that Larue makes good mid priced precision barrels, but I’d take that thread with a few grains of salt. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21: Originally Posted By Berger24: This is honestly all you need. Larue... This will be the most accurate. Go ahead and look at the ar15.com MOA All Day Challenge. Larue Barrels hands down. Haters might say otherwise, but the proof is right there in the challenge. https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper-kit/" target="_blank">https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper-kit/ Not saying Larue isn’t a quality manufacturer, but there have been more than enough “questions” as to the validity of that thread, especially after multiple people refused to recreate their results with independent witnesses present. I can personally vouch that Larue makes good mid priced precision barrels, but I’d take that thread with a few grains of salt. I'm not basing that off the thread. I have rifles in 4 different calibers from them and would be more than happy to show you some all-day MOA's when the weather gets better. Also, the *independent* witness is kind of weird. I don't know anyone else personally on ARF.com. So that being said, I submit an MOA all-day that is legit, someone calls me out saying it's not because they don't like Larue or they simply just don't believe it and now what? Now what am I supposed to do...? See an issue with that statement? Just tell one of my range buddies to sign up for an account go to a thread he could give two shits about, validate I did, in fact, shoot that legit? Then you'll have the same people questioning my initial MOA all-day submission saying he's a good buddy of mine or he got paid off with a no-look dry handjob or something ridiculous... |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 7:01:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Here's a 300blk Larue Stealth shooting some Barnes. Clearly different rifles like to run different ammo than others, but this is just over the counter hunting ammo.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 8:37:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Spikes Tactical
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Posted: 4/30/2020 8:58:39 PM EDT
[#29]
LMT
They make a very high quality rifle. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 9:16:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Berger24: I'm not basing that off the thread. I have rifles in 4 different calibers from them and would be more than happy to show you some all-day MOA's when the weather gets better. Also, the *independent* witness is kind of weird. I don't know anyone else personally on ARF.com. So that being said, I submit an MOA all-day that is legit, someone calls me out saying it's not because they don't like Larue or they simply just don't believe it and now what? Now what am I supposed to do...? See an issue with that statement? Just tell one of my range buddies to sign up for an account go to a thread he could give two shits about, validate I did, in fact, shoot that legit? Then you'll have the same people questioning my initial MOA all-day submission saying he's a good buddy of mine or he got paid off with a no-look dry handjob or something ridiculous... Yeah Larue rifles have some valid criticisms but accuracy is never seriously one of them. Suckers can SHOOT, that’s for sure. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 9:51:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Kac sr15 mod 2.
I also have a real DD m4a1 with a risii, some nice urgi builds. The kac wins hands down. People who shoot it say they have never shot anything like it. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 11:26:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Never understood the appeal to something like KAC. Upgrades don't seem worth the money, unless of course money is no object. OP spend 1,000 on your gun and 2000 on optics (think razor gen III) and accessories. You'll be a lot better off
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Posted: 4/30/2020 11:48:09 PM EDT
[#33]
KAC SR-15 Mod2 and a quality optic (a Trijicon ACOG will do). Then mags, ammo, and a weapon light and good sling. After that and some ammo buy a second rifle...say a Colt LE6920 or a BCM as a backup gun. Then you’re set.
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Posted: 4/30/2020 11:52:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OhioRangeTime: Never understood the appeal to something like KAC. Upgrades don't seem worth the money, unless of course money is no object. OP spend 1,000 on your gun and 2000 on optics (think razor gen III) and accessories. You'll be a lot better off If you want some of the best that’s where it’s at. Their R&D and engineering goes beyond slapping a finish on a BCG and calling it earth shattering. That said, most folks would be served just fine with a 6920, 6720, or DD. |
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Posted: 5/1/2020 1:24:03 AM EDT
[#35]
Without. I want a reliable gun but have no clue. I also don't want to really buy a lot of guns and would rather have one or two that I can trust to be reliable. I am a big believer in buy once, cry once and would rather buy a nice one from the start. I asked a friend who is into AR15s what he would recommend and those were the ones he suggested off of the top of his head. He also said that AR15.com is a great place to get more information and advice.
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Posted: 5/1/2020 1:28:16 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By leftytheking: Rifle Red dot Light Sling Mags Ammo Training ^one complete weapon system. We’ve reached a point in the AR world where individual components are better than the sum of their parts. You can build a top-performance AR with better specs than a factory rifle, and save money doing it. On a $2,000 budget, you can buy premium-everything and still have enough left over for sling, optic, light, and mags/ammo. Many new shooters tend to overbuy on the gun, then settle for less on the other parts. For instance, if you buy a $2,500 KAC, are you in a position to buy another $1-2k on accessories to get the most from it? Aimpoint RDS, quality LPVO, Surefire, etc. My recommendation is going 50/50 or 2/3 on the rifle, then the rest on accessories (especially optics) of equal quality. As far as training goes, I found a few excellent trainers in this area. |
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Posted: 5/1/2020 1:31:56 AM EDT
[#37]
IWI Zion 15. Bang for buck.
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Posted: 5/1/2020 1:35:31 AM EDT
[#38]
As stated above. Top tier is Knights Armament for sure. Best bang for your buck is the LWRC DI. Has one of the best true ambi lowers and nice upgrades. Will most likely out live you.
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Posted: 5/1/2020 1:38:10 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brokencilence: I’d suggest looking into a lmt mrp. You can swap barrels in a minute and it’s a solid proven rifle. This I think I’d go with LMT MLR or Colt. Personally KAC is overpriced and overrated lots of fan boys here. |
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Posted: 5/1/2020 1:54:43 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21: It’s all about what features you want. That BCM or 6920 is coming with a lot less features than a KAC or top tier LMT. Not saying everyone necessarily needs or wants those features, but you’ll end up spending as much or more of the price difference if you do. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21: Originally Posted By lok993: Dont know, its been a while since ive shopped for a complete rifle but ive handled some bcms and DDs and the fit and finish was excellent. Im not really sure how much better it can get. Im sure something like a kac or lnt is probably better than a bcm but is it a grand better? Especially for the average shooter? I would have absolute confidence running either in a course, using it for sd or even taking it to war. I mean hell my 6920 save for the barrel and a couple fcg parts is the exact same gun used by marines and that cost me 800 bucks. It’s all about what features you want. That BCM or 6920 is coming with a lot less features than a KAC or top tier LMT. Not saying everyone necessarily needs or wants those features, but you’ll end up spending as much or more of the price difference if you do. As far as features that I want. I think I need more education on the ones available. I live in the Denver metro area so I am in a rather urban environment and I maybe moving to the Seattle metro area in a year or two depending upon work. I want this gun to be for use in an urban area rather than in a rural area. It will be my SHTF gun which is why I want it to be reliable and able to be used in a city and suburban environment as well as to a few hundred yards if capable. Since it is for SHTF and the collapse of decent society I would like it to be in .556/.223 as I expect that to be more commonly used here in the USA. My sidearm and the gun I use for work is a Glock 17 or 19 depending on what I am expected to do that day meaning if I will be driving amd want a shorter grip as it is easier to sit in a truck. My thoughts are that I want a common caliber and something that is appropriate for the local area. |
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Posted: 5/1/2020 4:41:45 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wingsnthings: If you are starting out, I recommend buying a PSA and spend more trying out various options, triggers, optics a little at a time. Get an idea what fits you and learn to shoot it. An ACOG or Nightforce can easily go on your tier one rifle of the future. That’s what I did on my first. Got a kit from PSA and put it together myself. It will not be your last. |
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Posted: 5/1/2020 12:09:12 PM EDT
[#42]
just got a Centurion Arms upper last week, After seeing it I think I will be trying one of their complete rifles out.
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Posted: 5/2/2020 7:52:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cyberpunk1981: I live in the Denver metro area so I am in a rather urban environment and I maybe moving to the Seattle metro area in a year or two depending upon work. Just make sure you buy it before you make the move to Seattle. Keep an eye on the WA gun laws, they truly suck. |
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Posted: 5/2/2020 12:26:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Depending on what features you want in a rifle - ie, what stock, hand guard, what barrel length, and what gas system length (or piston?) - you may be better off building one up to fit your desires than buying a high end rifle and then changing stock, grip, and hand guard.
I got into ARs when prices bottomed out after Trump got elected. Before that, my EBR needs were filled with a FAL. But at sub-$400 I couldn't really resist... What I would do with that budget - 1 - Build up a good lower. I prefer a fixed stock (A2 or Ace ARFX). Good/great trigger. Quality LPK. Should end up about $500ish at most. Don't be afraid to spend $ for quality here, the lower is "the gun" as far as law goes, and you can have many many uppers to go on it (although I think that a lot of us end up with a near 1:1 lower:upper ratio) 2 - Buy an upper with the features you want from a known-quality vendor 3 - Dozen mags and a case of ammo 4 - Mossberg 500 for in-home defense. 5 - go shoot 300 rounds or so and then decide how your next upper (or upper and lower!) will be configured. |
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Posted: 5/2/2020 4:13:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eye-gor: 4 - Mossberg 500 for in-home defense. Tell us more about this. |
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Posted: 5/2/2020 5:46:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alaska511: Tell us more about this. Just think a shotgun loaded with #00 buck is more appropriate for in-house defense in most circumstances. And if I were to grab an AR for home defense, it would be a PCC. But that is just me. |
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Posted: 5/3/2020 9:47:45 PM EDT
[#47]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 5/3/2020 10:01:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SimplyTriggers: One of the first things you are going to want to do to help with your accuracy is upgrade from the standard mil-spec trigger that most AR's come to a drop-in trigger like the Velocity AR Drop-in Trigger.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/3/2020 11:49:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the first things you are going to want to do to help with your accuracy is upgrade from the standard mil-spec trigger that most AR's come with to a drop-in trigger like the Velocity AR Drop-in Trigger.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/4/2020 7:23:49 PM EDT
[#50]
11.5" BCM ELW pistol with sba3 brace. better yet, order the upper and build up your favorite lower with a Geissele SSA-E, Larue MBT-2S or SSP trigger if you want single.
if youre not looking for the best value, just get a KAC SR-15 upper and a LMT lower and you can stop thinking about it. id go 11.5" for red dot or 14.5" with LPVO. |
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