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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:33:59 AM EDT
[#1]
Pmags dont work in all lowers.
Apparently they crack at the spine (I've never had this happen) I've been told the polymer will age and become more brittle. Also not something I've spent much time thinking about. I've had two high end lowers not fit Pmags well. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:35:56 AM EDT
[#2]
USGI mags can be loaded and the feed lips won't spread out. They drop free better. They fit in mag pouches better. Of course the P-mags are excellent as well. I have both and like both for different reasons. There's no perfect magazine out there. I also like the Lancer mags a lot as well. Collect them all, ha
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:42:05 AM EDT
[#3]
I ONLY run Okay Industries magazines. Their new E2 magazines have a anti-tilt follower.
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Posted: 12/14/2018 12:45:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Started out with couple dozen PMags.
Bought a couple dozen D&H aluminum with magpul followers from bcm and psa after sandy hook because they were 9.99 = "cheap" at the time. Now that I've got a little stockpile, for the last few years I've been only buying Lancers. Never had a problem with pmag cracking or anything, only thing I didn't like about the D&H was I had to download to 28 to seat effortlessly on a closed bolt and with 300blk had the bullets pinched too tight to the rib. I just like the quality feel and design of the Lancers over pmag, and ease of loading 30 over the Aluminum |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 1:58:47 AM EDT
[#5]
Have a large mag stash of Troy & MagPul poly mags, and USGI aluminum mags O.K.s with MagPul 3rd gen followers.
What I like about the metal mags is if kept loaded for extended periods, you don't have to worry about feedlips spreading or deforming, especially if in storage in hot temperatures in Texas summer. They drop free easy, they are reasonably rugged, they fit any AR magazine carrier (of which more than a few don't fit P-mags or Troys well due to the difference in size). |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 6:42:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Buy both.
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:02:23 AM EDT
[#7]
I don't own a mag that's not a Pmag Gen M3 and won't until something better comes along. And a old school g.i. mag ain't gonna be the something better.
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:23:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Lancer AWM's are another good alternative (steel feed lips).
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Posted: 12/14/2018 11:27:55 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Buy both. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 2:01:41 PM EDT
[#10]
I've had the same issue as Piledriver with D&H mags not wanting to seat unless downloaded. I've not had that problem from an actual usgi supplier like Okay/Center, they'll take a tap but not need to be hammered in like a D&H. I've never had an issue with Pmags seating.
I just prefer how usgi mags look, they're a proven standard and as mentioned earlier they fit alot of gear better. I have Pmags and they are splendid, durable products, I imagine they will replace aluminum mags throughout the military at some point and become the new standard. This summer at a gun show I scored ten new tan-follower Okay magazines for $7ea. They also stack better than pmags. :3 |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 5:19:51 AM EDT
[#11]
I dropped a loaded USGI mag on the feed lips and it was fucked forever. Could never trust it again. Pmag or Lancer would have been unaffected. But damage aside, good Al mags like Surefeed do feed better, insert and drop free better, store better in pouches, and you can fit more into a Fat 50 ammo can. So for a home defense weapon, where rifle stays still until retrieved, I use a Surefeed E2. But if I'm out in the field or taking a class where things get dropped hard and stepped on or bumped into, I'll use Pmags or Lancers.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 5:49:54 AM EDT
[#12]
seen to many pmags split in the sandbox. my gi mags have never once not worked. ive got some gi mags that's been loaded since 1993 and the feed lips are still perfect.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 5:57:18 AM EDT
[#13]
So this is the reason for the P-Mag covers that put some tension on the loaded rounds - keep the feed lips from spreading? I have exactly one 20 round P-Mag with cover.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 10:35:03 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So this is the reason for the P-Mag covers that put some tension on the loaded rounds - keep the feed lips from spreading? I have exactly one 20 round P-Mag with cover. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 11:33:50 AM EDT
[#15]
For the love of freedom, could we get a pinned “PMAG vs. USGI” thread?? This is the number one discussion topic in this sub forum. I swear it comes up once a month.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 4:12:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Sometimes more often than that, I’ve seen two threads on the same page before.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 9:40:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Buy both. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 1:24:01 PM EDT
[#18]
I have no problem with Pmags going in or dropping free. Never had a feed issue. In my 1 AR. USGI fitting in mag pouches and long term storage may make me pick some up though.
I have just never been the type to buy tons of types of anything if I know something that works for me. I found the guitar strings I like I just buy them, etc, etc. But I do realize that improvements get made and that there may be things out there that I would like better and just haven't tried yet. I will pick up a couple of Okay and see how I like them. |
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Posted: 12/18/2018 2:14:50 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 12/18/2018 5:13:46 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've had the same issue as Piledriver with D&H mags not wanting to seat unless downloaded. I've not had that problem from an actual usgi supplier like Okay/Center, they'll take a tap but not need to be hammered in like a D&H. I've never had an issue with Pmags seating. ... |
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Posted: 12/18/2018 10:23:42 AM EDT
[#21]
I don't know why people think aluminum feed lips won't creep.
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Posted: 12/18/2018 10:26:14 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought D&H (formerly Labelle) was an actual USGI mag supplier? |
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Posted: 12/18/2018 10:40:34 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lancer AWM's are another good alternative (steel feed lips). Tactical use; Surefeed E2 > Surefeeds > PMAG M3 Competition; D60 > PMAG M3 w/taran basepad Surefeeds and PMAGs are both solid. Surefeeds are a bit more stout and have a higher longevity. |
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Posted: 12/18/2018 11:58:15 AM EDT
[#24]
Metal feedlips get bent/damaged, metal mags get dented. Gen 3 Pmags are leaps and bounds stronger than the old gen 1 and even gen 2. If you want the ultimate in mag durability and function, join the STANAG master race. The lack of pigment in albino mags makes the polymer even stronger. True story.
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Posted: 12/18/2018 1:55:39 PM EDT
[#25]
And metal magazines for the M-16 have an almost 60 year track record with many STILL in service!
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Posted: 12/26/2018 3:02:37 PM EDT
[#26]
I have 2 ar15's, a nodakspud ar18s lower that uses a ar180b upper, and the original ar180b polymer lower. The 2 ar15's use all the mags just just fine, but the del-ton lower has a tighter mag well and the 20 round gen 3 pmags are a little sticky in the mag well and do not always drop free when empty. The 18s and 180b mag well is tight with all the pmags and none of them will drop free when they are empty. Also the 18s/180b with gen 3 pmags occasionally get a failure to feed where the bolt does not completely close so the rifle just goes click. The E2 Surefeeds work perfectly on all our rifles, esp. the finicky 18s/180b. I just wish there were more critical parts available for the 18s/180b as I prefer it to the 15's we have. But there is no way to get these, and my wife prefers her pencil barreled 16" middy gassed 15, so all magazines need to work in all our rifles.
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Posted: 12/26/2018 7:37:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've had the same issue as Piledriver with D&H mags not wanting to seat unless downloaded. I've not had that problem from an actual usgi supplier like Okay/Center, they'll take a tap but not need to be hammered in like a D&H. I've never had an issue with Pmags seating. I just prefer how usgi mags look, they're a proven standard and as mentioned earlier they fit alot of gear better. I have Pmags and they are splendid, durable products, I imagine they will replace aluminum mags throughout the military at some point and become the new standard. This summer at a gun show I scored ten new tan-follower Okay magazines for $7ea. They also stack better than pmags. :3 I sent my brother a bunch of D&H mags for his birthday and he called me up saying they were junk and wouldn't lock on a closed bolt. That is a very odd thing since I've owned AR's for over 20 years now and I've never had this issue happen with USGI mags, EVER. I began to trouble shoot the issue with him over the phone and 1 of the questions I asked him was are you sure there are 30 rds in the magazine to which he relied that he was sure of it. To make a long story short after over an hour of troubleshooting the rifle and coming to the conclusion that we'd send his rifle (also a gift) back for warranty work he later called me back to tell me that he'd actually been loading 31 rds into his 30 rd D&H magazines. Problem solved. USGI mags should lock on a closed bolt. My D&H have been flawless and so have all the other USGI or Magpul magazines I have. The internet tends to over dramatize things and there are a lot of "If you don't have brand XYZ mags your rifle won't function!" I buy whatever brand that's reputable (especially USGI) mags for the cheapest price or deals too good to pass up. For me I've found that is often D&H. YMMV |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 9:01:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Except that D&H aren’t “U.S. GI”
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Posted: 12/26/2018 9:36:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except that D&H aren’t “U.S. GI” I hope someday soon they make a fleshlight so you can satisfy that love for them. Give it a rest already 
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Posted: 12/26/2018 9:54:26 PM EDT
[#30]
I have plenty of D&H mags that are a bitch to seat loaded to 30 rounds on a closed bolt.
Love the Okay Surefeed mags, and Lancer, and Magpul gen 2 and 3 mags. But I doubt I'll buy any more D&H mags. |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 10:00:47 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not accusing you of anything but this is a common theme with USGI mags (insert whatever brand). There is no reason a USGI mag shouldn't seat on a closed bolt unless you have an odd rifle or BCG in it. I sent my brother a bunch of D&H mags for his birthday and he called me up saying they were junk and wouldn't lock on a closed bolt. That is a very odd thing since I've owned AR's for over 20 years now and I've never had this issue happen with USGI mags, EVER. I began to trouble shoot the issue with him over the phone and 1 of the questions I asked him was are you sure there are 30 rds in the magazine to which he relied that he was sure of it. To make a long story short after over an hour of troubleshooting the rifle and coming to the conclusion that we'd send his rifle (also a gift) back for warranty work he later called me back to tell me that he'd actually been loading 31 rds into his 30 rd D&H magazines. Problem solved. USGI mags should lock on a closed bolt. My D&H have been flawless and so have all the other USGI or Magpul magazines I have. The internet tends to over dramatize things and there are a lot of "If you don't have brand XYZ mags your rifle won't function!" I buy whatever brand that's reputable (especially USGI) mags for the cheapest price or deals too good to pass up. For me I've found that is often D&H. YMMV Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've had the same issue as Piledriver with D&H mags not wanting to seat unless downloaded. I've not had that problem from an actual usgi supplier like Okay/Center, they'll take a tap but not need to be hammered in like a D&H. I've never had an issue with Pmags seating. I just prefer how usgi mags look, they're a proven standard and as mentioned earlier they fit alot of gear better. I have Pmags and they are splendid, durable products, I imagine they will replace aluminum mags throughout the military at some point and become the new standard. This summer at a gun show I scored ten new tan-follower Okay magazines for $7ea. They also stack better than pmags. :3 I sent my brother a bunch of D&H mags for his birthday and he called me up saying they were junk and wouldn't lock on a closed bolt. That is a very odd thing since I've owned AR's for over 20 years now and I've never had this issue happen with USGI mags, EVER. I began to trouble shoot the issue with him over the phone and 1 of the questions I asked him was are you sure there are 30 rds in the magazine to which he relied that he was sure of it. To make a long story short after over an hour of troubleshooting the rifle and coming to the conclusion that we'd send his rifle (also a gift) back for warranty work he later called me back to tell me that he'd actually been loading 31 rds into his 30 rd D&H magazines. Problem solved. USGI mags should lock on a closed bolt. My D&H have been flawless and so have all the other USGI or Magpul magazines I have. The internet tends to over dramatize things and there are a lot of "If you don't have brand XYZ mags your rifle won't function!" I buy whatever brand that's reputable (especially USGI) mags for the cheapest price or deals too good to pass up. For me I've found that is often D&H. YMMV It takes some of the speed off a reload, and I lose confidence. I download them to 28 and they glide right in. Could be my mag catches, bcg's, tan followers fault etc. But with Lancers or Pmags (only tried gen1 or 2), very little effort will seat a 30 and I know its locked everytime without having to double check. |
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Posted: 12/31/2018 12:51:49 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except that D&H aren’t “U.S. GI” |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 1:28:15 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holy shit dude, I think this entire site knows the hardon you have for Okay mags. It's not like we have a choice but to know your opinion. I hope someday soon they make a fleshlight so you can satisfy that love for them. Give it a rest already |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 1:34:25 AM EDT
[#34]
GENM3 MCT WINDOWED PMAGS ARE USGI!!!
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Posted: 1/4/2019 8:07:15 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GENM3 MCT WINDOWED PMAGS ARE USGI!!! |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 10:33:11 AM EDT
[#36]
Since we are comparing Magpul to USGI, does anyone know the exact statistics on the difference in reliability between the mags; the times the military did the testing?
MTTF etc?... |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 10:59:17 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Metal feedlips get bent/damaged, metal mags get dented. Gen 3 Pmags are leaps and bounds stronger than the old gen 1 and even gen 2. If you want the ultimate in mag durability and function, join the STANAG master race. The lack of pigment in albino mags makes the polymer even stronger. True story. |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 12:25:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since we are comparing Magpul to USGI, does anyone know the exact statistics on the difference in reliability between the mags; the times the military did the testing? MTTF etc?... There should be a pdf file in there. FWIW, vendors were given codes, so manufacturer names are not listed. Magpul is the only one whose code has been verified, AFAIK. |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 12:39:44 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LINK TO INFO There should be a pdf file in there. FWIW, vendors were given codes, so manufacturer names are not listed. Magpul is the only one whose code has been verified, AFAIK. |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 12:52:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That test also showed then tan follower USGI mag to only be slightly behind the M3 Pmags in stoppages with the M855A1 ammo (normal ammo would have less of a difference) and in fact, it bested the Pmag in one of the tests. So statistically speaking, there is no real world reliability difference between the two of them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
LINK TO INFO There should be a pdf file in there. FWIW, vendors were given codes, so manufacturer names are not listed. Magpul is the only one whose code has been verified, AFAIK. Guys can read it and decide how they like. I could care less. I've got my shit squared away as far as mags go. |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 5:27:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Maybe this should become a tacked thread since the topic comes up so often.
OP, I don't think a mix of quality mags is a bad thing. GI aluminum mags have been around a long time and have been product improved over the years. They do wear out but they are a consumable item. I have some 50yo 20 rounders that still work fine on semi-auto but not so good on FA. I'm guessing the springs are worn out. I've got a ton of mags from a number of makers, including some old Sterling 40 rounders and even an MWG 90 rounder. They all work and the ones that don't get tossed. |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 6:03:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LINK TO INFO There should be a pdf file in there. FWIW, vendors were given codes, so manufacturer names are not listed. Magpul is the only one whose code has been verified, AFAIK. |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 6:24:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really appreciate it however I can't find the PDF of the report. I have it downloaded. Email me and I'll shoot it to you. |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 7:35:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Will do. Thanks.
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Posted: 1/4/2019 7:40:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Will do. Thanks. Returned your email. |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 7:51:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Italianstallion Returned your email. Thanks |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 8:06:43 PM EDT
[#47]
Can someone load it up on Imgur and post it here?
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Posted: 1/4/2019 8:14:55 PM EDT
[#48]
I own both . Vast majority are USGI .
I like it like that |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 8:27:43 PM EDT
[#49]
Well OP did you get your USGI type mags yet? I can tell you from experience USGI (which have now changed depending on the branch of military you serve in) work as in the old school, aluminum, dry lube film Okay/Surefeed types. I have used them for decades, prefer them over any other AR/M16 magazine out there. I prefer Okay Surefeeds, followed by the grey D&H aluminum magazines. I have used them with black followers, mint green USGI followers and have since installed magpul anti-tilt followers.
Buy what you like but is there an advantage over one? I say USGI Okay Surefeed because they work and D&H work in my experience and will fit various rifles and fit mag pouches easily without having to worry about magazine well tightness etc. I hope this helps. |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 8:58:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That test also showed then tan follower USGI mag to only be slightly behind the M3 Pmags in stoppages with the M855A1 ammo (normal ammo would have less of a difference) and in fact, it bested the Pmag in one of the tests. So statistically speaking, there is no real world reliability difference between the two of them. |
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