US Army Selects 6.8

AR-15 » Ammunition

AR Sponsor:

Site Notices

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - US Army Selects 6.8 (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 10/9/2018 11:36:06 AM EDT

Sorry if it's a dupe...not sure where it belongs:

From the article:

The U.S. Army's chief of staff said Monday that its 6.8mm, next-generation weapons, slated to replace the M249 squad automatic weapon and the M4A1 carbine, will be able to penetrate any body armor on the battlefield.
"It will fire at speeds that far exceed the velocity of bullets today, and it will penetrate any existing or known ... body armor that's out there," Gen. Mark Milley

Here

SPC was not mentioned, only 6.8 projectile:

... with each offeror developing two weapon variants and a common cartridge for both weapons, utilizing government-provided 6.8 millimeter projectiles,"

Posted: 10/8/2018 8:49:30 PM EDT

[#1]

Lake City is already gearing up for production.

Posted: 10/8/2018 8:52:01 PM EDT

[#2]

the grendel guys heads must be exploding like DU after Kavanaugh was confirmed.

but somehow I don't believe it

Posted: 10/8/2018 8:55:42 PM EDT

[#3]

Didn't read... Caseless ammo?

Eta. It's caseless 6.8. after some Google research. Not traditional ammo.

Posted: 10/8/2018 8:59:28 PM EDT

[#4]

I love my 6.8 rifle but SPC or SPCII wasn’t mentioned anyplace.

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:02:09 PM EDT

[#5]

But but 6.8 is dead.

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:05:06 PM EDT

[#6]

6.8 wylde

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:07:54 PM EDT

[#7]

So is this proof that 5.56 is no longer a good round?

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:08:15 PM EDT

[#8]

I didn't read much into this but wonder if it will be part of the case telescoped ammo. No brass, much lighter.

Trey Knight did just say case telescoped is the way of the future. He may know something.

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:09:26 PM EDT

[#9]

What's it all mean basil ?

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:09:48 PM EDT

[#10]

Didn't read, but based on the similar GD thread, it's not 6.8 SPC OR SPC II.

It's simply the 6.8 bullet, pushed to 3,500fps out of a 16" barrel, from whatever parent case the company submitting the proposal wants to use, while also reducing ammo weight by 20%.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Sig-s-NGSW-AR-and-NGSW-C-entry-for-the-M4A1-M249-replacement-underway-/5-2154023/?r=-1&page=1&anc=74937187#i74937187
@joglee

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:12:48 PM EDT

[#11]

interesting.....how long till the left tries to declare it illegal for civilian use?

Is it more stable than 5.56/.223? how does it do on range?

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:13:40 PM EDT

[#12]

In for 10 years of development just to have the whole program dropped.

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:21:50 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
But but 6.8 is dead.

View Quote

6.8 and your reading conprehension had a murder suicide.

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:22:44 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
In for 10 years of development just to have the whole program dropped.

View Quote

This.

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:26:35 PM EDT

[#15]

It isn't 6.8 spc, and it'll never happen anyway.

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:32:12 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lake City is already gearing up for production.

View Quote

Link to contract?

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:34:23 PM EDT

[#17]

"utilizing government-provided 6.8 millimeter projectiles," according to the solicitation posted on the federal contracting website FedBizzOpps."The weapons include the Next Generation Squad Weapon-Rifle (NGSW-R) and the Next Generation Squad Weapon-Automatic Rifle (NGSW-AR)."

Looks like one has to request the section of the notice that outlines what dimensions XM1186 will have. There is an ammo can spec'ed in attachment 12. DRAFT Potential Opportunity Notice for Next Generation Squad Weapons

Posted: 10/8/2018 9:52:59 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
6.8 and your reading conprehension had a murder suicide.

View Quote

So cute. As I said....6.8. Not SPC. Not SPC II. Just....6.8.

Why? Because unlike the 30 caliber bullets, there is no real "family" of calibers that share the same 270 bullet. Just a few wildcatters that are mostly referred to as dead.

Will they design some new ninja 6.8 caliber with massive case capacity.....and reduce weight at the same time. Probably not. Which is why I wonder if it's part of the case telescoped deal.

Posted: 10/8/2018 10:00:36 PM EDT

[#19]

Not a joglee thread?

Posted: 10/8/2018 10:03:43 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not a joglee thread?

View Quote

That is honestly who I looked for opening this thread.

It also may be the most surprising fact from this thread.

Posted: 10/8/2018 10:07:58 PM EDT

[#21]

Interesting. I would like to meet someone happy he was shot with a 5.56

Posted: 10/8/2018 10:40:27 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
Interesting. I would like to meet someone happy he was shot with a 5.56

View Quote

The idea is to push out the next weapon’s effective range beyond 300 meters, where as I’m sure you know, 5.56 doesn’t have great terminal ballistics.

Note also that the solicitation specifically says “rifle,” not carbine. The Chief wants a rifle.

Posted: 10/8/2018 11:00:34 PM EDT

[#23]

What half the people in this thread think the next gen ammo is:

Vs.

What the Army really wants:

Reading comprehension folks.

Posted: 10/8/2018 11:17:04 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

The idea is to push out the next weapon’s effective range beyond 300 meters, where as I’m sure you know, 5.56 doesn’t have great terminal ballistics.

Note also that the solicitation specifically says “rifle,” not carbine. The Chief wants a rifle.

View Quote

Maybe, but I really like that 77gr though, superior to even the Russian 545.

Posted: 10/8/2018 11:23:53 PM EDT

[#25]

I remember reading articles in gun mags back in the 80's about HK experimenting with caseless ammo. Their version was little rectangular blocks of propellent with a bullet stuck in the middle. Can't remember how it was ignited though. Awesome idea if any company can actually get it to work. Might be the next big evolution in firearms/ammo.

Posted: 10/9/2018 12:00:04 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
The idea is to push out the next weapon’s effective range beyond 300 meters, where as I’m sure you know, 5.56 doesn’t have great terminal ballistics.

Note also that the solicitation specifically says “rifle,” not carbine. The Chief wants a rifle.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Interesting. I would like to meet someone happy he was shot with a 5.56

The idea is to push out the next weapon’s effective range beyond 300 meters, where as I’m sure you know, 5.56 doesn’t have great terminal ballistics.

Note also that the solicitation specifically says “rifle,” not carbine. The Chief wants a rifle.

Interesting call... when combat gets, close

Posted: 10/9/2018 12:36:43 AM EDT

[#27]

Hell they were experimenting with case less when I went in the Army and they were still experimenting with it when retired, I went in, in 1979 and retired in 2006 and here it is 2018 almost 2019 and they are still experimenting with it, fuk wake me up when something finally comes along besides the experiments!

Posted: 10/9/2018 3:25:25 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
I remember reading articles in gun mags back in the 80's about HK experimenting with caseless ammo. Their version was little rectangular blocks of propellent with a bullet stuck in the middle. Can't remember how it was ignited though. Awesome idea if any company can actually get it to work. Might be the next big evolution in firearms/ammo.

View Quote

Hk G-11. It fired the 4.7mm ceaseless round. An element of the 10th Mountain Division tested them around 1989.

Posted: 10/9/2018 4:57:03 AM EDT

[#29]

This is a good primer on the LSAT program:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/05/08/lsat-6-5mm-plastic-cased-ammo-armys-next-small-arms-program/

Sadly, we are not pursuing the 5.56 LSAT or 6.5 Creedmoor LSAT, but a 6.8 magnum, based on a desire to pierce Level IV armor out to 600m.

Posted: 10/9/2018 5:25:09 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
In for 10 years of development just to have the whole program dropped.

View Quote

Exactly, believe it when I see it

Posted: 10/9/2018 5:27:06 AM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
In for 10 years of development just to have the whole program dropped.

View Quote

This. I'd rather the money go to developing 1.21 gigawatt lasers or Space Force.

Posted: 10/9/2018 6:39:05 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
the grendel guys heads must be exploding like DU after Kavanaugh was confirmed.

but somehow I don't believe it

View Quote

No we aren't.

I have a Grendel for hunting. If the USA goes 6.8. I will get a 6.8 for other needs...

Mags for the Grendel are not P-Mag 5.56 reliable. I would not take a my Grendel into a 2 way range, ever.

Posted: 10/9/2018 6:40:05 AM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
What half the people in this thread think the next gen ammo is:

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Barrett-M468/DSC03098.jpg

Vs.

What the Army really wants:

https://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/caseless-and-cased-telescoped-lightweight-ammunition.jpg

Reading comprehension folks.

View Quote

Bingo.

Posted: 10/9/2018 6:53:42 AM EDT

[#34]

Whhhaaaat? Is caseless ammo finally coming to fruition?

So how bad do we think this will be? Far as failures to feed, exploded weapons, polymer cases melting and jamming a hot gun that had a cartridge sit in the chamber to long?

And, how long after Uncle sam starts to field it before we peasants can acquire the ammunition and rifles chambered in it? 2 years, 4 years? Never?

Sooo does this mean all the M855A1 surplus will get dumped on the market?

(I kid, I kid)

Posted: 10/9/2018 7:46:52 AM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:

No we aren't.

I have a Grendel for hunting. If the USA goes 6.8. I will get a 6.8 for other needs...

Mags for the Grendel are not P-Mag 5.56 reliable. I would not take a my Grendel into a 2 way range, ever.

View Quote

My grendel is very reliable with my old CP 6.8SPC mags

Posted: 10/9/2018 7:48:16 AM EDT

[#36]

How am I gonna run this goofy stuff thru my DILLON650 ?

Posted: 10/9/2018 8:39:59 AM EDT

[#37]

I am more worried about the stuff near open flames, sparks, blasts, etc. like shit in in a combat zone.

Anyone whose ever burned off excess mortar round increments may have similar concerns. Cheese is hot yo.

Posted: 10/9/2018 8:49:21 AM EDT

[#38]

Well I did see my first army issued Sig 320(?)last night,

i thought it would be years...

Posted: 10/9/2018 9:21:53 AM EDT

[#39]

http://soldiersystems.net/2018/10/08/ausa-18-sig-sauer-unveils-belt-fed-machine-gun-carbine-and-hybrid-ammunition-next-generation-squad-weapon-candidates/

Posted: 10/9/2018 9:55:10 AM EDT

[#40]

All your ammo forts are belong to us.

Posted: 10/9/2018 10:01:54 AM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
So is this proof that 5.56 is no longer a good round?

View Quote

Is the m17 proof that the M9 is not a good handgun?

Posted: 10/9/2018 10:03:18 AM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:

So cute. As I said....6.8. Not SPC. Not SPC II. Just....6.8.

Why? Because unlike the 30 caliber bullets, there is no real "family" of calibers that share the same 270 bullet. Just a few wildcatters that are mostly referred to as dead.

Will they design some new ninja 6.8 caliber with massive case capacity.....and reduce weight at the same time. Probably not. Which is why I wonder if it's part of the case telescoped deal.

View Quote

Maybe a new type of propellant?

Posted: 10/9/2018 10:19:33 AM EDT

[#43]

I was told by a Lake City employee that’s is going to be a plastic case with a brass base similar to this....

Posted: 10/9/2018 10:21:28 AM EDT

[#44]

Neat. But, Im seeing the land warrior & SPC type deal... They will fiddle & drop some bucks, but just another "program"

Posted: 10/9/2018 10:23:21 AM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
I was told by a Lake City employee that’s is going to be a plastic case with a brass base similar to this....

https://i.imgur.com/kXPsYh7.jpg

View Quote

What happens to the plastic case? What kind of plastic dosent goo stuff up...

Posted: 10/9/2018 10:31:10 AM EDT

[#46]

So the army has chosen a phantom cartridge from a projectile they made up themselves with requirements that no ammunition currently meets. Pierces body armor at 600m? Huh? So they want a 6.8 cartridge that hits like a .50 BMG? In what world is that feasible?

Posted: 10/9/2018 10:35:10 AM EDT

[#47]

6.5 maybe better ,,,,,

Posted: 10/9/2018 11:16:04 AM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
Hell they were experimenting with case less when I went in the Army and they were still experimenting with it when retired, I went in, in 1979 and retired in 2006 and here it is 2018 almost 2019 and they are still experimenting with it, fuk wake me up when something finally comes along besides the experiments!

View Quote

This isnt caseless