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Posted: 10/4/2018 6:31:24 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Have you guys ever dealt with the 1/16th inch screw in the carry handle having the head rounded out so that it cannot be turned? To me the worst part of the A2 is the A2 length stock. |
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Posted: 10/4/2018 6:58:47 AM EDT
[#2]
The A2 is perfect, as built ftom FN.
Once this M4gery fad is over and people come to their sences-- you'll see... 
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Posted: 10/4/2018 8:16:42 AM EDT
[#3]
I hate the finger ledge
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Posted: 10/4/2018 11:06:57 AM EDT
[#4]
The stock is too long, rear sight too complicated and pistol grip too uncomfortable.
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Posted: 10/4/2018 12:13:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The stock is too long, rear sight too complicated and pistol grip too uncomfortable. |
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Posted: 10/4/2018 12:51:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The stock is too long, rear sight too complicated and pistol grip too uncomfortable. 
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Posted: 10/4/2018 1:51:00 PM EDT
[#7]
The nub on the A2 grip and the length of the stock is an issue, the Colt CS stock should have been the standard.
Also, the A1 profile barrel should not have been messed with. Everything else is pretty much fine with me except for the fact that it's a fixed carry handle upper... I very much prefer ACOGs. 
So I guess I would like the A4 version of this best. |
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Posted: 10/4/2018 1:56:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Left or right, up or down, how much more complicated can ya get!
Still my favorite series of rifles though... |
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Posted: 10/4/2018 2:41:28 PM EDT
[#9]
this is what the A2 should have been
16" medium weight midlength 1/7 barrel A1 sights with A2 aperture A1 length stock of modern material 
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Posted: 10/4/2018 6:32:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this is what the A2 should have been 16" medium weight midlength 1/7 barrel A1 sights with A2 aperture A1 length stock of modern material https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/5205/C7_A1_Midlength_Fixed_stock-690803.jpg |
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Posted: 10/4/2018 6:42:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To me the worst part of the A2 is the A2 length stock. Quote HistoryQuoted:
To me the worst part of the A2 is the A2 length stock. Quoted:
this is what the A2 should have been 16" medium weight midlength 1/7 barrel A1 sights with A2 aperture A1 length stock of modern material https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/5205/C7_A1_Midlength_Fixed_stock-690803.jpg 
My ideal “A2”  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/4/2018 8:21:32 PM EDT
[#12]
The fixed carry handle
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Posted: 10/4/2018 8:40:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The fixed carry handle Boo, I say! Go be flat-topped in the other 87 forums on this site! Boo! |
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Posted: 10/4/2018 8:51:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You could have an A1 style with less than half the parts? The A2 rear sight does so much more than is needed. An A1 rear with a rapidex knob is pretty much my ideal fixed rear sight for an AR. Still my favorite series of rifles though... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Left or right, up or down, how much more complicated can ya get!
Still my favorite series of rifles though... |
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Posted: 10/4/2018 8:59:15 PM EDT
[#15]
The A2 sights are not complicated, I don’t know why people parrot this.
The stock is too long, and the barrel profile sucks. Aside from that, it’s great. |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 12:26:37 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The A2 sights are not complicated, I don’t know why people parrot this. The stock is too long, and the barrel profile sucks. Aside from that, it’s great. |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 1:34:12 AM EDT
[#17]
I'm still wondering how to get that screw out.
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Posted: 10/5/2018 4:08:22 AM EDT
[#18]
I will ask this, who among you have actually carried this weapon in the military and not back and forth to the range?
I'm used to getting weird looks from people when I say I like the M16A2 way better than the M4. I carried the A2 during my first and into my second active duty enlistments and then for the first few weeks of my first Guard mobilization. I carried it through OP Southern Watch and into OIF 1. I like the A2 so much I will have one together once the barrel is done at Retro Arms Works. The wait is killing me. Do you know how fucking hard it is to find an A2 upper and decent hand guards? I like the A2 because I shot way better with it. My groups opened way up when I shot the M4. I watched half my unit UQ the first time we went out with the M4. Our RO's and instructors were pulling their hair out on that one. I qualed but just enough. The M68 took some getting used to. I could hit the green ernie on our pop up range out to 550 meters while on my hind legs with monotinous regularity. Could I do that with my M4? Maybe half the time. I get the, "But, but the M4 is way better for CQB!" Tell that to people who were trained how to use the M16 in CQB. I did building clearing no problem. Mounted ops you say? I could unass humvees and Hiluxes lickity split, no problems. I'm an old fucker by military standards and I miss BDU's, ALICE gear, jungle boots with paracord laces, field jacket liners, PVS-11's, the M-60 GPMG, the green Timex watches and Israeli watch bands, cammy face paint and Saber radios. I don't miss the old Kevlar though. Like anything, know your tools. Would you use a ball peen hammer to drive finishing nails? |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 4:30:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will ask this, who among you have actually carried this weapon in the military and not back and forth to the range? I'm used to getting weird looks from people when I say I like the M16A2 way better than the M4. I carried the A2 during my first and into my second active duty enlistments and then for the first few weeks of my first Guard mobilization. I carried it through OP Southern Watch and into OIF 1. I like the A2 so much I will have one together once the barrel is done at Retro Arms Works. The wait is killing me. Do you know how fucking hard it is to find an A2 upper and decent hand guards? I like the A2 because I shot way better with it. My groups opened way up when I shot the M4. I watched half my unit UQ the first time we went out with the M4. Our RO's and instructors were pulling their hair out on that one. I qualed but just enough. The M68 took some getting used to. I could hit the green ernie on our pop up range out to 550 meters while on my hind legs with monotinous regularity. Could I do that with my M4? Maybe half the time. I get the, "But, but the M4 is way better for CQB!" Tell that to people who were trained how to use the M16 in CQB. I did building clearing no problem. Mounted ops you say? I could unass humvees and Hiluxes lickity split, no problems. I'm an old fucker by military standards and I miss BDU's, ALICE gear, jungle boots with paracord laces, field jacket liners, PVS-11's, the M-60 GPMG, the green Timex watches and Israeli watch bands, cammy face paint and Saber radios. I don't miss the old Kevlar though. Like anything, know your tools. Would you use a ball peen hammer to drive finishing nails? Hope you get your build completed soon and time to enjoy rifle length shooting. Thanks for your service. |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 9:23:44 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm still wondering how to get that screw out. Try this (or any of hundreds of other extractors like it). |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 9:28:35 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will ask this, who among you have actually carried this weapon in the military and not back and forth to the range? I'm used to getting weird looks from people when I say I like the M16A2 way better than the M4. I carried the A2 during my first and into my second active duty enlistments and then for the first few weeks of my first Guard mobilization. I carried it through OP Southern Watch and into OIF 1. I like the A2 so much I will have one together once the barrel is done at Retro Arms Works. The wait is killing me. Do you know how fucking hard it is to find an A2 upper and decent hand guards? I carried lots of different things as weapons, and still do on occasion, but more often than not they're just rifles and pistols. 
2. Not really all that hard at all, actually. Model 1 Sales, Windham Weaponry, Bushmaster, FN, PSA, and Colt (via SAC) all make A2 uppers readily found on the market. Even more places (like green mountain and criterion who make REALLY serious shooters) offer barrels so you can assemble your own. as for the ball peen hammer, you do realize that not only do they come in various sizes, but one side of that hammer head is flat and perfectly suited to driving finishing nails, right? |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 12:21:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will ask this, who among you have actually carried this weapon in the military and not back and forth to the range? I'm used to getting weird looks from people when I say I like the M16A2 way better than the M4. I carried the A2 during my first and into my second active duty enlistments and then for the first few weeks of my first Guard mobilization. I carried it through OP Southern Watch and into OIF 1. I like the A2 so much I will have one together once the barrel is done at Retro Arms Works. The wait is killing me. Do you know how fucking hard it is to find an A2 upper and decent hand guards? I like the A2 because I shot way better with it. My groups opened way up when I shot the M4. I watched half my unit UQ the first time we went out with the M4. Our RO's and instructors were pulling their hair out on that one. I qualed but just enough. The M68 took some getting used to. I could hit the green ernie on our pop up range out to 550 meters while on my hind legs with monotinous regularity. Could I do that with my M4? Maybe half the time. I get the, "But, but the M4 is way better for CQB!" Tell that to people who were trained how to use the M16 in CQB. I did building clearing no problem. Mounted ops you say? I could unass humvees and Hiluxes lickity split, no problems. I'm an old fucker by military standards and I miss BDU's, ALICE gear, jungle boots with paracord laces, field jacket liners, PVS-11's, the M-60 GPMG, the green Timex watches and Israeli watch bands, cammy face paint and Saber radios. I don't miss the old Kevlar though. Like anything, know your tools. Would you use a ball peen hammer to drive finishing nails? |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 1:27:03 PM EDT
[#23]
A2 grips are $3.00 a piece and easily modified. Using a file to remove just the pointy part of the finger rest makes a world of difference. Just round off the sharp edges.
I think the A2 rear sight is the very best military sight ever made. Running an 8-36 tap through the front sight post hole allows you to run a set screw up from underneath that will remove all wiggle from the post. I use A1 length buttstocks with A2 buttplates installed. |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 4:06:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At what point did you carry the M4? Yes, I did carry both on the two way range. |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 5:26:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah really. I don't even mind the barrel, but a smooth PG and A1 stock would be more comfortable. I agree with the guy up thread about the 16" barrel being about ideal for usage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The A2 sights are not complicated, I don’t know why people parrot this. The stock is too long, and the barrel profile sucks. Aside from that, it’s great. kwg |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 5:52:39 PM EDT
[#26]
The worst aspect of mine is its a ban era upper, so no bayo lug.
I did have have the barrel cut for the flash hider. In hind sight, I should have just replaced it with a new Gov't profile barrel, since this one is a heavy barrel.To answer the OP, I think grip is the worst part. I really can't believe that went through all of that testing and was approved. |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 6:13:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm trying to find a rapidex knob for my SP1. |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 8:34:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My unit was issued M4's straight out of the crates from Colt in June 2004. Except for short periods where I carried an A2 or a GAU-5, it's been the M4 ever since. |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 9:38:43 PM EDT
[#29]
I don’t like the rear sight—I only shoot to 300 yards with irons & agreewith our Canadienne breatheren’s version. I don’t like the rear grip. And, again, the Canadiennes have better hammer forged barrels. And better stocks....
Come to think of it, the Canadiennes have a better version, eh? Take off, hoser. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 8:09:48 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I lugged around an A2 for 15 years. MOUT, Jungle, Mountains, Deserts, deep snow, monsoons, etc. I will say that I will take an M4 any day of the week for gun fighting, especially when wearing 2-3 inches of armor. I issued M4 was one of the first 400 produced (ser# W003xx, 4 pos CAR stock)), guess it had the flat top added sometime between when it was made and it got to me. How the hell did you get a GAU? 
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Posted: 10/6/2018 12:12:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got a GAU-5 the same way anybody else did. Be in the Air Force. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I lugged around an A2 for 15 years. MOUT, Jungle, Mountains, Deserts, deep snow, monsoons, etc. I will say that I will take an M4 any day of the week for gun fighting, especially when wearing 2-3 inches of armor. I issued M4 was one of the first 400 produced (ser# W003xx, 4 pos CAR stock)), guess it had the flat top added sometime between when it was made and it got to me. How the hell did you get a GAU? |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 12:53:13 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The nub on the A2 grip and the length of the stock is an issue, the Colt CS stock should have been the standard. Also, the A1 profile barrel should not have been messed with. Everything else is pretty much fine with me except for the fact that it's a fixed carry handle upper... I very much prefer ACOGs.
So I guess I would like the A4 version of this best. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 12:57:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Screen name is kind of a hint. USAF Security Forces motto. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 2:36:57 PM EDT
[#34]
An ideal A2 would have been Colt CS stock, and a 18.5" barrel with a ~ .650 profile running the entire length.
2" shorter / handier and lighter in the right spot to make a much nicer balancing and maneuvering rifle. You also get the same ballistics and reliability with the 18.5" barrel as the 20" with M193 or M855. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 5:34:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Oh good Lawdy. The A2 is an upgrade from almost 40 years ago. At that time, there were rifle length gas systems and carbine length gas systems, and the carbine length had yet to proven to be fully reliable. Shortening the barrel with the rifle gas tube had lead to unreliable consequences. The A2 was a result of the USMC's desire to have a better service rifle, both in accuracy and strength. With that in mind, the lower was strengthened in key areas, the stock was made of stronger materials, the barrel diameter increased, the FH modified and a more adjustable rear sight added, along with a brass deflector. I've read through internet stories that there was a new A1 length stock also planned but it fell through the cracks somehow. Maybe Coldblue might be able to answer that. I am lucky that I am within that range of Marines that never was issued an A1, but knew many that were in before me that did. Almost to the man, they all preferred the improvements of the A2 over the A1, with the PG being the lone hold out. Personally I never knew any stocks other than the A2, CAR and M4. I never cared for the M4 stock and was glad my only issued M4 had the old CAR stock. Then last year I built a 16" midlength with A1 stock and PG and thought to myself that if this had been the A2, the M4 would likely have never existed.
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Posted: 10/6/2018 5:50:53 PM EDT
[#36]
I was issued both the A1and A2 rifles, I definitely preferred the A2. The M4 was just being issued when I got out. Both A1 and A2 rifles were nice to carry when I wasn't carrying the pig (M60).
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Posted: 10/7/2018 3:47:17 AM EDT
[#37]
The only downside of the A2 is the fixed stock.. even the A1 is uncomfortable if you wear a body armor. But this is a common issue with other platforms (G36, AR70/90, etc).
As for the pistol grip.. I have no problem with it and I find interesting that an improvement requested by the end user in modern rifle like the ARX160 was the A2 style PG.. there must be a reason for that
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Posted: 10/7/2018 4:33:18 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hate the finger ledge I can live with it but that's what irritates me more than any other single thing. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 4:49:47 AM EDT
[#39]
I carried virtually everything issued between '79 and 2006, out of all of them, the A2 was my favorite, I also liked the Model 727 version, still not my favorite though, I don't like the M4 weapons and the A1 stock was not comfortable to me, but in use in a hot situation, I didn't really give a shit what I had in hand as long as it went bang. I am not a fan of the short carbines most of the time, I like the longer weapons as I was more accurate with them. I am really surprise that so many are so fond of the shorter weapons these days, I own a couple of SBR's and pistols and they rarely get shot, they are more of a novelty to me and the guys I shoot with.
My vote is the A2. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 6:24:12 AM EDT
[#40]
^
agree. IMHO, the US should have gone with a 16'' rifle from the beginning. And then just add a 10.5 upper to the inventory for CQB use. The russians really got it right with the AK. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 11:40:02 AM EDT
[#41]
Thinking back to the 2009 Small Arms Firing School at Camp Perry with rack rifles - FSB ears, trigger, stock length.
(Balancing the barrel profile to about ~0.675" after the chamber for the remaining length might be good.) I drew one that just worked. Some were filthy and jammed, some had bent posts, some had stuck rear sights. In the classroom, one of the demonstrations was lifting an A2 by the trigger on Fire and having to bounce it to release. At the time, my AR used a standard trigger that dad worked on. About 5.5lbs, slow as heck. First time with the M16, I thought it was on Safe. Probably averaged 8-9lbs. The stock length is fine for a 6' lad slung up prone with a medium coat. Even w/o armor, etc, squaring up still requires a fair amount of angle to have a good eye proximity. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 11:47:52 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boo! Boo, I say! Go be flat-topped in the other 87 forums on this site! Boo!
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Posted: 10/7/2018 2:44:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If there was an A4 forum I'd be there |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 3:05:02 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/AR-Discussions/118/ |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 5:06:39 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote History |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 5:27:44 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A thread, not quite a sub-forum I'd figure and say we don't have an A4 sub-forum because at the bottom of the system, it's just a flat top upper. |
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Posted: 10/8/2018 9:02:30 PM EDT
[#47]
I think the worst thing about the A2 is that it's limited to burst (unlike the A3) and the semi-auto trigger pull suffers as well, due to the cam.
The next worse thing for me is the pistol grip. And finally the stock length (although with no armor on, it's perfect for me). Everything else is an improvement. 
OP, is there an appropriately sized LH tap that will fit in the rounded screw head? They work way better than Easy-outs. |
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Posted: 10/9/2018 7:58:26 AM EDT
[#48]
Seems like a poll should be added
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Posted: 10/11/2018 4:46:52 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh good Lawdy. The A2 is an upgrade from almost 40 years ago. At that time, there were rifle length gas systems and carbine length gas systems, and the carbine length had yet to proven to be fully reliable. Shortening the barrel with the rifle gas tube had lead to unreliable consequences. The A2 was a result of the USMC's desire to have a better service rifle, both in accuracy and strength. With that in mind, the lower was strengthened in key areas, the stock was made of stronger materials, the barrel diameter increased, the FH modified and a more adjustable rear sight added, along with a brass deflector. I've read through internet stories that there was a new A1 length stock also planned but it fell through the cracks somehow. Maybe Coldblue might be able to answer that. I am lucky that I am within that range of Marines that never was issued an A1, but knew many that were in before me that did. Almost to the man, they all preferred the improvements of the A2 over the A1, with the PG being the lone hold out. Personally I never knew any stocks other than the A2, CAR and M4. I never cared for the M4 stock and was glad my only issued M4 had the old CAR stock. Then last year I built a 16" midlength with A1 stock and PG and thought to myself that if this had been the A2, the M4 would likely have never existed. And the little set screw in the rear sight, takes a 1/16” Allen wrench to turn it in or out… 
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Posted: 10/11/2018 4:50:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this is what the A2 should have been 16" medium weight midlength 1/7 barrel A1 sights with A2 aperture A1 length stock of modern material https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/5205/C7_A1_Midlength_Fixed_stock-690803.jpg I was issued both, and deployed with both before getting M4s in 1997. I liked the M16A1 far better than the M16A2. The worst things about the M16A2 were: * Weight * Length * 3rd Burst screwing up trigger weight in SEMI * Rear Sight windage adjustment can be bumped/easily rotated Best things about the M16A2: * Furniture materials were substantially strengthened to reduce handguard and buttstock cracking (although I prefer the shape of the triangular guards) * Brass deflector * Compensator to reduce debris disturbance from muzzle blast in the prone |
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