I have never done it but heard some people soak the entire BCG or the bolt in Hoppes #9 or CLP or even the transmission fluid to fully get the carbon out.

Any thoughts on that?

Sounds excessive.

I have found that baked-on carbon generally needs to be scraped off or put in an ultrasonic cleaner.

Yes, but wouldn't soaking it loosen the carbon, making it easier to scrape off.

I soak all the bolt carrier parts (disassembled) in Hoppes #9 for about 1/2 hour then blow the parts off with compressed air.  Follow up by spraying all the parts with CLP and cleaning off the heavy carbon areas with a carrier tool or brass brush.  Finish by blowing off the excess CLP, wiping all the parts with a shop rag, and oiling the primary wear points during reassembly.

The Hoppes and CLP soften up the carbon, but it takes some detail work to really get rid of the stuff.  Process has worked well for a long time.

I soak bolts..... no scrubbing or scraping required. Been using this for over twenty years
Residue wipes off with a paper towel. No scraping needed at all. I soak every thousand or so.


Motorcraft carburetor cleaner

This is why I clean after every shooting session. I've never had to soak, and certainly NEVER had to scrape hardened carbon. ( AR's since 1978) Most in 1 session about 700 rounds. Disassemble, wipe down inside of receiver and bcg parts, toothbrush lugs and bolt face, punch bore, relube everything. Half hour 45 minutes tops.

There's a guy who used to post here (was actually a moderator for this forum) that was a proponent of soaking bolt components in odorless mineral spirits with a splash of CLP in the mix, for good measure. He seemed to be a fan of the results.

It is a good idea.  I find that cutting the spirits with Hoppe's #9 works well on softening carbon/lead deposits.  I soak suppressor baffles overnight in it with good success.  (Although for this latter application, I would strongly recommend wearing solvent resistant rubber gloves.)

Do a Google search for "Quib's Odorless Mineral-spirits/CLP Mixture". I soak the disassembled bolt assembly in this mixture while I tend to the rest of the rifle. Softens up the carbon and crud.

I have acetone and automatic transmission fluid...gonna see what that mixture does to a carbon caked bolt tomorrow after a range session.

I just keep my bolt wet and virtually everything wipes off with a rag with very little effort.

Slip 2000 works well. Probably other choices too.

I've done that back in my CLP days, it worked. Now I use Ballistol for lube and have yet to have the carbon get hard enough to not just wipe off.

Interesting.
I should get some of that.

Uh, no. I use 2 smudges of synthetic grease and 4 healthy drops of Mobil 1. Some of my buds criticize that as too much..

When I feel the need for a really deep cleaning on stuff I'll load up a 12 pack of good beer and head to a buddy's bicycle shop just before closing.   He & his mechanic sit around and drink, I'll use his parts washers and ultra sonic cleaner and air hose.

You can pretty much keep the bolt carrier carbon free using a military standard sectional rod and CLP as shown in this video. You can use a worn out .22 brush and use it to clean in between the space inside the bolt carrier where the fire pin goes through right before the retainer pin hole.



I used Hoppes before, and quite honestly the worst cleaner I ever used. You should get Boretech carbon eliminator that they make. You're going to see a difference between night and day using that.

I sent that in one of the Slip 2K combo packs to my kid when he was in basic.  He said it worked so well the drills were using his M4 to show everyone what theirs should look like.  He still uses it & took it with him on his deployment.  Wish they'd had that stuff when I was in.  They used to have a 4oz pack, but I can only find the 2oz pack now.  https://www.amazon.com/Slip-Ultimate-Cleaning-System-Combo/dp/B0064VLT1I

I also have a sonic cleaner I use to clean stuff that's tough to get off or just a PITA to get into all the tight spaces.

Mineral Spirits from your local home stores paint dept.
Everything except the extractor, because the bumper is rubber.
Parts can even soak overnight, wron't hurt them.
When you pull parts out hit with compressed air or air dry.
Make sure you relube

I'm cheap so I use a homemade version. Kerosene (mineral spirits work ok too) and alcohol. About a 50/50 mix.
Hoppes #9, the cleaner, not the oil or any of the other dozen things that are part of the Hoppes #9 product line, is about 45% denatured alcohol, about 45% kerosene, about 5% banana oil (for the smell), and a bout 5% ammonia (why it's ok for removing light copper fouling and why you don't soak old school nickel plated firearms).

The only real carbon build up I ever get is on the ramp of the bolt tail which I just scrape off with a piece of old brass.  I just run a few swabs through the bolt then rinse with brake clean, oil, and reassemble.

I usually soak the BCG, slides, small parts, in MPro7 gun cleaner.  I leave the parts in for a few hours.  Then when I get them out of the solution, everything is clean and crud just scrubs or wipes off.  I can use the cleaner a few times before it loses its effectiveness.

Carbon cutter works very well.

I tried carbon cutter and it sucked.  Dont need it anyway, run the bolt wet and most will wipe off.

You dont need to clean your AR, just add oil and it will run and run.  Dont believe me?  

Filthy 14

* This article is old, current round count is 60k+ *

As of this writing, EAG students have 31,165 rounds downrange through Filthy 14. During this evaluation period, it was cleaned once (as in one time), at 26,245 rounds. The end result is that Rack #14 was—and remains—filthy. It is filthy because it has been shot at class. Only at class. Every round that has gone down that barrel has been fired at class, with an average of approximately 1,300 rounds every three days. It has been lubed generously with Slip 2000 Extreme Weapons Lube (EWL).

The combination of carbon and lube create (wait for it)…filth. It is so dirty that, while sitting in the rifle rack, it is almost a biohazard. The filth oozes out and contaminates other carbines adjacent to it.

But it is still shooting—and shooting well.

Rack #14 is a 16-inch Bravo Company Mid Length Carbine—mid length meaning that the gas system is two inches longer than the standard carbine gas system. This permits the use of a nine-inch rail with the standard front sight base. Use of a clamp on the front sight will permit a longer rail to be used.

The longer rail is necessary to accommodate some shooting styles, as well as to provide additional rail estate for the various white lights and IR lasers required to kill bad guys at night.

Subjectively, the mid length system has a softer recoil impulse.



The lower receiver is a Bravo Company USA M4A1, one of very few in circulation. It has a TangoDown BG-16 Pistol Grip. An LMT Sloping Cheekweld Stock (aka the Crane Stock) rides on the milspec receiver extension, as does a TangoDown PR-4 Sling Mount.

The upper is a BCM item, with a milspec 16.1”, 1:7 twist barrel. The barrel steel is chrome moly vanadium (CMV) and certified under milspec Mil-B-11595E.

The BCM bolt is machined from milspec Carpenter 158® gun quality steel, heat-treated per milspec, and then shot peened per Mil-S-13165. Once completed, each bolt is fired with a high-pressure test (HPT) cartridge and then magnetic particle inspected (MPI) in accordance with ASTM E1444.

The handguard is a LaRue 15-9, the nine-inch model to allow full use of the available rail estate.

We have a TangoDown BGV-MK46K Stubby Vertical Foregrip. We use TangoDown BP-4 Rail Panels.

The primary sight is an Aimpoint T1 in a LaRue 660 Mount. The T1 is still on the same set of batteries, and it has never been shut off. The back-up sight is the Magpul MBUS and the sling is the Viking Tactics VTAC.

This is a normal configuration for our guns, although stocks (Magpul CTR, Vltor I-Mod), BUIS (Troy), and day optic (Aimpoint M4s) may be substituted.



IN SERVICE

We received the carbine in late 2008 and put #14 into service shortly thereafter.

At Brady, Texas, in March 2009, it suffered a malfunction, which was reduced with Immediate Action. The bolt was wiped down at 6,450 rounds.

At Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin, in May 2009, it had several failures to extract, and the extractor spring was replaced at 13,010 rounds. This is far beyond the normal extractor spring life under these conditions.

At Wamego, Kansas, in June 2009, two bolt lugs broke at 16,400 rounds. We replaced the BCG. Considering the firing schedule, this is within normal parameters.

At Columbus, Ohio, in November 2009, we had several failures to extract at 24,450 rounds. The shooter gave it a field cleaning and replaced the extractor and extractor spring.

At 28,905 rounds, we finally cleaned Filthy 14. As part of our year-end maintenance schedule, we inspect and replace parts as necessary. Filthy 14 looked like the inside of the crankcase of Uncle Ed’s ’49 Packard. It was disgusting to look at and contaminated everything near it, somewhat like the toner cartridges for old printers.

I plopped it into a parts washer filled with Slip 725 parts cleaner, and 20 minutes later it was clean. Mostly clean, anyway.

We have never used a bore brush in the barrel of this gun. We did run a patch down the barrel twice, but that was all. At 50 yards it still shoots two-inch groups, and we understand that it might not at 100 yards and beyond, but we are happy with the fact that, even at 50 yards, the gun is capable of tighter groups than most of the people running it.

We have never used a chamber brush in this gun either. We were often told that this was an absolute must.

Sure…

At the last class in Casa Grande, Arizona, at approximately 30,000 rounds, we had several failures to extract. We replaced the extractor spring and wiped down the BCG.

By the time you read this, we’ll likely have another 3,000 to 4,000 rounds through Filthy 14. At that point we’ll probably retire it. We’ll reuse the LaRue rail, the sights and, after rebuilding the lower, and replace that old and well-worn mid length upper with something else.



Fourteen will continue, but just not as Filthy 14.

WHY WE DID IT

What was the point of this 15-month exercise? We know than an AR built to the spec will run more reliably for a longer period of time than a hobby gun. We have run a number of guns to over 15,000 rounds without cleaning—or malfunctions—as long as they were kept well lubricated. And because we have over 20 Bravo Company guns in the armory, we also understand that the quality of one is not an accident.

My background of belonging to a tribe where weapons cleaning approached Jesuit-like fanaticism caused me to once believe that the AR must be spotlessly, white-glove clean in order for it to run.

We know that is patently false, and in fact the overzealous cleaning regimen—clean for three days in a row, use of scrapers on the BCG, attaching chamber and bore brushes to drills, etc.—is harmful to the guns.

We know that not all ARs are the same, and only a fool believes that “parts are parts.”

If you want something that is visually similar to what the military uses, buy just about anything and you’ll be satisfied. But if you are going to use it for real, buy something that is made to the spec.

Have realistic expectations. No gun—or car, plane, hibachi or person—lasts forever. Recently a customer sent an upper back to Bravo Company complaining that the gas tube was bent.

It sure was. It was bent because the owner apparently fired 600 rounds downrange in full auto, causing the gas tube to melt into the barrel. If you want to be stupid, buy a lesser quality gun and save yourself some money.

Again, let me repeat the caveat. If you are carrying a gun for real, you need to be looking at it every 5,000 rounds or so. But if your cleaning takes more than 10 to 15 minutes, you are wasting your time on nonsense.

At a carbine class in Colorado last year, one-third of the carbines used (eight of 24) were Bravo Company guns. The fact that the Pueblo West classes are populated in large part by professionals means that this may be a clue.

CONCLUSIONS

The fact that Filthy 14 ran so long and well can be attributed to the following:

First is the design of the gun. Cpl. Eugene Stoner knew what he was doing.

Second is the quality of this particular gun from Bravo Company. Paul Buffoni knows what he is doing.

Third is the fact that we used Slip 2000 EWL which, based on past evaluations, keeps guns running long after other lubes have rolled craps. It kept the gun lubricated and made it easier for those rare times when we did clean it. Greg Conner knows what he is doing.

Finally we had a great group of volunteers who took the time to aid us in this evaluation. Bravo Zulu, guys!

(Pat Rogers is a retired Chief Warrant Officer of Marines and a retired NYPD Sergeant. Pat is the owner of E.A.G. Inc., which provides services to various governmental organizations. He can be reached at
[email protected])

By Patrick A. Rogers

For the PDF file version of this article click here -> Filthy 14

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I soak the entire BCG over night in Hoppes.
Disassemble and wipe down the next morning. I've been doing that way tor years.

For maintenance, aka “dust and rust”: wipe crud with ‘dirty’ rag, generously coat everything with CLP (or favorite cleaner), wipe excess with ‘clean’ oily rag.

In the field, my ‘dirty rag’ was a section of old t-shirt, the ‘Clean oily rag’ was usually a section of sleeve. In a pinch, the neck thingy part can be used as a makeshift bore-snake.


For detail cleaning, I strip everything down and drop into a container of odorless mineral spirits while I clean the major components like barrel, lower, etc. The barrel gets KG carbon cleaner for deep cleaning. Compressed air for most of the lower. Hit the small parts with a GP brush (Tooth brush), then compressed air. Depending on residual crud, parts may go into sonic cleaner, but usually residue can be removed manually with little effort. Generously lube everything, wipe/blow off excess. And Bob’s your uncle.

I used to love reading articles like that but soon enough realized it's just marketing bull crap. Just think about it for a second. It's not THEIR rifle that they're shooting. It's a loaner. They just take it with them in case someone needs a rifle. Does it work? In that capacity yes.

The truth is you need to disassemble and clean your rifle. Even Pat Rogers himself breaks his firearm down, wipes it, and lube it up. Then there is a certain level of bull crap in that as well. His firearms are given to him and he uses them to teach a class. So it's like a tool at that point and it only needs to function for the purpose he needs it to. Is he going to do that to his heirloom rifle that his great grand dad had as a kid? Probably not. You don't see any videos of him running around with his granddad's six shooter and mag dumping it then talk about how he only used Slip2000 on it and how carbon just wipes off.

Let's put it this way:

If your weapon was given to you by an organization that can buy all the replacement parts (military, LEO, etc), then yeah, I probably wouldn't pay much attention to cleaning it only whatever I'm told to clean it.

If your weapon was bought or inherited to you, then yeah, you probably want to take care of it unless you have all the necessary maintenance parts to hold it up.

Nothing lasts forever, and poor maintenance or just shitty job at doing it is going to cause the weapon to break eventually and need parts replaced sooner.

The CLP haters will probably be on me before the end of the page.

That said, I've fired tens of thousands of rounds through AR's over a period of about 30 yrars.

The only chemical I use to clean them is Break Free CLP .
That includes the bore.
With one exception: I have discovered that every 500 rounds or so, I can perceive a difference in accuracy if I give the bore - especially the throat area where the chamber meets the rifling - a little scrub (and I do mean a LITTLE) with JB Bore Paste.

Oh, and I DRY-BRUSH the bore - just three strokes - before I spray CLP down the bore in advance of pulling three patches through it.
Dry brushing knocks the majority of the carbon out in a little dust-cloud instead of turning it into a paste if you put chemicals in the bore ahead of the brush.

So, limited sample size given the short amount of time I've been at this. I'll probably blow up a gun any day now.

I use a wee bit of Harbor Freight (used to use Tetra) grease from the gray toothpaste-tube on the trigger-engagement surfaces.
That grease is a good dielectric too if you like to work on the electrics of cars.

I scrape the carbon off the ass-end of the bolt with a pocket knife, and I dig the carbon out of the bolt carrier with a cheap screwdriver I stole from my boss in 1978.
I hose-down the bolt with CLP and I blow it off with compressed air and detail a little bit with a Q-Tip.

After I get all the chunky bits off, I leave a little CLP on the other metal surfaces that play touchy with each other when the gun is running.

If the CLP haters beat me up bad enough, I'll tell the story about how I once cleaned an AR with Vagisil.

CLP.... its the one for me.

Hoppes #9 is good for dissolving copper because it contains ammonia.

If you have a barrel that is filling up with copper enough that it needs to have it dissolved-out with ammonia, you might want to consider getting a better barrel.

Good barrels accumulate almost no copper. But they will accumulate CARBON in the throat.

Soak the entire bolt carrier group in Motorcraft carburetor cleaner.
It dissolves ALL the carbon. Wipes off with a paper towel.

I've been using Break Free CLP for years. The first FFL dealer I bought from had several bottles of BF CLP which I grabbed. Price was good. That supply lasted me for years. Just got a gallon from Brownells to replenish. That should last me a bit.

I have a jar with Ed's Red in it.....throw it in and let it soak a while.

Attached File

Wipe it out with fresh clp. Jam a rag in and twist, q tips, whatever.

Liberally apply clp and go shoot.

I used Army issue CLP my entire career and I've yet to find anything that works any better and it's not stupid expensive.

It's a BCG not sorcery FFS.

Take apart bcg,throw in container and spray with clp. When I’m done with rifle I scrape,scrub and re grease bcg.

This stuff works great for it.


https://www.amazon.com/Slip-2000-Carbon-Killer-15-Ounce/dp/B005AXSS0Q

I'll throw it out there...

I had great luck using grease, until I got a suppressor. Locked the gun up in about 100rds. Switched back to CLP, no problems since.

Grease probably isn't a great idea for those of us in Ohio or further north come winter time either. You'd probably never notice in SC.

Grease is also great for long time storage on loud guns. Won't migrate anywhere near as bad as oil.

I just use the CAT M4 Cleaning Tool that does a fairly good job of scrapping the carbon from my bolts. There is also the OTIS B.O.N.E. Tool but I do not have any experience with that tool. There are other tools as well but I bought my carbon scrapper so many years ago now.

https://americanshootingjournal.com/coolest-ar-15-bolt-cleaning-tools/