Hi,

Just wanted to ask a simple question to any owners of the SL-100, SL-150, or SL-500.

I am about to start the process with my SL-150 (same tool, just brighter than the 100).

Can any owners confirm whether or not the (run of the mill) factory AR "Flash Hiders" can be a problem for the SiteLite dot's "POI", will it cause a shift or is it the same either way?[/b]

I plan to do a 360 twist with the SiteLite once inserted, just to see if the POI changes location on the target at 25-50 yards, which would show me if "some" Flash Hiders are indeed offset from center of the bore, as the tapered part of the Bore Site's Shaft will likely magnetize itself to the inner most part of the Flash Hider, opposed to the actual Crown.

I would hope not, but if so, are Flash Hiders easily removed with ONLY an AR wrench? I do not have a vice vice for the rifle. I've never messed with my AR flash Hiders so not sure if they are stubborn to remove or not. Most are low round count (highest around 7-800 rounds and others are under 200rds.

Do they put "Lock Tight" on the threads or just torqued on without heat affecting the tightness?

Hope to hear back!

As I said in your previous post, it's unclear what "factory flashider" is? Do you mean a A2 birdcage flash hider?

The laser would work for any flash hider. There's no "issue" with it unless you have a very unusual flash hider that would make the outer layer uneven. The flash hider has no effect on the functioning of the laser as when you insert the laser, it is aligned by the bore and the cone is resting on the edge of the flash hider.

This is a very unusual question as I cannot even think of a reason why the flash hider would even mean anything.

Also, what exactly are you trying to do with the laser? It sounds like you're trying to accomplish more with it than simply confirming zero. The laser is simply to zero your rifle, nothing else. It's unclear why you would twist it 360 degrees just to check if it does anything?

It sounds like you got a lot of time on your hand. My recommendation is to hit a local bar, or maybe get a pet? It seems like you need to forget about this laser. You're going to boggle your mind.

Knew a guy who had one and he told me when New (Never used) or you want to check calibration, just twist it 360 degrees to make sure the dot stays in the same place and make sure it doesnt deviate. (I'm talking about like a 10-15 second task)

It made me even wonder "why" so I called amd the main SiteLite Technician said its best to do when new just to be safe, or when using SOME "muzzle devices", incase anything is off center from the bore.

He also *oddly* said that many customers find that using it upside down or twisted a certain way seems to work better for them (adds a little bit of doubt I must say, although I hope for the integrity of the laser that its people's SiteLites that have been knockrd out of being calibrated properlu, and they likely use a zeroed rifle to test it out before using and find a certain Canted degree works best for their "uncalibrated SL")

Although that eas never made clear to me, that's wishful thinking though for "The World's best Bore Site Laser" in which I was told "You may find it works better upside down, or anywhere in between" which isnt what you really want to hear after spending about $160 on a BoreSighter.

And yes, when I sit aside a day to do this on about 20+ rifles (couple friends need it done aswell) I will have alot of time on my hands and want to do everything right, then I just want to make sure I get the job done, opposed to being too prideful to ask a forum about it. (Lube for O-Rings advised to only use grease, keeping BirdCage Flash Hiders on Vs Removing them, cleaning the Vaseline out of 20+ bores without it taking all damn day, etc etc) I'll be using Slip2000 though as one member says works fine.

Also, you just said its no issue with a Flash Hiders, yet another guy in the last thread said that it "would throw it off by an inch" so that is why I made this post, for owners of the "SiteLite" BoreSite that can verify their findings whether good or bad, as his findings and yours are telling me 2 different things.

Also, yes, "A2 birdcage" FlashHiders on the ARs.

Btw, just now seeing your post on the other thread.

Thanks for the Flash Hider info.

I would just be removing them and putting the same one back on, although if just as aligned as opposed to it not being their, I may leave them on as I do not have anything to guage the appropriate torque, and too many rifles to get the gunsmith to do before, and after. Lol.

Honestly I think you’re putting too much effort into this. You should be shooting the rifle to confirm. Everyone shoots differently. The laser isn’t meant to be exact as I said it doesn’t account for ballistics of the ammo, and on top of that how the shooter may shoot. It’s meant to confirm zero, with emphasis on YOUR zero.

Unless you are competing and must hold a 1/2 MOA or better, I see no reason to mess with a bore laser at the level you’re doing. Even with the bore site how far do you plan to shoot? And as always shooting beyond that requires a bit of trial and error especially if it is outside the norm. For hunting and real world applications a 3MOA or better at 100 yards is good enough and even acceptable for out to 300 yards. If you use the bore sight to zero at 25 yards, what distances are you trying to hit beyond that? Again slapping the laser in won’t tell you if you’ll hit 100 yards only that whatever zero you held at 25 yard is holding. It won’t be perfectly centered with your sight.

With that said you never stated the exact reason you need this sort of precision. What are you trying to do?

Understood,

I know about the trajectory as I studied them awhile back and have chosen my fav ones long ago and the one for my AR with Aimpoint seems pretty damn good (50/200), so I plan to do a 50/200yd zero on the ARs, and a 25/225yd zero on AKs. (I prefer the Zeroes with the least bit of deviation between the low and long distance, although it takes away from the rifles full potential but I guess I just prefer the "Urban zeroes" the most).

Which I see most useful for target shooting, and hunting, and even protection (one reason I like short range to be zeroed in, plus the closest indoor range is 75ft (25yds) I'll admit.

I Will fine tune at the range, but mainly want to use this to adjust "Windage" as my first priority, especially on AKs with Canted front site Blocks as I have some safe queens also that are unfired, and likely Canted to some degree so with those also, I'm mainly just going to be tuning the Windage to whatever the laser shows so I can confirm its shooting as close to "straight" as possible, rather tha  using a safe queen in an emergency and it being as usefull as a steel club.

Especially since they will not see any time at the range, so I'd like to set the windage and elevation on these, and take note of which ones are the Straightest from the factory incase I ever go to thin the herd...

I'm not the type to want to shoot an AKM with the front sight touching the bullhorns. Lol

I have about 35 yards to shine the laser the the tree (with Target) that I plan to use, so made me think of doing the 36/300 with the AR, but I like how the 50/200 doesn't (normally) deviate from a 2" Up, or down, between 50 and 200, although 36 allows it to reach out further so may pick one to have more of that "long reaching" yet still small devation opposed to the 100yd zero, I think the Mil uses but I understand it reaches out much further..

I'll likely decide what I want out of the diff rifle setups when I fine tune at the range, but "Windage adjustment" is 100% my main goal with the BoreSite laser as some AK FSB's are noticeably off.

Also, with the AK, I plan to try the 25/225 zero which is becoming popular (with the sight ladder set on "2" aka 200m setting).

Apparently the biggest deviation between 25 and 225 is 3", and its said you can just do a holdover at 100yds, and some even say you can set the sighy ladder on "1" and it will be nearly spot on and that this zero roughly calibrates the AK sight ladder. (I know RUS soldiers do a 25m zero on "1" but then put it on the "Battle Setting" setting in the rearmost position which can handle a human sized target up to around 400m IIRC, but their is a huge deviation in between. I personally don't ever plan on using self defense that far. Lol.
Although may be cool to zero one for that set up for the entire SHTF mindset, better safe than sorry.

If I can get to 50 yards worth of distance, Ill do 50 on the AR and 50 on the AK also (with the AK on the 1 setting which would be only about an inch of elevation deviation away from a 100m zero on the "1" (100m) setting.

My AR with Aimpoint has the rear sight 1 "Magpul- mbus sized tic mark" away from being all the way to the left.
Hell, its easy on the neck though that way.

All in all, hoping I can trust this laser for pretty accurate results, especially for canted sight blocks.

I prefer PMC Xtac 556 62gr and have the most of that, but alsl have PMC Bronze 223 55gr, PMC X-Tac 55gr, which I know will all likely yield different results, just not sure of how big of a difference. (I assume the 55gr X-Tac will be more alike in a zero than the 223 which is noticable not as hot, same as any 223 vs 556).

Are you an AK guy also by chance? That's where the steel cased brands can vary greatly! Especially Lot to Lot, box to box, and even round to round. Got some Golden Tiger right before all of the problems started when it became 10x more available, at which time it was the gold standard of steel cased (laqcuered and Boat Tail also) but thinking of trying out Brown and Silver Bear, as the Bears are all made by Barnual.

Most factory flash hiders are installed with a crush washer. You will need a top and a vise to remove the muzzle device.

Most cheap A2 flash hiders are not bore concentric, you will see a difference when rotating the boresighter 360*

Why not just get out and shoot the damn thing?

Doing over a dozen rifles, plus some of other people's so don't have time to shoot them, but *especially* don't want to mess up the "Windage" when using it when the birdcage flash hider one it.

Although if it goes into the bore straight, I guess maybe it could help to not let the highest point of the shaft magnetize to the flash hider, which I still dont understand how it can Magnetize to the Bird "unlevel" if its snug inside of the bore in a straight line.

If off a tiny bit, no worries, but if it throws it off from being on paper at 100 (or most importantly if off paper at distances like 25-50), then the Flash Hiders will be a huge problem on AR's when doing this.

Hopefully you are saying it may just be off a tad, opposed to the dot moving 6+ inches in another direction due to the flashhiders.

As far as the few AR's being done, Uppers are "original" M&P Sport (Gen 1 with 1/8 and 5R), DPMS, and Spikes Upper, all with factory Birdcage FH.

Also, if doing a 50/200 zero on an AR that has one if the bulky Mil-type rear sites and also one with an A1 style carry handle with Rear Sight Dial, what setting would it be best to set it on to where it would still have other settings that may be calibrated, as I figure I shouldn't do it on the very bottom setting.

All A2 BirdCage Flash Hiders Removed!

AR wrench, rifle laying on bed, pushed down on magwell to add leverage and all broke free easily. No vice needed (luckily)

My questions are:

When re-installing, should I do at home, or take to a Smith?

I've read the torque needs to be pretty specific and not overly tightened for barrel harmonic purposes, so just wondering.

Also, are new crush washers needed?

Any lube on threads needed?

Just trying to cover all corners here.

this seems like a lot of effort for something that's done within 5 minutes of shooting the rifle at the range. I understand the argument of "can't shoot all the rifles" but guess what, those rifles won't be zeroed then.  I've shot a lot of rifles that were boresighted in one way or another, and none of them were dead on. They all required something.  The only rifle(s) i've ever shot that were difficult were when something was wrong, or a part was a piece of crap.  Between my friends and I, and the numerous part changes that have occurred, there's probably been a couple hundred zeroing sessions at the same range. It's never been much more than a dozen rounds and a piece of paper.

What you're doing sounds exhausting and overcomplicated

I use a SL-150 and SL-500.  The 500 has a longer shank that will reach through a deep flash hider.  On a new build they work well to get on target before the first round is ever chambered.  I can assemble in the shop, laser site and be close when going to live firing.

Saves me time and ammunition.

I'm late to the party, but have a few general observations:

1.  Be careful using muzzle attached laser sighting devices if the barrel is a match barrel.  They can damage the muzzle crown and adversely affect accuracy, especially a target crown.  You are directly contacting the crown if you have removed the muzzle device, or if the rifle did not have one.  On such rifles, I simply remove the bolt and look through the bore with the rifle held in a padded vise, center it on a small object or target as far away as practical, at least 50 feet, preferably longer, and align the sights (usually a scope) with the center of the same object.

2.  I understand the 360 degree thing.  I have a laser sighting device (Bushnell).  I do use it on field grade type rifles.  The laser may not be concentric with the center shaft that goes into the barrel.  You will find some tiny screws on the side of the device, usually with hex heads, that control the alignment of the laser.  Putting the device in the bore and activating the laser while keeping the rifle absolutely still and rotating the laser 360 degrees should keep the laser dot in the same position on the wall.  If it wobbles, you will need to use those tiny screws to align it so that it is concentric with your bore and stays in the same place when the device is rotated, or you are wasting your time.

3.  Do not think that zeroing with such a devise will do anything more than simply get you on the target at perhaps 25-30 yards or so.  Bullet impact will be considerably different than your point of aim for a number of reasons.   You will have to rezero the rifle based on where the bullets impact the target and what zero you want to select.

4.  There is no reason to remove a muzzle device to do this, provided the laser's shaft is long enough to get it snugged up against the barrel crown.  These devices are usually slim enough that they fit inside your flash hider or comp.  Putting that muzzle device back on after zeroing is likely to change your point of impact.

My long-winded post basically distills down to this:

Don't use these devices with barrels intended to shoot tiny groups; be sure to align the laser beam with the centerline of the bore by using those little screws; be prepared to move your point of impact considerably once you fire the first few rounds;  leave the muzzle device on the rifle if possible.