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Posted: 11/16/2018 12:07:31 PM EDT
Part 1: because of post length for new users

Long time lurker, first time poster. I posted this on silencertalk because I've been a member there for a while, but I figured the good people here would have some good information as well.

I have a ranch in East Texas, and therefore am constantly trying to get rid of our mortal enemies, the feral hog. I've been hog hunting for roughly the last 15 years with all sorts of rifles. I've found the best system for me is a DMPS GII with a sig SRD7.62 silencer.

My issue is that when shooting suppressed, my ammo gets REALLY dirty in the magazine. Like causes malfunctions dirty. Failure to feed, failure to eject, and just general stoppages. Lots of tapping out stuck brass with a cleaning rod. I've found that I can alleviate the problem by only loading 5 rounds in a magazine at a time. However, I just got a thermal scope, and it's pretty common to run into groups of 30-40 hogs at a time. I would really like to use fully loaded 30 round mags if possible. I also would really like to continue using a silencer, as it seems to confuse the hogs making them run in circles rather then away from my location.
Link Posted: 11/16/2018 12:08:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Part 2:

I've had this problem across several different platforms. I've had issues using all kind of hornandy 6.8 ammo, a carbine length gas system, and a wilson combat whisper silencer. I've had issues using 300 bo barnes tsx, a pistol length gas system, with the same silencer. And now I'm having issues running 308 remington corelokt with the above mentioned rifle and sig silencer. I have a neighbor who hunts hogs 300 days a year, and is a major manufacturer of high end firearms, and he will only load 5 rounds in a magazine at a time. Because of these issues I try to clean my rifles very regularly. Usually won't put more than 100 rounds downrange without cleaning, and if I fire more than a couple of 5 round magazines while hunting I'll clean them after every trip. I used to use hoppes and then lube everything with remoil, and now I just wipe everything down with CLP wipes.

How do I fix this problem ? Will an adjustable gas block help ? Will going with a piston driven rifle vs a DI rifle make a difference ? Is there a lube I can coat my cases in ? Do I need to change my cleaning routine ? Am I the only one who's having these issues?

Thanks for the help
Link Posted: 11/16/2018 1:52:30 PM EDT
[#2]
I predator and hog hunt at night with suppressed ARs.

Adjustable gas blocks tamp down gas getting into the action via the gas tube, so they help, a lot. All of my ARs are DI and use adjustable blocks. It will also help keep the bolt locked while chamber pressure is up,  by slowing cyclic rate, thus reducing gas and crud from suppressor induced chamber back pressure.

A piston system eliminates gas via the tube so it helps more. And if it’s adjustable you can slow cyclic rate to keep the bolt locked longer and help with gas and crud from the chamber.

I think a barrel with minimal dwell time, i.e., the shortest workable distance from gas port to muzzle, helps drop chamber pressures quickly, ameliorates suppressor induced back pressure and gas and crud from the chamber. My cleanest shooting suppressed AR is my 5.56 mid length 11.5”, my second cleanest is my carbine length 11.5” 6.8.

I load my magazines full, but don’t load clean ammo on top of dirty ammo, and swap mags instead, if volume of shooting warrants it. I strip dirty ammo out of mags and roll it in rags or paper towels between hunts before loading it in a magazine.

I use Pmags for my 5.56s and tap them out or, if needed, wrap a long, thin flat blade screw driver in rags or paper towels to swab them out. I rarely need more cleaning. For my 6.8 I use ASC mags and have never had any issues, I just tap out any crud. I haven’t had to disassemble and clean but it’s probably a good idea to do it now and again.

On the ARs, I use Mobil 1 and go into a hunt wet. I wipe clean with paper towels or rags during a hunt if shooting volume warrants it. I clean between hunts, especially after a mid or high volume hunt. Not many rifle issues with that regimine, but a few, usually because I didn’t clean after a hunt, thinking the rifle wasn’t that dirty.
Link Posted: 11/16/2018 3:34:54 PM EDT
[#3]
I humbly suggest getting a good chamber brush and keep your chamber spotless. run your bolt and carrier wet with CLP. I've never had a malfunction with suppressor on 5.56. However, I only shoot up to 200 rounds suppressed.
Link Posted: 11/16/2018 7:11:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 11/20/2018 11:51:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Thanks for all the input, and thank you Dano for that lengthy explanation. Very informative.

Just to be clear, to my casual eye, the problem seems to be directly related to the amount of crud that builds up on the ammo in the magazine.The failures seem to be mostly related to dirty brass getting stuck in the chamber, either going in or coming out. As I said before, I can run 5 round mags through the rifle pretty much indefinitely. Good idea about the chamber brush, but after experiencing the problem I started to religiously use my chamber brush that had previously been collecting dust. This may be a dumb question, but do they make caliber specific brushes ? I originally bought mine for a  5.56.

JPK, are there any adjustable gas blocks in particular that you recommend ? I'll probably play around with that first before trying buffer weights, as I do shoot unsuppressed in certain occasions and I would think it would be easier to go back and forth with.

I have a good friend who works for a company who was an early investor in OSS. From what he tells me, they're pretty amazing. I also personally think they have incredibly bad marketing. I've seen them in person at the silencer shop, and nobody there really talks about them, and there's zero marketing material. If they're as good as they sound, you'd think they'd have giant posters and that all of the staff would be jumping up and down about them. I kind of suspect that working with the government is so lucrative that they're not too worried about the civilian market.
Link Posted: 11/20/2018 3:09:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 11/20/2018 8:09:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Suppressed rifles get fouled up quicker than unsuppressed, there is no real way around it.  That blow back of the gas pressure will get into the magazines, resulting in fouling build up in the magazine and on the ammunition.  As already mentioned, when reloading the magazine with rounds still left inside of it, remove the dirty rounds and wipe them off, then use those rounds on top of fresh rounds.

As already mentioned, slowing the timing cycle by adding a heavier buffer and/or action spring will often times help.  When teaching armorer courses, and building AR308 type rifles, we use and recommend buffers from http://heavybuffers.com/.

To answer your question a chamber brush, you can get AR10 chamber brushes, which are larger than the AR15 chamber brushes.
Dewey AR-10 Chamber Brush

Brownells AR-10 Chamber Brush

You should also scrub out the magazines, and my suggestion is to run them dry as any oil or solvents left behind can attract fouling.

Do not lubricate the ammunition, run it dry, as any lube or solvent on the ammunition can cause casings to get stuck in the chamber, get deformed, and if the lube is heavy enough you could possibly cause pressure issues.

You mention that you have been cleaning with Hoppe's, and lubing with RemOil, and are now wiping everything down with CLP wipes.  When teaching Armorer Courses, we teach doing maintenance on the AR15 & AR308 type rifles, as viewing it as a high performance engine, so you may need to consider cleaning and lubrication different when compared to bolt action rifles and shotguns, as the AR15 / AR308 type rifles run hotter and dirtier.  Running a suppressed rifle will mean that it gets hotter & dirtier quicker than unsuppressed.


Here is an quick description of a cleaning method we use on the AR15 / AR308 weapons system that you can adapt to your rifle if you wish:

What we teach in armorer courses & instructor courses is to use the proper cleaning equipment, and to give the entire rifle a thorough cleaning when you either need to or want to. To dispel any possible myths, the rifle doesn't need to be spotlessly white glove clean, it will run clean or dirty as long as the friction surfaces of the bolt carrier assembly are wet.

Recommended Cleaning Equipment:

Tooth Brush (Military style works well)
Bore Brush with 1-piece cleaning rod
Chamber Brush with chamber rod
Bore guide
Brass Jag in whatever calibers you shoot
Solvent (My preference is Slip2000 725 Cleaner Degreaser, is it loosens carbon & lead fouling, and there's no ammonia)
Copper Solvent when necessary (My preference is Sweet's 762 Solvent)
Cotton Patches
Denatured Alcohol
Brass Jag in any caliber you shoot
Pipe Cleaners with Bristles
Gun Lubricant (My recommendation is Slip2000 "EWL", as it runs well in the AR15 / AR308 weapons system)
Bolt Carrier Scraper

Start by separating the upper receiver from lower receiver, as it is easier to handle when cleaning. Next remove the bolt carrier assembly and charging handle, and set aside.

Remove the buffer and action spring from the lower receiver. Scrub the buffer and action spring with a solvent and tooth brush, then either rinse or wipe them off, and run them dry as they are low friction and won't rust, and lube will find its way onto them as you shoot the gun as it will come off the bolt carrier assembly.

Scrub the inside of the lower receiver using a good solvent and tooth brush, scrubbing loose any fouling build up inside the magazine well and trigger group area. With the fouling loose in the lower receiver, rinse of wipe away all fouling. Lubricate the trigger group and sear engagement surfaces, the lube all steel parts like the safety selector and pivot/takedown pins to protect from corrosion.

Scrub the inside of the upper receiver, making sure you get the area where the bolt cam pin rotates into when the bolt locks into battery with the barrel extension lugs, which is on the left side when working with a traditional right side ejection port. Rinse or wipe away all fouling.

Scrub the charging handle inside/outside with a tooth brush and solvent, then wipe away all loose fouling. Before you reinstall it back into the cleaned upper receiver, apply lubricant so the exterior rails are good and wet.

Clean the chamber using a chamber brush, and good solvent. Do this by inserting a solvent soaked chamber brush into the chamber, and give the solvent soaked brush about 5-6 rotations to get the fouling loose. Rinse or wipe away all fouling.

Insert the bore guide into the upper receiver. Using a solvent soaked bore brush with cleaning rod, insert the brush into the upper, and through the bore guide, allowing the bristles of the brush to scrub the bore. My preference is to scrub only one direction, from chamber towards the muzzle only, and not to scrub from rearward or back and forth, as by only going from chamber to muzzle you reduce the potential of causing damage. Once you have the fouling loose inside the barrel, use solvent soaked patches on a jag to remove all fouling, repeat using fresh solvent soaked patches through the barrel until they come out clean. Once clean, remove all solvent by dry patches, then my preference is to follow up with a few patches soaked in denatured alcohol to remove any solvent present. If you need to clean out copper fouling, follow the copper solvent makers directions, specifically making sure not to leave any ammonia based solvents soaking inside a barrel for more than 15-minutes max, and I prefer to rinse with several patches soaked in alcohol to remove any solvent.

Remove the firing pin, cam pin, and bolt from the bolt carrier. Scrape the inside of the bolt carrier to loosen fouling at the back where it is hard to brush. Scrub the inside and outside of the bolt carrier with a brush and solvent, once all fouling is loose you can either rinse or wipe it away. Remove the extractor, and clean the entire thing, making sure the lip where it grabs the ammunition is clean. Scrub the firing pin track with a solvent soaked pipe cleaner, then rinse and wipe dry. Scrub the outside of the bolt, lugs, tail, extractor area, and bolt face, getting all fouling loose, then rinse of wipe the fouling away. Scrub the cam pin and firing pin, and scrape away any carbon build up. Lubricate the bolt carrier, ejector channel, extractor, cam pin, bolt, and reassemble the bolt carrier. Lube the entire bolt carrier assembly liberally so it is glistening like a glazed donut, making sure the 7 bolt lugs and rails of the bolt carrier are good and wet.

With a clean chamber, barrel, upper receiver, charging handle, bolt carrier assembly, it is time to put things back together. Insert the lubricated charging handle, and bolt carrier assembly into the upper. Put the upper receiver and lower receiver assemblies back together, and manually cycle the action a few times. Function check to make sure everything is good internally. Scrub the outside of the rifle, once clean, wipe all steel surfaces with a lube for corrosion protection.

From there clean & inspect the magazines. Use quality ammunition from a USA Reputable Manufacturer. Lubricate all steel parts that could rust, using a lubricant that has corrosion protection. Lubricate all friction points.

CY6
Greg Sullivan "Sully"
SLR15 Rifles
TheDefensiveEdge.com
(763) 712-0123
View Quote
I dont own a bolt carrier scraper. Any one in particular you reccomend?
Link Posted: 11/20/2018 9:04:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 11/21/2018 1:09:31 AM EDT
[#9]
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