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Posted: 1/4/2023 1:50:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Hey guys, just want to knock a couple things out off the bat, yes I should stop being a pussy, yes I should go to a doctor, yes I should try shooting a M14 like everyone and their brother did when I was still a sperm cell. However, while my first paragraph is all true enough I’d like to get the thoughts of some more experienced than I. I’ve been trying to shoot without letting the gun move and maintain better control. But I’m pulling it into my shoulder so hard that it’s causing bruising. Am I pulling too hard or is this how it’s supposed to be? I will say that even with my current level of tension on the weapon it still is not super controlled when I fire it. Thank you in advance for any insight. You shouldn't be bruising yourself to shoot a rifle. Firm grasp is all you need.. loosen up, lean into the gun instead of away from it, and allow your hands grasp as well as your shoulder to run the gun. Sounds like you are more focused on trying to overpower it that you are causing more issues than are being solved. |
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Posted: 1/4/2023 2:15:25 AM EDT
[#2]
Try putting the buttplate in the pocket between your shoulder joint and collar bone. Also, you will toughen up over time. My late brother purchased a left handed Rem 700 30-06. He was a South paw. I offered to mount his scope and sight it in for him. At the time I was shooting a Model 70 Win Light 300 Win Mag with no issues from the bench, full power loads. I finished sighting in the lefty 30-06 and thought what the heck, I'll give it a go left handed. It kicked the crap out of me. Bruises, pretty colors, just like my first time shooting. No bruises with much lighter 300 mag, big bruises with 30-06.
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Posted: 1/4/2023 2:16:04 AM EDT
[#3]
WTH???!!!!
The AR-15 is one of the softest recoiling long guns I own, the first being the 10/22. Maybe you are shouldering the rifle in an awkward position where you are going to get pounded. Keep on shooting and practicing. I used to have palm pain after shooting my J-frame revolver in the beginning. But after practicing and shooting, no more pain or discomfort. Good luck. |
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Posted: 1/4/2023 3:37:27 AM EDT
[#4]
Put the rifle butt in the pocket between your shoulder and your collar bone and pull it in toward you firmly.
With your support hand grip the fore end push forward like you're trying move the rifle away from you. Just holding it in tension between your firing hand and your support hand. See if that helps. I was always taught especially when shooting a shotgun or any rifle with a lot of recoil to keep it firmly on my shoulder so it just pushes you back and just rest the fore end in my support hand. By tensioning the weapon between your arms your shoulder is not absorbing the full recoil, some of it is being cancelled by your support arm. Made a difference for me. |
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Posted: 1/4/2023 3:42:12 AM EDT
[#5]
Bruised shoulder ?
Try a chin-weld: |
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Posted: 1/4/2023 9:18:26 AM EDT
[#6]
Awesome, great insight! Thank you. Yes I’m definitely trying too hard to overpower the rifle. I never bruised before doing this, but before the rifle would not stay completely still (or almost) when firing. So I thought I needed to do this to get maximum control. I will take all of the advice given. I like the idea of putting forward pressure on it as well to help absorb the recoil.
Watching these experienced shooters makes it look like the gun has zero recoil and I’d certainly like to be able to do that. But when you just pick the gun up without their unspoken techniques, it is nowhere near as soft as they make it look. I’m just trying to learn how it is done. |
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Posted: 1/4/2023 10:49:52 AM EDT
[#7]
No such thing as zero recoil, it's physics. You're setting off a small explosion 3 inches from your face. That force has to go somewhere.
I've had many 500+ round days without issue. Only gun that ever bruised was shooting 3.5 inch turkey shells to pattern. Relax your hold. Don't put it on your collarbone. If you still rock "too much" you can always move the rifle a bit more towards midline, onto the pec a bit. |
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Posted: 1/4/2023 3:57:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No such thing as zero recoil, it's physics. You're setting off a small explosion 3 inches from your face. That force has to go somewhere. Well . . . Yes and No. 
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Posted: 1/6/2023 9:53:33 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryYes. There's a backblast from that too. Just an open vent, not closed, like a rifle. |
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Posted: 1/7/2023 4:12:40 PM EDT
[#10]
What specific rifle are you firing ?
Lots of recoil pads available. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 10:25:36 PM EDT
[#11]
DDM4 V7. MFT Minimalist buttstock. It has a mid length gas system but isn’t as soft as I thought it would be. My Ruger AR556 actually feels softer (maybe because of weight). It’s not that I can’t handle the recoil or anything I’m just trying to get a better technique down and in so doing started bruising myself lol.
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Posted: 1/10/2023 11:30:21 AM EDT
[#12]
I use to be super sensitive to recoil and understand what you're saying, you just need to relax when holding your rifle in your rest. Don't over think it, just let your hands and arms absorb some of the recoil and not let your shoulder take it all. AR-15's really don't have much recoil, just a solid push but you need to get use to it a bit more and enjoy. Shoot the rifle a bit more and become accustomed to it better.
I had a DD DDM4v7 rifle that had more recoil (over gassed) and you could really feel it over my other AR-15's, so I upgraded the buffer and recoil spring to an H3 buffer and a Blue Sprinco spring and it made it more manageable to shoot. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 12:10:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Lean forward, knees bent like a boxer.
I don't try to hold gun perfectly still to be on target, I raise gun to target. Fire when on target. This is shooting off hand, not bench. You can put a brake on muzzle, they are annoying for anyone to the sides of you but reduce recoil. Suppressor FTW. There is a butt stock that has a spring built in, I have one. It's heavy and overkill but it does work. |
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Posted: 1/10/2023 12:20:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Yes find that pocket between your shoulder and collarbone. If it's actually on your shoulder that not great. I'd say 5.56 brusing your shoulder is an indicator that you're out of position.
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Posted: 1/11/2023 10:04:27 AM EDT
[#15]
The rifle will recoil. Can't stop that except by not shooting it at all.
You need to learn how to "build" a position that allows the rifle to recoil and return to it's previous lined up on the target position. Your foot position, hand position, where the butt is on your shoulder, where your head/cheek/nose is on the rifle, all that affects the way the rifle reacts to firing that round - and how it affects you. Ever heard of Appleseed? If you can find an Appleseed near you and attend you'll learn a lot about fundamentals of rifle shooting and how to build that firing position (prone and sitting/kneeling will use a sling but standing can be with/without a sling). On blood thinners? I am. Sometimes even a itty bitty dinky AR15 will leave the diamond shaped bruises on my right shoulder. They go away after a day or two. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 12:02:36 PM EDT
[#16]
what type of rifle ??
an ar15 doesn't have much recoil a 7.62 is another story depending on the firearm |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 4:30:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Do what I did:
I shot the M1 rifle for 40+ years and finally bought my first-ever AR 15 2 years ago. After shooting the M1 rifle/30-'06 cartridge and then switching to the 223, you'll be like "WHAT recoil"? |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 7:20:27 PM EDT
[#18]
16” carbine length 50 Beowulf has a nice thump to it.
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Posted: 2/26/2023 2:58:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryThose do recoil. |
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Posted: 2/27/2023 9:33:13 AM EDT
[#20]
I vividly remember watching someone shoot a M60 spread leg with the recoil being absorbed by the jewels. If the OP is getting shoulder bruising from a 5.56 AR15 I think there might be an underlying medical condition that requires the attention of a physician. Seriously. Not being flippant.
Unless you're shooting 1000 rounds at a time I can't even begin to imagine bruising from 5.56 AR15 recoil. I routinely shoot 300-500 rounds (like 1-3x a week) and never, ever, have any shoulder related discomfort during or after. The worst that can happen is a slightly sore nose (I shoot NTCH) and that is if I manage to scrap it during an "up rifle" training evolution. Maybe try loosening your grip or laying a kitchen towel over your shoulder (chef style) to add a layer of cushion between you and the butt plate.   Image credit: google search. |
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Posted: 3/7/2023 3:24:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Hey guys, just want to knock a couple things out off the bat, yes I should stop being a pussy, yes I should go to a doctor, yes I should try shooting a M14 like everyone and their brother did when I was still a sperm cell. However, while my first paragraph is all true enough I’d like to get the thoughts of some more experienced than I. I’ve been trying to shoot without letting the gun move and maintain better control. But I’m pulling it into my shoulder so hard that it’s causing bruising. Am I pulling too hard or is this how it’s supposed to be? I will say that even with my current level of tension on the weapon it still is not super controlled when I fire it. Thank you in advance for any insight. After reading every single response here (a lot of great advice) I find myself thinking, wow could anybody else miss the point of the OP more? So many comments about "handling the recoil" etc from the perspective of how "powerful" the recoil is. Not a single response that addresses the root of his question. It's not about how "intense" the recoil is. He's not getting bruises from the recoil, he's getting bruises because he's pulling the rifle into his shoulder too hard. But he's doing that because he's trying to reduce the muzzle movement during recoil. Not because it's overpowering him. The best way to reduce muzzle movement during follow up shots is to add a muzzle device designed to do that. You can try to brute force it, but it won't work as well as a well designed muzzle brake. Now, you may not want a muzzle brake if don't want the added back-blast. If not, you're going to have to learn to shoot with some muzzle movement and learn to accept that. But truth is, if you're looking for the control pair with little or no movement in the muzzle, it's going to take a brake. You can tweak the gas/buffer etc, but that only reduces the reciprocating mass. You're still going to be fighting the muzzle rise a little. But with all that said, there isn't really a need to control the muzzle THAT extensively unless you are thinking competition shooting. As long as you're hitting your targets, you should be fine. |
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Posted: 3/9/2023 8:11:53 AM EDT
[#22]
What muzzle device is on your rifle?
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Posted: 4/8/2023 10:40:20 AM EDT
[#23]
I was once told the amount of pressure into the pocket should be no greater than the weight of the rifle. 8lb rifle - = approx 8lbs pressure into shoulder.
Sounds like you're being a bit rough on yourself. Maybe use some shooting bags until you get over the initial shock factor and get more comfortable with the rifle. Sounds as though you're a bit timid behind your AR at this point. No harm no foul, no ill will intended. Shoot more, worry less |
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Posted: 4/8/2023 11:22:10 AM EDT
[#24]
What type of rifle and caliber?
What shooting position? Bench? Standing? Prone? Kneeling? Sitting? What type of support? Bipod, tripod, bags, shooting rest, no support? Sling support? How much are you shooting in a single session? What distance and what size target? Iron sights or optic? Magnification? Answer these questions and we can help with better technique answers. ?? |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:46:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Get a .22LR. Almost zero recoil.
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Posted: 5/26/2023 8:08:40 AM EDT
[#26]
Shoot AR from flat spot inside of your shoulder muscles and move shoulder forward slightly with your elbow down. This will make a nice flat spot on your outer pectoral to place the stock. Do not try to put the stock into any space between muscle groups or on your collar bone. If this suddenly feels too low, lean forward at the waist while trying to look down sights and eventually you will have a good shooting platform. All you need after that is a slight inward pull of rifle with your off hand, no more than 4-5 pounds tension, to shoot with less muzzle movement. You will NEVER be able to remove ALL the recoil movement. Focus on keeping it reduced and your reticle moving almost only vertically. You should be able to get 0.20 splits at 7 yards with 90-100% A zone hits, then move to 10, then to 15. Keep splits under 0.25 seconds. Keep A zone hits at 80% or better. Good luck.
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Posted: 5/26/2023 9:35:26 AM EDT
[#27]
M14 are a pleasure to shoot vs a HK 91 with a collapsable stock. Just saying.
 For an AR, I always replace the stock with a Magpul CTR and get the extended butt pad. Makes a world of difference with fit to my frame and extended shooting sessions. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 10:09:59 AM EDT
[#28]
A couple of thoughts came to me after several sessions with my M1A and AR's.
I do not find the recoil of 308 to be all that significant, however after moving around a lot (I shoot out in the woods and have a bit of a hike to get to my range) I end up with a number of small bruises, not directly related to shooting. They are more related to moving around and bumping into things here and there or shifting position and getting a sharp edge where I don't want it (butt stock edges, charging handles, etc). Not sure if that may be relevant to your situation. Are you on any blood thinners? A friend of mine is and has noticed that what used to be a simple bump, now results in a bruise or two. I pretty much only shoot offhand so I hear you in regards to pulling the gun in and getting a firm plant on the shoulder. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 4:00:17 PM EDT
[#29]
I've got a couple different stocks you might find helpful. Ones a bit pricey but you get what you pay for and the other is surprisingly comfortable for the price. I just went and tested a bunch out in our warehouse and if I had the same problem and wanted a comfier stock on a budget, I'd go with this one for sure.
https://www.righttobear.com/b5-systems-bravo-ar-15-mil-spec-stock-blk-brv-1082/ https://www.righttobear.com/magpul-ubr-gen-2-stock-black-mag482-blk/ |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 4:06:48 PM EDT
[#30]
OP, do not compare what you're doing with what competition shooters are doing. They are running hardware specifically designed to keep the gun flat under recoil and minimize it overall. That's not what you have and you will never overcome it just by holding tighter. Relax, keep it snug against your shoulder and let it do its thing. The more you fight it the more you FEEL what it's doing. Lean in a bit, but don't get all tense, you want your body to soak up recoil, not try to resist it entirely.
There are actually competition AR's that recoil downward and you can just rest your hand under them and it balances out. By nature the AR is a pretty neutral recoil so it just moves away from whatever support is up front. Meaning if you are holding it up from the bottom it goes up, full C grip it tries to go right a bit but your fingers are far enough over to neutralize most of that. If you put it against a barricade you have to hold it there or it will bounce away... Special muzzle devices, light BCG's and appropriate spring and buffer changes and lots of practice can make an AR basically sit still under recoil, but it's not usually a setup you'd use outside a competition rig. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 10:42:56 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After reading every single response here (a lot of great advice) I find myself thinking, wow could anybody else miss the point of the OP more? So many comments about "handling the recoil" etc from the perspective of how "powerful" the recoil is. Not a single response that addresses the root of his question. It's not about how "intense" the recoil is. He's not getting bruises from the recoil, he's getting bruises because he's pulling the rifle into his shoulder too hard. But he's doing that because he's trying to reduce the muzzle movement during recoil. Not because it's overpowering him. This! Bingo! He's not getting a recoil bruise. He's jamming the rifle butt back too hard and continuing to press hard into his shoulder muscle. Its his own heavy rearward pressure that's causing the bruise. OP: just lighten up the backward pressure. Just enough to make good solid contact with that pocket between shoulder and collar bone. And loosen the grip a bit, too. Don't try to strangle the stock. |
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Posted: 6/12/2023 5:24:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This! Bingo! He's not getting a recoil bruise. He's jamming the rifle butt back too hard and continuing to press hard into his shoulder muscle. Its his own heavy rearward pressure that's causing the bruise. OP: just lighten up the backward pressure. Just enough to make good solid contact with that pocket between shoulder and collar bone. And loosen the grip a bit, too. Don't try to strangle the stock. Fair enough to call everyone out. Your point is legit, but I just don't see a person harming themselves enough to cause bruises, so I believe the general presumption is that its really the hold position or recoil that is actually causing the bruising. That said, the advice given to lighten up the pressure enough to make a good contact is good advice. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 2:00:26 AM EDT
[#33]
"Passive" muscle tension. In Bullseye Pistol I was taught to squeeze hard until I shook, then back off. Just enough to give the trigger finger a good anchor to press against without disturbing the sight picture. Some of the idea is that if the fingers are already gripping, they're less likely to have a sympathetic twitch.
With rifle, just enough tension to dampen the wobble and keep the buttplate from slipping. Body position affects most of the off target recoil direction. "Passive" muscle tension helps the rifle go back into battery on target. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 12:47:37 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryI heard they used to teach shooting off the chin in the military when using a gas mask. I guess a soldier couldn't see too well with old style masks so they held the rifle in front of their face with butt against their chin. I don't think it applies to AR15s since they don't have any recoil, but I read an article by some gun writer where he said to try eliminate flinch in heavier recoiling long guns by thinking of shooting like hitting a baseball, where the crack and vibration of hitting the ball was a sign of a good hit. |
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