Shooting a carbine/pistol without sights..

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Shooting a carbine/pistol without sights..

Posted: 1/31/2020 1:29:55 AM EDT

Right now on one of my ARs (10.5") I'm running just a Vortex Sparc AR II without backup sights. I was just curious, how confident are people in their shooting ability If you don't have back up sights and your optic dies/fails? Haven't really tried it but would think it wouldn't be too hard at reasonable ranges?

Posted: 1/31/2020 4:25:00 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Right now on one of my ARs (10.5") I'm running just a Vortex Sparc AR II without backup sights. I was just curious, how confident are people in their shooting ability If you don't have back up sights and your optic dies/fails? Haven't really tried it but would think it wouldn't be too hard at reasonable ranges?

View Quote

It's not too hard to point something on your rail at the target, note barrel offset and try to eyeball some compensation. If your rail is clean than just use the rail. Or even a barrel or just get a general feel for where the rifle is pointing, obviously what I'm referring to would really only work well up close.

Posted: 1/31/2020 8:36:53 AM EDT

[#2]

It depends on your target and how far you are shooting. Something like a USPSA target at 3-4 yards, is a pretty much point and shoot and get an A/C hits with a pistol. Same target with a carbine at 10 yds, you get two hits sighting down the gun or through a optic not working.

Now to knock over a 6” plate at 50 yds with a PCC you need your optic working. I never use back up sights on anything, I find sights annoying on a pistol with optics, I’m faster without sights and just optics.

Posted: 1/31/2020 8:48:37 AM EDT

[#3]

At room distance you will be fine shooting through the tube (dead or broken optic).

Next time you're at the range turn your optic off and shoot through the optic. Start at 5 meters and move back in 5 meter increments tell your aren't making consistent hits.
Then you can see where your skill level is and distances you're comfortable shooting at.

Posted: 1/31/2020 8:57:31 AM EDT

[#4]

I haven't tried it, but it should be pretty easy for you to take it to a range and see how accurate your setup would be.

you'd be minute of man out to 100' i would guess without any real effort.

but then again, I've seen men at the range with a pistols and rifles who miss the entire silhouette at 20'

Posted: 1/31/2020 11:57:30 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Haven't really tried it but would think it wouldn't be too hard at reasonable ranges?

View Quote

Really try it and let us know.

Posted: 1/31/2020 1:03:08 PM EDT

[#6]

An SAS buddy could repeatedly hit steel at 50 yards by pushing out an MP5 without a stock from a sling at chin level.

It was not even a effort for him.

Posted: 1/31/2020 1:07:38 PM EDT

[#7]

i think it is worthwhile to go to the range and mess around with it. It’s not like you will lose anything by trying it. I bet the accuracy will surprise you

Posted: 2/1/2020 1:02:52 AM EDT

[#8]

When I was shooting TacOps in 3-Gun and couldn’t run a secondary optic, I would just rotate the rifle 45° to the left and use the muzzle like a shotgun rib. That’s enough precision for Alphas to seven-ish meters and it’s fast.

Posted: 2/1/2020 1:07:12 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
When I was shooting TacOps in 3-Gun and couldn't run a secondary optic, I would just rotate the rifle 45 to the left and use the muzzle like a shotgun rib. That's enough precision for Alphas to seven-ish meters and it's fast.

View Quote

This. Give it a try and you'll be surprised at how well it works. If you're using a thumb forward grip on the rail it becomes fairly intuitive fairly quickly. Point your thumb at the target and you're going to be damn close.

Posted: 2/2/2020 3:16:09 PM EDT

[#10]

You'd probably be OK at in your home distances. I think a lot of people couldn't hit a target at 25 yards without a sight though.

Posted: 2/2/2020 6:44:14 PM EDT

[#11]

Easy enough to get proficient enough to hit pie plates at 15 yards or so, or center-of-mass on full silhouettes at 20-25 yards just takes practice.

Posted: 2/13/2020 4:31:18 PM EDT

[#12]

Can you explain the rotation part?

Posted: 2/13/2020 7:26:07 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Can you explain the rotation part?

View Quote

Not sure what's confusing about this...

hold rifle.
Roll it towards your centerline
look down the side of the rifle

This is what it looks like with sights

3-Gun Nation: Rapid Transition Sight (RTS) with Barry Dueck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCmItUbFZCE

Posted: 2/13/2020 7:59:10 PM EDT

[#14]

I can drive a city block with my eyes closed.

Posted: 2/14/2020 3:07:09 AM EDT

[#15]

I have seen cops miss headshots WITH a front BUIS deployed looking over the rear sight instead of through it while under stress at 15 yards. If you are in your own home you can hit inside 20 feet but past that things go downhill quickly.

Posted: 2/16/2020 3:53:06 PM EDT

[#16]

There is a group of guys that I regularly train with and we practice point shooting a lot. The general consensus of our group is that 7-10 yards is the point where pistol shooting needs sights. With a rifle, it's 15-20 yards. Inside of those ranges, a practiced shooter can reliably hit a 9" target by point shooting.

Obviously, you can get hits point shooting beyond these ranges, but you will usually start missing a lot.

Posted: 2/16/2020 3:56:55 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
I can drive a city block with my eyes closed.

View Quote

Bird Box challenge? Lol

Posted: 2/16/2020 4:39:03 PM EDT

[#18]

The ONE TIME the buzzer went off and I shouldered the rifle for the stage and didn't turn on the Aimpoint....

I just shot through the ring and got all the hits, luckily it was a short range hoser bay stage.

I have fixed. fukin. buis. Didn't even cross my mind at the time.

Posted: 2/19/2020 1:38:59 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Next time you're at the range turn your optic off and shoot through the optic. Start at 5 meters and move back in 5 meter increments tell your aren't making consistent hits.
Then you can see where your skill level is and distances you're comfortable shooting at.

View Quote

Take that distance and cut it in half.

That will give you a more accurate idea of how you'll perform under stress. And then add in movement, and cut that second distance again.

Doing something like this is fairly easy on a one-way range, in good lighting.

Posted: 2/19/2020 4:30:46 PM EDT

[#20]

If you have a front sight you could use the unlit optic as a huge peep sight but without a front sight might be tough beyond several yards. But hey, you probably have 30 round mags. Keep pulling the trigger!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Shooting a carbine/pistol without sights..

AR-15 » Optics, Mounts, and Sights

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