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Posted: 9/18/2018 8:49:05 PM EDT
[#1]
WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?
Many reasons for standard ball like M193... mostly that it's cheap. And effective. |
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Posted: 9/18/2018 9:22:57 PM EDT
[#2]
As long as the bullet remains above a particular velocity, M193 ball is devastating. While remaining at or above 2700 fps won’t guarantee that the bullet will fragment and/or tumble, it WILL do enough damage to slow the bad guy down enough to give you a better chance to hit him again...and maybe again. Unless you don’t need to - this is a nasty round at ranges up to 100 yards from a 16” barrel, and close to that from a shorter barrel.
So saying ball rounds aren’t “real bullets” isn’t a valid statement. And saying “SBR” without stating what barrel length you are talking about is too vague to answer. M193 should be at around 3,000 fps out of a 14.5” barrel (+/- depending on the particular maker of the round). You should stay over 2,700 fps to between 50 and 75 yards with this barrel. That will keep it within iron sight tolerances at that range, and it will do amazing damage. Link to horrific pictures of ball ammunition’s wounding capacity. This RifleShooter article documents Hornady’s SBR-specific defensive round’s performance, both in terms of velocity in short barrels and in how it does in FBI-spec testing. If that’s the kind of thing you are really asking about, read and enjoy. |
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Posted: 9/18/2018 9:52:36 PM EDT
[#3]
XM193 is real bullets. The terminal performance of it has been documented time and time again to lethal, especially at close distances. Sure, if you're trying to off someone at 200 yards or greater you might see diminished performance, but other than that XM193 is incredible for what you pay for it.
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Posted: 9/18/2018 9:58:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Barnes tsx rounds are supposed to expand out to 1800fps. From my 12.5 inch pistol, it should be around 2700 fps to 2600 fps. Using Barnes vor-tx 5.56 70gr the projectile should expand out to 325 yards. Possibly 350 yards.
Now how much it will expand idk. Here is a great velocity database for SBRs and lots of loads. Just throw the data into a calculator and compare a bullets threshold for expansion/fragmentation https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Suppressed-5-56-SBR-Velocity-Tests-41-Factory-Loads-from-10-5-11-5-12-5-and-14-5-ALL-DONE-/16-714088/ |
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Posted: 9/18/2018 10:07:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Last time I checked, XM193 is a real bullet. It's effective and battle proven.
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Posted: 9/18/2018 11:07:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Both M193 and M855 were designed to be shot through 20in barrels. From shorter than 20in barrels you cut effectiveness down.
I would never take either into combat even though I have. Not by choice when there are so many bullet choices out there that are not as velocity dependant. Things like 75-77gr BTHP, 62-75gr bonded soft points like Speer Gold Dot and all copper designs like 70gr TSX from Barnes. Leave ball for the square bay and training use. |
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Posted: 9/18/2018 11:11:12 PM EDT
[#7]
And at what store do you by your m855a1?
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Posted: 9/18/2018 11:40:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And at what store do you by your m855a1? |
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Posted: 9/18/2018 11:42:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
I have read these discussion for a while everytime effective range on a SBR is brought up people goto this 2700 fps fragmentation thing. Why, who the hell uses ball rounds for self defence and LOE use when you have MK310 MOD 0 AND MK318 MOD1 AND M855A1 OR SOLID COPPER HOLLOW POINTS OR SOFT POINT. I want to ask those out there who have used a 10.3 SBR in action with one of the two Marine rounds or the new Army round and what did they get for effect. My time in the Corps was different and now as a LOE using a 10.5 SBR i would like to know peoples experiance. I know from Hornady the 75 grain NATO T2 TAP round perform as desinged from 2200 fps and up and works lile a hollow point from there down to 1800 fps. I as whats wrong with that? Semper Fi. |
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Posted: 9/18/2018 11:58:22 PM EDT
[#10]
In general I agree that a lot of talk is unnecessarily centered around the effective range of ball ammo, when current offerings offer significantly better frag/expansion range. Still, at realistic ranges 193 absolutely fucks shit up, and is probably the best (or at least one of the best) value defensive ammo out there.
^This coming from a guy with TMKs loaded in his bedside Mk18. |
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Posted: 9/20/2018 5:03:28 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As long as the bullet remains above a particular velocity, M193 ball is devastating. While remaining at or above 2700 fps won’t guarantee that the bullet will fragment and/or tumble, it WILL do enough damage to slow the bad guy down enough to give you a better chance to hit him again...and maybe again. Unless you don’t need to - this is a nasty round at ranges up to 100 yards from a 16” barrel, and close to that from a shorter barrel. So saying ball rounds aren’t “real bullets” isn’t a valid statement. And saying “SBR” without stating what barrel length you are talking about is too vague to answer. M193 should be at around 3,000 fps out of a 14.5” barrel (+/- depending on the particular maker of the round). You should stay over 2,700 fps to between 50 and 75 yards with this barrel. That will keep it within iron sight tolerances at that range, and it will do amazing damage. Link to horrific pictures of ball ammunition’s wounding capacity. This RifleShooter article documents Hornady’s SBR-specific defensive round’s performance, both in terms of velocity in short barrels and in how it does in FBI-spec testing. If that’s the kind of thing you are really asking about, read and enjoy. 
That looks as bad or worse then shotgun wounds. Whenever ignorant people say the 5.56 isn’t effective I will show them this for now on. |
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Posted: 9/20/2018 5:09:47 PM EDT
[#12]
To the OP, 5.56 is a rifle round no need to overthink ammo choice. Just place the rounds where they need to go and it will do the job.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 4:24:15 AM EDT
[#13]
Federal Fusion has been shown in gel tests to expand at 1700fps.
From this test, we know that Fusion MSR clocks 2,530fps from a 10.5" barrel: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Suppressed-5-56-SBR-Velocity-Tests-41-Factory-Loads-from-10-5-11-5-12-5-and-14-5-ALL-DONE-/16-714088/ Federal list the Fusion as .31 G1 BC. 62gr G1 BC .31 @ 2,530FPS = 1,706fps @ 320 yards. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:33:43 AM EDT
[#14]
Your question, translated so it doesn’t offend the MILSURP crowd, clarified and de-capitalized so you aren’t yelling:
What is the max effective range of a 10.3” SBR using soft tip/OTM rounds instead of ball? I won’t pretend to know the answer. However, I would wager that when you reduce your reliance on fragmentation to achieve lethality, rounds will probably remain effective well beyond the range of practical defensive and LEO applications. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:56:29 AM EDT
[#15]
I agree that there are better rounds than ball for defense, particularly when you factor in the reduced MV you should expect from a really short barrel. And I probably overreacted to the ALL CAPS and what seemed to be poorly thought out title of the thread.
If we simply phrase the OP’s question as Texsylvanian did, with a specific barrel length and civilian, self-defense-type rounds, we can profide a much more intelligent answer. Much of what he seems to be looking for is in the Ammunition Forum’s first “resource”: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo, particularly the section written by Dr. Roberts on the wounding mechanisms of different types of bullet designs. Reading this very well written, very authoritative section will provide plenty of information to chew on when selecting a round. It is also important to keep in mind that ANY accurate round is better than ANY “super-duper, shreds stuff like a limb chipper” hype-marketed round that isn’t particularly accurate in your rifle. And accuracy is a function of all three parts of the “marksmanship system”: the ammunition, the rifle, and the rifleman. A round that is extremely accurate from a rest but is hard for you to keep on target off-hand is not a good choice for anything but benchrest competitions. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 12:16:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is also important to keep in mind that ANY accurate round is better than ANY “super-duper, shreds stuff like a limb chipper” hype-marketed round that isn’t particularly accurate in your rifle. And accuracy is a function of all three parts of the “marksmanship system”: the ammunition, the rifle, and the rifleman. A round that is extremely accurate from a rest but is hard for you to keep on target off-hand is not a good choice for anything but benchrest competitions. Very true and the reason why I can’t fall in love with MK318. It’s great for wounding but I can get similar performance (e.g. barrier blind and very lethal) from 64 grain gold dots and have a system that is 1.25 MOA vs 2.75 MOA from MK318. The Speer is ten cents cheaper per round as a bonus. Of the 500 MK318 I bought I just have the remaining 460 just lying around. I could not group it below 2.75 MOA in any of my barrels (Novekse, BCM, spikes). I think the OP would be well served with bonded soft tips. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 12:20:58 PM EDT
[#17]
A couple hundred yards at least.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:06:54 PM EDT
[#18]
It is my first post in 9 years and Im not yelling. let me clear some things up.
I stated in my original post the SBR barrels mentioned are 10.3 and 10.5 Yes M193 is a real bullet and getting shot by anything would suck. I did not mean to get into any ones feeling. I carried a M16A2 and a M60 in the marines so the SBR thing is new to me and the only thing Ive killed with my SBR is a Bobcat. I have killed deer and coyotes with my 14.5 and 18 inch barreled 556 rifles where you can hunt with then and used Hornady 75 grain T2 NATO TAP or the Hornady 70 Grain gmx bullets and they WORKED. There is no way a M193 would be as effective as they are. I am basing my bullet choice on dead deer and coyotes and not ballistic gel and guesses. I like facts if Im going to hunt and kill something or use as a LEO a weapon and or round that might save my life and others. As I said in my original post, if someone out there has used a reliable, accurate and terminal effective bullet in a SBR (10.3 and 10.5) please share it with me. thank you out there for answering and SEMPER FI. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:13:07 PM EDT
[#19]
TSX is my go-to for short barrels. Haven't ventured into the Federal Fusions yet, but that are supposed to be fantastic as well.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:18:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Federal Fusion has been shown in gel tests to expand at 1700fps. From this test, we know that Fusion MSR clocks 2,530fps from a 10.5" barrel: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Suppressed-5-56-SBR-Velocity-Tests-41-Factory-Loads-from-10-5-11-5-12-5-and-14-5-ALL-DONE-/16-714088/ Federal list the Fusion as .31 G1 BC. 62gr G1 BC .31 @ 2,530FPS = 1,706fps @ 320 yards. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 3:40:47 PM EDT
[#21]
It was not clear that you were specifically referring to one or the other length, so I wasn’t sure what length you were actually interested in.
If you’re talking about hunting experience, you’ve probably answered your own questions as far as performance goes, and you’re looking for more specific rounds and their effective ranges. With short barrels, you probably want to stick with medium-weight bullets, rather than the 77+ grain bullets because they’ll drop a lot less than the heavier bullets, given the velocity limits inherent in a 10-ish inch barrel. Velocity difference between a 10.3” and 10.5” barrel will be minimal, so there isn’t a practical difference as far as effective range. I’d look strongly at Federal’s Gold Medal Sierra Matchking load, with the 69grain BTHP bullet. Even out of a 10” barrel, it should remain at a useful velocity out past 200 yards with an acceptable drop. Of course you’d want to test this particular product in your own weapon to verify that it shoots the way you need it to, and then evaluate its performance. I’m usually immune to “posting etiquette” issues, but for some reason the stuff I replied about got to me. No offense intended. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 3:58:15 PM EDT
[#22]
Are you open to other calibers better suited to SBRs?
I have used this round from an 8" barrel on several hogs and deer with great results. Reliable expansion down to 1300fps. 
6.8SPC or 6.5G will get you more range, but with slightly reduced capacity. I currently hunt with an 11" 6.8SPC SBR. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 4:02:39 PM EDT
[#23]
I have 30 fake bullets in my rifle. I will fake the fuck out of a motherfucker.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 5:17:58 PM EDT
[#24]
For CQB stuff (inside 50 meters or so) 193 is devastating. If I get into contact at extended distances I am laying down suppressive fire and breaking contact. Fantasy I know, but that’s what I would do especially if alone.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 5:28:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for this post. Have been torn on the 11.5 vs 10.3 for a bit, nice to see that a 10.3 with soft point ammo is still capable of expanding out to some nice distances. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Federal Fusion has been shown in gel tests to expand at 1700fps. From this test, we know that Fusion MSR clocks 2,530fps from a 10.5" barrel: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Suppressed-5-56-SBR-Velocity-Tests-41-Factory-Loads-from-10-5-11-5-12-5-and-14-5-ALL-DONE-/16-714088/ Federal list the Fusion as .31 G1 BC. 62gr G1 BC .31 @ 2,530FPS = 1,706fps @ 320 yards. The MSR from an 11.5" is 2611fps = 1702fps @ 350 yards. So you get an extra 30 yards by going to 11.5," which is pretty minimal. A bigger question would be what the flash, blast, and reliability/weapon life is with 10.5" vs 11.5"? That, I have no idea. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 5:37:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glad to help. The MSR from an 11.5" is 2611fps = 1702fps @ 350 yards. So you get an extra 30 yards by going to 11.5," which is pretty minimal. A bigger question would be what the flash, blast, and reliability/weapon life is with 10.5" vs 11.5"? That, I have no idea. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Federal Fusion has been shown in gel tests to expand at 1700fps. From this test, we know that Fusion MSR clocks 2,530fps from a 10.5" barrel: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Suppressed-5-56-SBR-Velocity-Tests-41-Factory-Loads-from-10-5-11-5-12-5-and-14-5-ALL-DONE-/16-714088/ Federal list the Fusion as .31 G1 BC. 62gr G1 BC .31 @ 2,530FPS = 1,706fps @ 320 yards. The MSR from an 11.5" is 2611fps = 1702fps @ 350 yards. So you get an extra 30 yards by going to 11.5," which is pretty minimal. A bigger question would be what the flash, blast, and reliability/weapon life is with 10.5" vs 11.5"? That, I have no idea. My current 10.3 setup is currently sporting the LMT Enhanced BCG and Geissele coiled spring to help combat this and so far I've experienced no reliability issues (Short stroking, double feeds, failure to lock back, etc). |
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Posted: 9/22/2018 7:41:29 AM EDT
[#27]
I've shot m193 out of a mk18 at approx 300 yards. Was getting a 6 inch groups and ringing steel no problem. I was getting like a foot and a half of drop though, quite a bit more than the ppl shooting a 16" barrel.
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Posted: 9/22/2018 3:18:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As I said in my original post, if someone out there has used a reliable, accurate and terminal effective bullet in a SBR (10.3 and 10.5) please share it with me. thank you out there for answering and SEMPER FI. that being said TMKs get shit done on short barrels as well as long barrels |
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Posted: 9/22/2018 4:00:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Topic Moved
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Posted: 9/22/2018 6:21:03 PM EDT
[#30]
+1
Made my day???? |
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Posted: 9/22/2018 6:22:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Well done sir. Sustained!
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Posted: 9/22/2018 7:28:56 PM EDT
[#32]
You can't define "effective" as fps. It's whether the targets ceases flight AND fight - by however many foot pounds of force needed to reliably achieve it.
One standard wrapped in the mists of dogma has been 1,000 foot pounds of force, which 5.56 from a 10.x barrel is about 80m. However, that is still favorable in terms of force compared to a handgun, bow, or atlatl, which are all considered legal against North American whitetail. How far down the power curve do we go and where do we draw a line saying "this isn't effective?" In meters, using 5.56 from a 10.x barrel? |
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Posted: 9/22/2018 11:18:19 PM EDT
[#33]
My understanding is that you are wanting to use a SBR for a LEO/defensive roll and looking for the best ammo. I'd suggest just getting a soft point round, like used for hunting and calling it good. They are designed to expand at 100+ yards from a 20" barrel and from what I interpret you using the carbine at you'll be within 25 yards. The velocity lost by barrel length should be more than compensated by the short distance.
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Posted: 9/23/2018 12:39:41 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glad to help.The MSR from an 11.5" is 2611fps = 1702fps @ 350 yards. So you get an extra 30 yards by going to 11.5," which is pretty minimal.A bigger question would be what the flash, blast, and reliability/weapon life is with 10.5" vs 11.5"? That, I have no idea. |
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Posted: 9/23/2018 1:41:42 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How did you arrive at that velocity at that yardage? Have you actually chronographed it at that distance? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Glad to help.The MSR from an 11.5" is 2611fps = 1702fps @ 350 yards. So you get an extra 30 yards by going to 11.5," which is pretty minimal.A bigger question would be what the flash, blast, and reliability/weapon life is with 10.5" vs 11.5"? That, I have no idea. I plugged the data into JBM Ballistics and the resulting table shows fps at whatever range with whatever interval you wish. While it's "theoretical", I'm willing to bet it's pretty close. YMMV, as always. |
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Posted: 9/23/2018 2:31:29 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Without looking, I believe that's the data from my 41 load thread. No I did not chrono the round @ 350yds. I plugged the data into JBM Ballistics and the resulting table shows fps at whatever range with whatever interval you wish. While it's "theoretical", I'm willing to bet it's pretty close. YMMV, as always. |
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Posted: 9/23/2018 5:46:46 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And at what store do you by your m855a1? |
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Posted: 9/23/2018 8:30:57 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?
Many reasons for standard ball like M193... mostly that it's cheap. And effective. |
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Posted: 9/23/2018 2:36:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Based on my real world data on other gold dot products, its nowhere even close. PS: MSR is loaded hotter than GD. |
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Posted: 9/23/2018 2:47:41 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so effective, no major military uses it for anything other than training. |
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Posted: 9/23/2018 9:02:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Based on my real world data on other gold dot products, its nowhere even close. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Without looking, I believe that's the data from my 41 load thread. No I did not chrono the round @ 350yds. I plugged the data into JBM Ballistics and the resulting table shows fps at whatever range with whatever interval you wish. While it's "theoretical", I'm willing to bet it's pretty close. YMMV, as always. |
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Posted: 9/23/2018 10:48:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is my first post in 9 years and Im not yelling. let me clear some things up. I stated in my original post the SBR barrels mentioned are 10.3 and 10.5 Yes M193 is a real bullet and getting shot by anything would suck. I did not mean to get into any ones feeling. I carried a M16A2 and a M60 in the marines so the SBR thing is new to me and the only thing Ive killed with my SBR is a Bobcat. I have killed deer and coyotes with my 14.5 and 18 inch barreled 556 rifles where you can hunt with then and used Hornady 75 grain T2 NATO TAP or the Hornady 70 Grain gmx bullets and they WORKED. There is no way a M193 would be as effective as they are. I am basing my bullet choice on dead deer and coyotes and not ballistic gel and guesses. I like facts if Im going to hunt and kill something or use as a LEO a weapon and or round that might save my life and others. As I said in my original post, if someone out there has used a reliable, accurate and terminal effective bullet in a SBR (10.3 and 10.5) please share it with me. thank you out there for answering and SEMPER FI. That said, training and tactics will always be more important than the bullets coming from your rifle. Understanding the limits of what you’re carrying and adapting to changing situations will serve you far better than chasing a magic bullet that you can only afford to shoot a few hundred of every year. |
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Posted: 9/23/2018 10:54:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Barnes tsx rounds are supposed to expand out to 1800fps. From my 12.5 inch pistol, it should be around 2700 fps to 2600 fps. Using Barnes vor-tx 5.56 70gr the projectile should expand out to 325 yards. Possibly 350 yards. Now how much it will expand idk.Here is a great velocity database for SBRs and lots of loads. Just throw the data into a calculator and compare a bullets threshold for expansion/fragmentation https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Suppressed-5-56-SBR-Velocity-Tests-41-Factory-Loads-from-10-5-11-5-12-5-and-14-5-ALL-DONE-/16-714088/ |
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Posted: 9/23/2018 11:37:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In God we trust, all others post data. Mine is public, is yours? Care to link it in this thread? PS: MSR is loaded hotter than GD. Ever wonder why the bc of 64gr gold dot was 0.27 and your 62gr gold dot is over .3, and the 75gr gold dot is neck and neck with 77gr TMK with a polymer tip, relying all on "box data"? I did. It led down a rabbit hole. |
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Posted: 9/23/2018 11:54:56 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How did you arrive at that velocity at that yardage? Have you actually chronographed it at that distance? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Glad to help.The MSR from an 11.5" is 2611fps = 1702fps @ 350 yards. So you get an extra 30 yards by going to 11.5," which is pretty minimal.A bigger question would be what the flash, blast, and reliability/weapon life is with 10.5" vs 11.5"? That, I have no idea. https://youtu.be/otou1Fws4cQ?t=2m28s Federal lists the G1 BC of the Fusion as .310: https://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle/fusion/fusion-rifle/f223fs1 I then used the starting velocity of 2,611fps of the Fusion MSR 11.5" from the 41 load SBR Velocity thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Suppressed-5-56-SBR-Velocity-Tests-41-Factory-Loads-from-10-5-11-5-12-5-and-14-5-ALL-DONE-/16-714088/?page=1 Then I plugged those numbers into the Berger ballistic calculator: http://www.bergerbullets.com/ballistics/ |
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Posted: 9/24/2018 12:14:49 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1700fps expansion for the Fusion is based on this gel test: https://youtu.be/otou1Fws4cQ?t=2m28s Federal lists the G1 BC of the Fusion as .310: https://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle/fusion/fusion-rifle/f223fs1 I then used the starting velocity of 2,611fps of the Fusion MSR 11.5" from the 41 load SBR Velocity thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Suppressed-5-56-SBR-Velocity-Tests-41-Factory-Loads-from-10-5-11-5-12-5-and-14-5-ALL-DONE-/16-714088/?page=1 Then I plugged those numbers into the Berger ballistic calculator: http://www.bergerbullets.com/ballistics/ Before you call BS, ask yourself how Speer figured out how to make a soft point bullet of 75gr weight with lead core have a BC within 0.02 g1 of a 77gr polymer tipped match bullet? (77 TMK)? Ask yourself how when they went from the 64gr gold dot to the 62gr gold dot they managed to go from 0.27 to 0.31bc g1? Their BC data listed is absurd. |
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Posted: 9/24/2018 3:34:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so effective, no major military uses it for anything other than training. |
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Posted: 9/24/2018 10:06:12 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just because newer better stuff has come about as time went on doesn't mean the old stuff stopped working. Sure, you should probably shell out the money for really nice ammo for whatever rifle you plan to keep as a go-to gun. But it's hard to argue with what M193 brings to the table for $0.25/round. |
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Posted: 9/24/2018 5:58:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The data out is only as good as the data in. I'm simply saying....dig deeper than what's on the box. I think you'll be surprised. Federal gets their BC data from a bingo wheel, is my opinion. Real world data from my sources are showing their 75gr gold dot is around 0.280 g1. They advertise it as 0.4. If you want actual data, you're going to have to get it from Bryan Litz or dope it yourself. Real data does not come from the side of a box, or catalogue, no matter how much one wishes it were so. Before you call BS, ask yourself how Speer figured out how to make a soft point bullet of 75gr weight with lead core have a BC within 0.02 g1 of a 77gr polymer tipped match bullet? (77 TMK)? Ask yourself how when they went from the 64gr gold dot to the 62gr gold dot they managed to go from 0.27 to 0.31bc g1? Their BC data listed is absurd. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: 1700fps expansion for the Fusion is based on this gel test: https://youtu.be/otou1Fws4cQ?t=2m28s Federal lists the G1 BC of the Fusion as .310: https://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle/fusion/fusion-rifle/f223fs1 I then used the starting velocity of 2,611fps of the Fusion MSR 11.5" from the 41 load SBR Velocity thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Suppressed-5-56-SBR-Velocity-Tests-41-Factory-Loads-from-10-5-11-5-12-5-and-14-5-ALL-DONE-/16-714088/?page=1 Then I plugged those numbers into the Berger ballistic calculator: http://www.bergerbullets.com/ballistics/ Before you call BS, ask yourself how Speer figured out how to make a soft point bullet of 75gr weight with lead core have a BC within 0.02 g1 of a 77gr polymer tipped match bullet? (77 TMK)? Ask yourself how when they went from the 64gr gold dot to the 62gr gold dot they managed to go from 0.27 to 0.31bc g1? Their BC data listed is absurd. Now, that being said, that doesn't seem to have that drastic an effect on overall expansion range. At 0.31 bc, the 62gr @2630fps was 1700fps/350yards At 0.27 BC @ 2630fps, 1700fps/310 yards At a 0.25 Bc @ 2630fps, 1700fps/290 yards So, you do lose 40-60 yards, which sucks, but its not radically different in terms of effective expansion range. |
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Posted: 9/25/2018 12:57:31 PM EDT
[#50]
Any suggestions on a good load to use for a 10.3" barrel for hog and deer? Max distance on the deer is about 70 yards, hog is anywhere from 20 yards to 200 yards.
I'm thinking maybe the fusion msr from federal? Have a bunch of 75 and 64gr from speer as well. Also can reload, maybe grab some of the speer bullets they're selling and load to 5.56 pressures instead of 223. |
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