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Posted: 1/25/2020 5:52:32 PM EDT
I was initially excited to see Robinson starting production of the M96 again... but it turns out they're only doing 200 of them.
 Robinson Arms Bringing Back the Stoner 63 [SHOT Show 2020] |
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Posted: 1/25/2020 6:17:18 PM EDT
[#1]
I wonder if replacement parts will be available then. I’d like to have another barrel. Maybe a different stock setup for mine. |
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Posted: 1/25/2020 7:18:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Only 200? What a bunch of jerks.
...how much? 
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Posted: 1/25/2020 7:20:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only 200? What a bunch of jerks. ...how much? |
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Posted: 1/25/2020 7:30:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Robinson told John Farnam he was bringing them back because they were so popular. Pfffft.
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Posted: 1/25/2020 7:35:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Apparently $2400-$3400 depending on the variant... which is why this this sort of rubs me the wrong way—you can get the older ones for that if I remember correctly. 
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Posted: 1/25/2020 11:06:10 PM EDT
[#6]
I can't find their website.....
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Posted: 1/25/2020 11:13:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Apparently $2400-$3400 depending on the variant... which is why this this sort of rubs me the wrong way—you can get the older ones for that if I remember correctly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Only 200? What a bunch of jerks. ...how much? 
With the BRN-180 and PSAs JAKL here and coming, that’s rich. |
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Posted: 1/25/2020 11:22:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Is this the same Robinson Arms that after selling the M96 they later pulled support for the rifle? Sure, I guess you can't support a discontinued rifle forever, but now they say that they had "most of the parts for 200 rifles".
I bet there's a couple of guys that could have used those parts... I sold mine years ago and it worked fine for the time I had it. I was happy to sell it to a gentleman that was one of the Marines that used Stoners in Vietnam. I hope he still uses and enjoys it. I'm sure they'll sell all of the new M96's, but it won't be to me... |
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Posted: 1/26/2020 12:20:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Too bad the barrels are still post-ban.
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Posted: 1/26/2020 4:04:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this the same Robinson Arms that after selling the M96 they later pulled support for the rifle? Sure, I guess you can't support a discontinued rifle forever, but now they say that they had "most of the parts for 200 rifles". I bet there's a couple of guys that could have used those parts... I sold mine years ago and it worked fine for the time I had it. I was happy to sell it to a gentleman that was one of the Marines that used Stoners in Vietnam. I hope he still uses and enjoys it. I'm sure they'll sell all of the new M96's, but it won't be to me... Not sure what the problem is with doing a production run of 500 + units since everything is done in house except for the chrome lining. |
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Posted: 1/26/2020 4:08:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What a scummy way to run a business. As much as I like the M96, that will be a hard pass Alex. I do not do business with companies that do not support their own product. Not sure what the problem is with doing a production run of 500 + units since everything is done in house except for the chrome lining. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is this the same Robinson Arms that after selling the M96 they later pulled support for the rifle? Sure, I guess you can't support a discontinued rifle forever, but now they say that they had "most of the parts for 200 rifles". I bet there's a couple of guys that could have used those parts... I sold mine years ago and it worked fine for the time I had it. I was happy to sell it to a gentleman that was one of the Marines that used Stoners in Vietnam. I hope he still uses and enjoys it. I'm sure they'll sell all of the new M96's, but it won't be to me... Not sure what the problem is with doing a production run of 500 + units since everything is done in house except for the chrome lining. |
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Posted: 1/26/2020 5:39:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What a scummy way to run a business. As much as I like the M96, that will be a hard pass Alex. I do not do business with companies that do not support their own product. Not sure what the problem is with doing a production run of 500 + units since everything is done in house except for the chrome lining. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is this the same Robinson Arms that after selling the M96 they later pulled support for the rifle? Sure, I guess you can't support a discontinued rifle forever, but now they say that they had "most of the parts for 200 rifles". I bet there's a couple of guys that could have used those parts... I sold mine years ago and it worked fine for the time I had it. I was happy to sell it to a gentleman that was one of the Marines that used Stoners in Vietnam. I hope he still uses and enjoys it. I'm sure they'll sell all of the new M96's, but it won't be to me... Not sure what the problem is with doing a production run of 500 + units since everything is done in house except for the chrome lining. |
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Posted: 1/26/2020 5:41:52 PM EDT
[#13]
He'd get my money if he would make a belt fed semi Stoner LMG.
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Posted: 1/26/2020 5:49:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Bummer...
It just doesn't seem that Robinson is doing well. I'm glad to see more being made but the price puts it out of my reach...I'm PO!!! So I'll just have to continue to slum it with my AR180. |
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Posted: 1/26/2020 5:58:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He'd get my money if he would make a belt fed semi Stoner LMG. |
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Posted: 1/26/2020 6:03:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Sucks they aren't making more.
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Posted: 1/26/2020 6:38:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He'd get my money if he would make a belt fed |
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Posted: 1/26/2020 6:56:23 PM EDT
[#18]
can anyone give me good link to their website? I binged it without success. I have an M96 and would like to see if they will sell me a part...Bill
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Posted: 1/26/2020 7:14:43 PM EDT
[#19]
never mind, I finally found it. I have the M96 rifle and the Bren conversion. One of the initial problems with the rifle, besides the bolt problem, was the barrel coming loose while shooting. I learned about a fix that Robinson had come up with, a stronger spring, so I contacted them to get one. They didn't have any and basically implied they didn't care if my barrel came loose...Bill
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Posted: 1/26/2020 8:18:44 PM EDT
[#20]
And that right there is yet another reason to never buy anything from them!
I have an M96 but it’s the longer barrel expeditionary and would love to get a recon length from them but can’t. It’s an occasional shooter novelty because I’m afraid of breaking parts and not being able to get replacements. Sure Kel Tec and Hi points are pieces of junk but they stand by their much less expensive products. No, I don’t own a Hi Point but do hear good things about them as a company at least. |
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Posted: 1/27/2020 9:51:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this the same Robinson Arms that after selling the M96 they later pulled support for the rifle? Sure, I guess you can't support a discontinued rifle forever, but now they say that they had "most of the parts for 200 rifles". I bet there's a couple of guys that could have used those parts... I sold mine years ago and it worked fine for the time I had it. I was happy to sell it to a gentleman that was one of the Marines that used Stoners in Vietnam. I hope he still uses and enjoys it. I'm sure they'll sell all of the new M96's, but it won't be to me... 
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Posted: 1/27/2020 10:30:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Total BS:
“…over the last couple of weeks we have gone through our warehouse and found that we only need a couple more parts to complete about 200 models. When those 200 models are complete and our preorder is completed on our robarm .com we’ll be able to ship these out.” They see the popularity of retro rifles, they’re doing a limited run to see how hot the water is. |
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Posted: 1/27/2020 10:34:41 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Total BS: “…over the last couple of weeks we have gone through our warehouse and found that we only need a couple more parts to complete about 200 models. When those 200 models are complete and our preorder is completed on our robarm.com we’ll be able to ship these out.” They see the popularity of retro rifles, they’re doing a limited run to see how hot the water is. |
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Posted: 1/27/2020 8:43:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Total BS: “…over the last couple of weeks we have gone through our warehouse and found that we only need a couple more parts to complete about 200 models. When those 200 models are complete and our preorder is completed on our robarm .com we’ll be able to ship these out.” They see the popularity of retro rifles, they’re doing a limited run to see how hot the water is. If it sells slow they arent in too deep- as Robinson said these are existing parts for the most part which means sunk cost and they have to invest very little relatively speaking to get live guns ready to sell. If it sells really well and they move quickly they can always make more- there is no market competition as no one is set up to make Stoner 63 clones except for Robinson, amd they will have made close to half a million to help get larger production off the ground. A small batch is the smart play from Robinson’s business perspective. [eta] I am not saying that robinson should have abandoned support years ago when people needed parts snd they obviously still had them. One of the reasons I dont have an M96 is total lack of support for them. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 1/27/2020 9:18:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not saying that robinson should have abandoned support years ago when people needed parts snd they obviously still had them. One of the reasons I dont have an M96 is total lack of support for them.
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Posted: 1/27/2020 9:33:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would seem, even with this pending batch, the risk of non-support still exists. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I am not saying that robinson should have abandoned support years ago when people needed parts snd they obviously still had them. One of the reasons I dont have an M96 is total lack of support for them. |
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Posted: 1/27/2020 11:51:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He'd get my money if he would make a belt fed semi Stoner LMG. |
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Posted: 1/28/2020 11:23:59 AM EDT
[#28]
It is amazing how Alex has reemerged to piss off the gun community once again. He has done a good job of laying low, but this appears to be backfiring in his face. I was hoping for new made barrels, but I'm not sure that is going to happen. As for the beltfed conversion, Alex said years ago that it would cost an exorbitant amount to get it built. I watched the video and was not sure if the BREN conversion is a complete rifle or a barrel assembly. For the cost of $3,500 I would hope it is a complete rifle. As for for scummy business practices, the gun industry is unfortunately filled with charlatans and scumbags who over promise, lie, and never deliver.
Alex Robinson is the Melvin Johnson of our era. |
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Posted: 1/28/2020 7:50:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, At $2400+ I think a limited run is entirely appropriate. If it sells slow they arent in too deep- as Robinson said these are existing parts for the most part which means sunk cost and they have to invest very little relatively speaking to get live guns ready to sell. If it sells really well and they move quickly they can always make more- there is no market competition as no one is set up to make Stoner 63 clones except for Robinson, amd they will have made close to half a million to help get larger production off the ground. A small batch is the smart play from Robinson’s business perspective. [eta] I am not saying that robinson should have abandoned support years ago when people needed parts snd they obviously still had them. One of the reasons I dont have an M96 is total lack of support for them. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 1/28/2020 9:42:44 PM EDT
[#30]
if they had enough parts left to build 200 rifles, they could have provided me with the upgraded spring so the barrel wouldn't come loose while shooting. They don't seem to give crap about their customers, they just want to get something out the door. |
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Posted: 1/28/2020 9:52:15 PM EDT
[#31]
2bnag, The Stoner nested two progressively smaller springs inside the barrel retainer spring. That may help retain the barrel better. I never took the pin out of my M96 to see if it was straight or tapered (it's gone now). The Stoner's barrel retaining pin was slightly tapered (as was the corresponding hole in the extension). I know this helped with smooth and faster locking engagement. It is alleged to have helped with accuracy. I wonder if it helped eliminate barrel launching as well.
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Posted: 1/28/2020 10:00:46 PM EDT
[#32]
my M96 just has a single spring...Bill
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Posted: 1/29/2020 12:07:45 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It’d be a lot cooler if you did some products for them...... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Yup, At $2400+ I think a limited run is entirely appropriate. If it sells slow they arent in too deep- as Robinson said these are existing parts for the most part which means sunk cost and they have to invest very little relatively speaking to get live guns ready to sell. If it sells really well and they move quickly they can always make more- there is no market competition as no one is set up to make Stoner 63 clones except for Robinson, amd they will have made close to half a million to help get larger production off the ground. A small batch is the smart play from Robinson’s business perspective. [eta] I am not saying that robinson should have abandoned support years ago when people needed parts snd they obviously still had them. One of the reasons I dont have an M96 is total lack of support for them. Sven Manticore Arms You mean design guns for Robinson? Or make aftermarket parts for the M96? I don't think either of those are likely to happen...we are more likely to just reinvent the Stoner 63A on our own at some point before I retire in the next 30 years... Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 1/29/2020 12:10:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if they had enough parts left to build 200 rifles, they could have provided me with the upgraded spring so the barrel wouldn't come loose while shooting. They don't seem to give crap about their customers, they just want to get something out the door. You can get all sorts of springs at www.mcmaster.com - take the current spring out, measure the uncompressed length, thickness of the wire, and outside diameter of the spring. Heck if you can post those dimensions and a picture of the spring (I assume the ends are "closed and ground" I can even help you figure out what springs to get at Mcmaster. We use them as a source for various springs, I am very familiar with springs in general, and know the selection pretty well. You just need a similarly sized spring with a higher spring rate and that should solve your problem. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 1/29/2020 7:08:04 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @DirtDivision You mean design guns for Robinson? Or make aftermarket parts for the M96? I don't think either of those are likely to happen...we are more likely to just reinvent the Stoner 63A on our own at some point before I retire in the next 30 years... Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 1/29/2020 3:07:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @DirtDivision You mean design guns for Robinson? Or make aftermarket parts for the M96? I don't think either of those are likely to happen...we are more likely to just reinvent the Stoner 63A on our own at some point before I retire in the next 30 years... Sven Manticore Arms 
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Posted: 1/29/2020 3:22:24 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @2bnag You can get all sorts of springs at www.mcmaster.com - take the current spring out, measure the uncompressed length, thickness of the wire, and outside diameter of the spring. Heck if you can post those dimensions and a picture of the spring (I assume the ends are "closed and ground" I can even help you figure out what springs to get at Mcmaster. We use them as a source for various springs, I am very familiar with springs in general, and know the selection pretty well. You just need a similarly sized spring with a higher spring rate and that should solve your problem. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 1/29/2020 5:28:12 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: @DirtDivision You mean design guns for Robinson? Or make aftermarket parts for the M96? I don't think either of those are likely to happen...we are more likely to just reinvent the Stoner 63A on our own at some point before I retire in the next 30 years... Sven Manticore Arms 
I knew that was coming. I have a lot of projects booked up for OEM work, let me make my way through those and then we can look at some internal projects. It would totally be a flight of fancy, and it wouldn't be easy, but it would be fun as hell to make a 63A clone, especially with BELT FEED and maybe I can pull some strings to get into the KAC museum to see the innards of one in person. 
Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 1/29/2020 7:12:30 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I knew that was coming. I have a lot of projects booked up for OEM work, let me make my way through those and then we can look at some internal projects. It would totally be a flight of fancy, and it wouldn't be easy, but it would be fun as hell to make a 63A clone, especially with BELT FEED and maybe I can pull some strings to get into the KAC museum to see the innards of one in person.
Sven Manticore Arms Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: @DirtDivision You mean design guns for Robinson? Or make aftermarket parts for the M96? I don't think either of those are likely to happen...we are more likely to just reinvent the Stoner 63A on our own at some point before I retire in the next 30 years... Sven Manticore Arms
I knew that was coming. I have a lot of projects booked up for OEM work, let me make my way through those and then we can look at some internal projects. It would totally be a flight of fancy, and it wouldn't be easy, but it would be fun as hell to make a 63A clone, especially with BELT FEED and maybe I can pull some strings to get into the KAC museum to see the innards of one in person.
Sven Manticore Arms 
My grail gun. |
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Posted: 1/30/2020 12:12:15 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @2bnag You can get all sorts of springs at www.mcmaster.com - take the current spring out, measure the uncompressed length, thickness of the wire, and outside diameter of the spring. Heck if you can post those dimensions and a picture of the spring (I assume the ends are "closed and ground" I can even help you figure out what springs to get at Mcmaster. We use them as a source for various springs, I am very familiar with springs in general, and know the selection pretty well. You just need a similarly sized spring with a higher spring rate and that should solve your problem. Sven Manticore Arms 
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Posted: 1/30/2020 12:52:52 AM EDT
[#41]
got this email from Robarm:
"Bill, We have all the inventory scattered all over our shop floor assessing what we need to make/buy to complete guns and make all necessary parts. I’m sure I’ve already seen the new button levers and springs. We’ll post some information on our website in about 5 weeks. We will be able to fix your barrel problem. Sincerely, RA Technical Team" |
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Posted: 1/30/2020 1:21:49 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
got this email from Robarm: "Bill, We have all the inventory scattered all over our shop floor assessing what we need to make/buy to complete guns and make all necessary parts. I’m sure I’ve already seen the new button levers and springs. We’ll post some information on our website in about 5 weeks. We will be able to fix your barrel problem. Sincerely, RA Technical Team" |
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Posted: 1/30/2020 7:40:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Didn't realize that the M96 barrel retaining spring was set up like that. The nested triple spring Stoner 63 set up won't work with it (not without modifications). Two completely different types of springs (torsion vs. coil). Sorry.
I'm not an engineer, but I have a theory based upon that photo as to why the barrels sometimes launch. |
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Posted: 1/30/2020 7:28:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't realize that the M96 barrel retaining spring was set up like that. The nested triple spring Stoner 63 set up won't work with it (not without modifications). Two completely different types of springs (torsion vs. coil). Sorry. I'm not an engineer, but I have a theory based upon that photo as to why the barrels sometimes launch. |
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Posted: 1/30/2020 8:54:29 PM EDT
[#45]
I think it has something to do with the inline nature of the receiver/barrel and torsion spring (as opposed to the perpendicular relationship of the three nested coil springs of the Stoner 63) and the general weakness of the spring. My mechanical engineer /gun manufacturer / genius friend politely mocked me for never having done a free body diagram, some shite about physics, I'm probably wrong......I dunno.
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Posted: 1/30/2020 10:24:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it has something to do with the inline nature of the receiver/barrel and torsion spring (as opposed to the perpendicular relationship of the three nested coil springs of the Stoner 63) and the general weakness of the spring. My mechanical engineer /gun manufacturer / genius friend politely mocked me for never having done a free body diagram, some shite about physics, I'm probably wrong......I dunno. 
The issue with a torsion spring verse the nested compression spring is mainly a matter of sufficient lever arm and pressure to resist the opening force. The nested springs can give a stepped increase of spring pressure as the lever is further depressed whereas the single torsion spring will give you a linear pressure. I always wondered if the M96 barrel launch problem was not also due to some gas blow by in the barrel extension thus lifting the locking pin from the extension but having not even handled a M96 I have never really investigated it. I always assumed it was made the same as my Stoner 63a but from the picture its obvious that is not he case. |
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Posted: 1/31/2020 8:42:32 AM EDT
[#47]
I'm certain whoever said it to me meant it in the most complimentary manner possible
I don't have any original design notes for the 63, but in addition to strength, I assumed the three nested coil springs assisted supporting one another to help keep the largest one from bending while compressing. |
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Posted: 2/8/2020 2:02:41 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The diameter of the wire is 0.054". The spring diameter is 0.340" . See the picture for more. I make it to have 7 1/2 turns...Billhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/489699/small_pic-1255348.jpg The barrels were lanching down range do to owners not making sure it was locked in before firing it( early barrel/gas system), the new gas system that came with the chrome lined barrels fixed this. Robinson's website that was updated on 02/03/2020 says the price of a Recon or rifle length(20 inch barrel) is going to be $2495.00 and the Topfeed will be $3995.00. The Topfeed kit will be $1495.00(I paid $700.00 back in 2003, it was from the 2nd and last run of 50 kits). Says they will be selling spare parts, if they do I will be buying some. And more than just the Stoner 63 buttstock will fit on the M96. |
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Posted: 2/8/2020 9:41:26 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ..we are more likely to just reinvent the Stoner 63A on our own at some point before I retire in the next 30 years... Sven Manticore Arms Although if it takes you 30-years, at my age I'll probably be dead by then, so..... |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 9:01:22 AM EDT
[#50]
Well, I put my name (and preferences) on the RA M96 waiting list. Also listed all the spares I could think of that I wanted. We'll see....
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