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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
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Posted: 12/11/2020 11:50:24 PM EDT
My uncle has had a Colt Match H-Bar for like 20 years, never an issue. The only complaint he's ever had was how horrible the trigger was. I told him with ALL the options available today there's no way he should have a reason to keep complaining about the stock trigger. So he picked up and installed a Rise Armament Rave 140. (The reviews on them were pretty positive.) Dry fire function tested it after install, safety and reset works. During live fire it will fire the chambered round but won't fire the next. It ejects the spent case and chambers the next but will not fire again. He manually ejects the live round, loads it back into mag and manually chambers it again, same thing, fires that round, cycles and trigger is dead. He repeated this several times, it will not fire the second round. He pulled BCG and inspected everything and confirmed everything is the way it's supposed to be.

It will reset trigger while hand cycling but not live fire. He also tried two different trusted mags.

I asked him to do something out of the norm just out of curiosity. It's NOT safe practice and I'm sure some here will complain but it's not necessary. I asked him to do it again but not to manually eject the live round and VERY CAUTIOUSLY open the receiver to visually inspect whether the hammer is cocked or not. The hammer was in the fired position.

I know he needs to call the manufacturer and we tried but it was today (Friday) and five minutes after 5pm so they're probably closed till Monday.

Does anyone have a reasonable explanation as to what could be causing this?
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 1:47:16 AM EDT
[#1]
My friend just built a AR and used a rise armament trigger. He had the same issue the disconnector wouldn’t release the hammer. He emailed Rise Armament and they emailed him a picture showing where he should use a file to remove some material on the hammer. After he did that he hasn’t had anymore problems.
Edit: found a picture, basically you just remove the sharp edge at the angle of the red line on the hammer in the pic. Just take a few swipes with a fine file or sharpening stone and test it out.
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 3:27:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My friend just built a AR and used a rise armament trigger. He had the same issue the disconnector wouldn’t release the hammer. He emailed Rise Armament and they emailed him a picture showing where he should use a file to remove some material on the hammer. After he did that he hasn’t had anymore problems.
View Quote

I'm not sure these would be same issue. My uncle's rifle's hammer appears to be riding the carrier back to the fired position when cycling during just live fire. It cocks and stays back when hand cycling.

Could you explain a bit more how these two issues are the same. Maybe I'm missing it.
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 3:52:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I'm not sure these would be same issue. My uncle's rifle's hammer appears to be riding the carrier back to the fired position when cycling during just live fire. It cocks and stays back when hand cycling.
Could you explain a bit more how these two issues are the same. Maybe I'm missing it.
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View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
My friend just built a AR and used a rise armament trigger. He had the same issue the disconnector wouldn’t release the hammer. He emailed Rise Armament and they emailed him a picture showing where he should use a file to remove some material on the hammer. After he did that he hasn’t had anymore problems.

I'm not sure these would be same issue. My uncle's rifle's hammer appears to be riding the carrier back to the fired position when cycling during just live fire. It cocks and stays back when hand cycling.
Could you explain a bit more how these two issues are the same. Maybe I'm missing it.

Does your uncle know for sure the hammer is riding the bolt? Search Rise Armament trigger not resetting it appears to be pretty common. It makes the trigger feel dead.
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 4:03:41 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 9:52:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Does your uncle know for sure the hammer is riding the bolt? Search Rise Armament trigger not resetting it appears to be pretty common. It makes the trigger feel dead.
View Quote

Yea we're noticing these complaints now.

The hammer is in the fired position after the rifle cycles. Dead trigger.
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 11:27:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Deleted
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 11:29:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Problem is the older colt receivers used the .174 FCG, and would dare that when he got the new trigger group, bought it in .154" pin size for most of the other receivers o the market and is the problem at hand.  

Hence with the FCG installed in the .174" receiver channel size pins, and even the group  set bolts tightened to hold it up tight to the pins, the FCG will be too high in the lower.

So on the colt receiver (including the SP-1 receivers), if the lower has the Sear block that stick up above the top of receiver, the receiver uses a .174" colt pin FCG (top photo).  When colt went to the internal sear block (lower photo), this is when they switch back to the standard .154" since FCG.
So again, will bank that the problem is that he installed a .154" Fcg and pins, in a .174" lower channel pin size.
https://i.imgur.com/Dcv84.jpg

As for installing the correct pin size FCG with it correct sized pins to fit the lower receiver pin channel sizes, the FCG has set screws that you have to tighten to push the FCG tight up on the pins to the correct height, via the floor void captivity of the receiver.


2:50 on the below video is intial tightening the set screws, and need to go back and retighten the set screws once the new pins have been reinstalled

https://youtu.be/SUCPJouZSrg?list=PLLJtno1G4CHg9ILKLBnAmrM_-uDv75CYz



View Quote

" />

The Rave 140 doesn't have set screws like many cassette type triggers, like their RA-140 SST, it has springs on the bottom to put opposing tension in the pins.
Link Posted: 12/13/2020 1:39:47 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 12/13/2020 2:01:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Even with springs instead of set screws, if a .154" FCG and pins, are mounted in a .174" pin size lower receiver, going to have problems.
View Quote
I did this once, forgot I had a large pin lower, gun wouldn't pass function test.  I bought an Elftmann large pin drop in for it.  Works very well.

It really helps when I wear my up close glasses for things.
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 3:16:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I did this once, forgot I had a large pin lower, gun wouldn't pass function test.  I bought an Elftmann large pin drop in for it.  Works very well.

It really helps when I wear my up close glasses for things.
View Quote

They were the correct pin size.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 5:13:47 AM EDT
[#11]
It's on its was back to Rise.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 8:50:26 PM EDT
[#12]
I have two buddies that each bought a Rise trigger and had same issue as you.  They were put in newer lowers and it wasn't a pin size issue.  I stay away from Rise Armament.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 6:00:18 AM EDT
[#13]
I have two of these triggers. Not many rounds with either one but it's been good so far.

If I would have known ahead of time I wouldn't have bought them.
Link Posted: 12/22/2020 12:52:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 12/27/2020 9:51:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here is what I don't get, and since the FCG is self contained in its own housing, just too easy to function test is out side the rifle to see if it working correctly or not from the start.  If it will not pass a function test of it own, needs to go back.


But if it does pass a function test on its own, then what part of the install to the lower receiver is wrong and causing the problem instead.
View Quote

First post was clear that it passed function test but wouldn't reset.

Contacted Rise, sent back.

Update: He got a New replacement, installed today, it works now.
Link Posted: 12/27/2020 10:23:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Getting ready to change into someone more comfortable. Name changes coming.
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 2:10:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Don't know if the same problem exists with the newer RA as it did / does with the older 140. The metal housing / body of the assembly is not compatible with some AR makes; the DPMS Oracle is one and there are others. Naturally, they blame the gun. I had this issue with my Oracle. Any other assembly from "mil-spec" to other aftermarkets fit just fine. Removing a couple of millimeters of material from a particular spot on the front of the housing solved the issue. They've known of the problem forever. Wouldn't doubt it if the spec for the housing remained the same. There were actually 2 issues regarding the trigger in this linked thread. Hopefully I have linked to page 5. Scroll down a bit past the halfway mark and the issue I'm referring to will be apparent. Rise Armament Trigger Issue
Link Posted: 12/29/2020 2:48:07 AM EDT
[#18]
It baffles me how some triggers require the disconnecter to be timed.

This is 2020.
Link Posted: 12/29/2020 8:31:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Passing a function check by hand is not the same as function checking with the upper on it. It is possible to push the hammer down further by hand than the carrier will push it down when it cycles.
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The rifle was fully assembled during dry-fire function test.
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