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Posted: 12/10/2016 2:34:47 AM EDT
[#1]
Even though there is much hatred toward BATFE and it is automatically assumed they hate guns and gun owners, I find it amazing they approved the SIG brace and the Shockwave brace for pistols without needing reclassified as NFA weapons. That is a huge deal in my opinion. Apparently BATFE either does not hate guns and owners as much as was thought and/or they actually follow the law as written.
Hopefully people will stop "poking the bear" so much with these constant inquiries to ATF regarding pistol stocks and such, unless submitting a new design for testing, evaluation and classification. Eventually ATF will tire of the thousand questions and will just come out and say any stock sticking off the back of the "pistol" behind the firing hand makes it an NFA item. They already reversed themselves on shouldering the SIG brace because of so many idio....... I mean people writing in and asking if its OK to shoulder the brace. Hopefully they don't reverse themselves on the approval of the braces as shooting aids. |
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Posted: 12/25/2016 2:08:17 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 12/25/2016 2:07:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PiccoloPlayer:
http://i.imgur.com/qRBYISW.jpg http://i.imgur.com/0Cs1mi2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8BO93MA.png If this is for real (I have my doubts as to the authenticity) then this clearly is an example of "poking the bear" which will eventually lead us to losing the "brace" classification. People should shut the hell up and be thankful and just shoot these damn pistols. |
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Posted: 12/26/2016 12:31:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Guntoter:
If this is for real (I have my doubts as to the authenticity) then this clearly is an example of "poking the bear" which will eventually lead us to losing the "brace" classification. People should shut the hell up and be thankful and just shoot these damn pistols. Supposedly from one of our own. 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2017 8:48:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PineappleDevil:
http://i62.tinypic.com/2cht9he.jpg http://i62.tinypic.com/10z76uq.jpg Download link: Here Rock6... I carry a copy of this letter with my "pistol" as I shoot it from the shoulder... I have a clarification question to BATFE at this time (4 months) in an allied concern...the pistol was just a trial platform for the LAW folding stock adapter, as the KAK tube put me nose to charging handle by itself.... hopefully with the adults in charge, thing may change |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2017 9:52:57 PM EDT
[#6]
https://www.sb-tactical.com/blog/sb-tactical-announces-reversal-atf-open-letter-use-sb-tactical-pistol-stabilizing-braces/
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USA
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Posted: 4/25/2017 2:13:58 AM EDT
[#7]
"Reversal letter" holy shit way to jump the gun SBT.
Archive link so we can laugh later when the inevitable "reversal" comes back: http://archive.is/abuwb |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:55:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ploki:
https://www.sb-tactical.com/blog/sb-tactical-announces-reversal-atf-open-letter-use-sb-tactical-pistol-stabilizing-braces/ 
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2017 3:33:29 PM EDT
[#9]
The link to the cane tip letter doesn't work for me. Anybody got a fresh link? Thanks in advance.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/28/2017 3:08:53 PM EDT
[#10]
https://imgur.com/a/GI1pp
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USA
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Posted: 10/9/2017 10:40:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BwAlAhA:
https://imgur.com/a/GI1pp |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2017 3:28:51 AM EDT
[#12]
The ATF has it WRONG in this letter. They are jumbling up policy/procedure. If you had a 6" barrel but a 15" hand guard, by this letter, they would be measuring to the end of the barrel and not the 9+ inches of protruding hand guard (think suppressor under hand guard.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2017 11:24:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bigjunk1]
[#13]
This is in regards to the above response and issued after The freedom shop raid? 
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USA
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Posted: 6/1/2018 3:31:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cationgun]
[#14]
Edit: Removing this until we see some sort of official verification somewhere. Skepticism all over the place.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/1/2018 11:31:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: willi3d]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cationgun:
https://i.imgur.com/bj8tP2k.png saw that over on mdshooters board no official verification yet, they said they got it from reddit and the threads i found showed that it was leaked(?) from a letter pertaining to something else which explains why it was cropped we'll see what happens.  However, I do find interesting the mention of devices submitted and approved the the ATF, which may leave “braces” that haven’t been submitted and approved at risk. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/4/2018 4:49:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cationgun:
https://i.imgur.com/bj8tP2k.png saw that over on mdshooters board no official verification yet, they said they got it from reddit and the threads i found showed that it was leaked(?) from a letter pertaining to something else which explains why it was cropped we'll see what happens. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/10/2018 5:59:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JmE]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cationgun:
saw that over on mdshooters board no official verification yet, they said they got it from reddit and the threads i found showed that it was leaked(?) from a letter pertaining to something else which explains why it was cropped we'll see what happens. Purported separate letter to Heston Kent with identical language The other Reddit thread started by "leakingftw" |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/30/2018 10:26:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By majorcollins: The actual letter: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/MBSB-1.jpg http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/MBSB-2.jpg http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/MBSB-3.jpg |
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USA
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Posted: 7/26/2018 5:30:11 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cationgun:
Edit: Removing this until we see some sort of official verification somewhere. Skepticism all over the place. Letter to Heston Kent I did not notice that you edited your post until now. Good find, BTW, and thanks for posting it. 
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Posted: 9/21/2018 3:09:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JeepinCO]
[#20]
I don't know if anyone has a better copy, this was the best I could do. This is concerning what a vertical foregrip is.
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Posted: 1/4/2019 7:15:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Guntoter: If this is for real (I have my doubts as to the authenticity) then this clearly is an example of "poking the bear" which will eventually lead us to losing the "brace" classification. People should shut the hell up and be thankful and just shoot these damn pistols. |
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Posted: 1/11/2019 1:29:42 AM EDT
[#22]
In regards to the 13.5" LOP, page 2&3.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 2/18/2019 2:45:54 AM EDT
[#23]
Does anyone have information regarding the ATF official stance on a carbine buffer tube attached to a pistol? The SBA3 brace comes with a carbine buffer tube with multiple positions.
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/10/2019 7:59:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Did you ever get the letter back from the ATF regarding the BCM vertical forward grip (that is actually angled?) I am curious to know. Thanks
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MT, USA
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Posted: 5/8/2019 3:42:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Only one person in this thread has mentioned the second to last paragraph in the "reversal" letter that says the following:
"...Similarly, an item that functions as a stock if attached to a handgun in a manner that serves the objective purpose of allowing the firearm to be fired from the shoulder may result in "making" a short-barreled rifle, even if the attachment is not permanent. See, Revenue Ruling 61-45. The fact that the item may allow, or even be intended by its manufacturer for other lawful purposes, does not affect the NFA analysis." And then the comment that adds more sinister confusion to this paragraphs TOTAL contradiction to the so-called 'reversal' part of the letter, they say, "Again, to the extent the Open Letter was confusing, we appreciate the opportunity to clarify our position. Thank you..." Marvin Richardson, "Assistant Director, Enforcement Programs and Services" is not the chief of the technology branch, where the letters usually come from. TO me (put your tinfoil hats on), this seems like a rouse. It appears that this enforcement programs and services guy is answering a question that's meant for the chief technology branch. So is his letter as authoritative as the others we use and carry with our 'questionable' firearms? Perhaps that second to last paragraph is making a distinction between "making" a short-barreled rifle because someone altered a brace or other 'accessory' regardless of if its temporary or permanent - and the "redisigning" language used earlier in that same letter as they clarified that shouldering is not the same as "making" or otherwise changing the intended design. We know that you can't mess with the brace in any way. But what if you extended it to its maximum length and in doing so, the adjustment lever pin breaks or something else happens to it that allows it to slide further out on the buffer tube (exceeding 13.5 LOP) and it now looks like it's been 'redesigned' as a shoulder stock and therefore, you have "made" an SBR? Crazy, anyway, could that paragraph be a trap or is it more easily interpreted than I and the other dude in this thread have noticed??? |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/23/2019 10:20:05 PM EDT
[#26]
I FEEL that it is purposely ambiguous which isnt a good thing. It’s as if they are trying to say two different things with the same letter.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2019 12:05:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JaycenR]
[#27]
You're talking to idiots. I can run down to the local shop by my house and purchases stripped, unmarked receivers with no issue. Just purchase online and be done with it. You can get a great Anderson Manufacturing stripped lower for around $34.00 on primaryarms.com
**EDIT** - Oops, didn't think about state laws. My bad. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2019 1:36:05 PM EDT
[#28]
I don't think it's an attempt to entrap anyone. I think it's a bunch of bureaucrats trying hard to stick to some poorly defined laws while also trying not to stomp on your freedoms.
Based on the letters I've seen, Congress owns most of the blame for agreeing to modify our inalienable rights while failing to carefully define all the terms of the discussion. Notice the ATF constantly states that Congress has not defined "concealable". That's freaking huge. That means it has to be fought out in court cases at the expense, life, and time of individuals who get hassled by the cops who became cops so they could enact their fantasies of domination and control in the real world. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2019 1:49:00 PM EDT
[#29]
I'm firing off a letter to Area ATF office for my state (MO). I'll post a scan of the response should I receive one.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2019 4:18:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JaycenR:
I'm firing off a letter to Area ATF office for my state (MO). I'll post a scan of the response should I receive one. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/22/2019 7:52:08 PM EDT
[#31]
'splains why I haven't received a response to my query...other than an automated reply
"Your email will be answered in the order it was received. Thank you, Firearms & Ammunition Technology Division. " |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 8/14/2019 2:53:35 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pat_H: Please stop stating over and over again your fear of a rogue federal agency. We get it, you're afraid. |
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Posted: 6/25/2020 11:45:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TaylorSwiftsCat]
[#33]
I tried to consolidate the letters in this thread if anyone wants a somewhat "organized" grouping.
 Dropbox link for ATF letters regarding AR pistols |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 12:17:07 PM EDT
[#34]
LINK to latest ATF rulemaking proposal. Not sure who in this thread I'd send it to, so just providing the link.
The perfidy in this proposal is stunning, as anyone who's familiar with their previous ping-pong guidance (and seen the letter evidence from them) knows. Give it a read - really. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/8/2021 11:02:30 AM EDT
[#35]
All of this is trumped by ATF form 4999 that sets the criteria for legal brace or not. Dropped yesterday. Public has 90 days to comment.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 11/9/2021 10:30:20 AM EDT
[#36]
May as well not waste time on these letters. The ATF changes their views on a whim. There's literally no validity to previous precedence.
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USA
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Posted: 11/13/2021 3:04:47 AM EDT
[#37]
Here is one. Can anyone tell me if it is still kosher to have one of these installed?
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USA
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Posted: 5/1/2023 1:57:13 PM EDT
[#38]
I'm not sure relying on 14 year old letter gets you anywhere. Unfortunately, the ATF writes letters that supercede previous letters all the time.
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2023 2:08:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MikeMSD: I'm not sure relying on 14 year old letter gets you anywhere. Unfortunately, the ATF writes letters that supercede previous letters all the time. Well the post is 2-1/2 years old so hopefully he got it figured out  But, yes, the AFG is still okay if anyone still wonders. And yes, AFT seems to do WTF they want to. |
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