User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
GA, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2023 8:00:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Rare Breed is trying to get the case dismissed for lack of jurisdiction. The ATF is using banking records to establish jurisdiction in the Eastern District if NY. No decision yet.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2023 1:02:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Malum-Prohibitum]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirtyDigz: I haven't seen anything yet except this letter filed in advance of the hearing: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nyed.491328/gov.uscourts.nyed.491328.16.0_1.pdf Here for the court case filings and events: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66761832/united-states-v-rare-breed-triggers-llc/ And also here: https://nitter.pussthecat.org/2aupdates (2Aupdates is a twitter feed put out by Rob Romano, a legal analyst with FPC. You should be reading this feed every day anyway for general 2A related legal news. Nitter is a Twitter proxy that lets you read twitter without having to login to a twitter account and submit to their tracking.) Excellent resources, thank you! Unfortunately, the last one has been shut down, it looks like permanently. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2023 1:07:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Judge Morrison wants to transfer the case out of the Eastern District of New York to one where the parties can agree on personal jurisdiction and venue. She ordered the parties to submit letters by March 29 with districts and by April 1 objecting to the other side's list.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nyed.491328/gov.uscourts.nyed.491328.36.0.pdf |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2023 12:07:41 AM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for the updates boys! I've been looking around trying to keep an eye on things with this case, and highly Appreciate all the current and updated info. 🤘
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2023 8:53:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Pacific Legal Foundation is now representing Rare Breed.
See their letter filed today with the judge. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66761832/38/united-states-v-rare-breed-triggers-llc/ |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2023 3:53:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Apr 4, 2023
MINUTE ENTRY and ORDER. A video status conference was held before Judge Morrison on April 4, 2023. Michael Blume, Joseph Marutollo, and Paulina Stamatelos appeared on behalf of Plaintiff. Caleb Kruckenberg and Steve Simpson appeared on behalf of Defendants. The Court inquired into Defendants' request for an evidentiary hearing in light of Plaintiff's recent submissions bearing on Defendants' motion to dismiss for lack of personal jurisdiction. The Court directed Defendants to file a letter on or before April 5, 2023 at 6:00 p.m. EST informing the Court whether they wish to withdraw their motion to dismiss for lack personal jurisdiction and instead ask the Court to consider only whether this action should be transferred to a new forum. Since issuing that directive, Defendants have so filed 44 . Defendants' motion to dismiss for lack of personal jurisdiction 23 is therefore dismissed without prejudice. The Court shall construe Defendants' responses to the Court's Order to Show Cause 36 as a motion to transfer venue to the Western District of Texas, and Plaintiff's letter briefs its response to Defendants' motion. That motion remains pending. In the meantime, the parties shall proceed to merits discovery. Motions related to discovery may be addressed to Judge Morrison in the first instance. Ordered by Judge Nina R. Morrison on 4/4/2023. (FTR Log #12:02-12:20.) (BC) |
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Posted: 4/5/2023 4:12:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: Apr 4, 2023 MINUTE ENTRY and ORDER. A video status conference was held before Judge Morrison on April 4, 2023. Michael Blume, Joseph Marutollo, and Paulina Stamatelos appeared on behalf of Plaintiff. Caleb Kruckenberg and Steve Simpson appeared on behalf of Defendants. The Court inquired into Defendants' request for an evidentiary hearing in light of Plaintiff's recent submissions bearing on Defendants' motion to dismiss for lack of personal jurisdiction. The Court directed Defendants to file a letter on or before April 5, 2023 at 6:00 p.m. EST informing the Court whether they wish to withdraw their motion to dismiss for lack personal jurisdiction and instead ask the Court to consider only whether this action should be transferred to a new forum. Since issuing that directive, Defendants have so filed 44 . Defendants' motion to dismiss for lack of personal jurisdiction 23 is therefore dismissed without prejudice. The Court shall construe Defendants' responses to the Court's Order to Show Cause 36 as a motion to transfer venue to the Western District of Texas, and Plaintiff's letter briefs its response to Defendants' motion. That motion remains pending. In the meantime, the parties shall proceed to merits discovery. Motions related to discovery may be addressed to Judge Morrison in the first instance. Ordered by Judge Nina R. Morrison on 4/4/2023. (FTR Log #12:02-12:20.) (BC) So, this is good news, right? 
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Posted: 4/13/2023 10:21:46 PM EDT
[#8]
WOT allegegly available $350
Reddit discussion and store link if you want https://old.reddit.com/r/gundeals/comments/12kubrm/parts_wot_wide_open_trigger_34999_shipping/ He also had some a week ago... no reports yet of people actually getting them. https://old.reddit.com/r/gundeals/comments/12drgf6/parts_wot_wide_open_trigger_34999_shipping/?sort=new |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2023 3:35:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DirtyDigz]
[#9]
Case update - RBT's motion to get the case moved to Western district of Texas DENIED:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nyed.491328/gov.uscourts.nyed.491328.48.0.pdf |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2023 3:42:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Regarding the "is it a machine gun" question:
Although the Court reached this conclusion on a TRO posture, Defendants argue in part that the FRT-15 is in fact not a machinegun under relevant statutes and regulations, and that Defendants’ statements about their products do not constitute fraud. The Court has not reached the merits of these claims, and it has scheduled a hearing on the Government’s motion for a preliminary injunction for May 31 and June 1, 2023. In the meantime, while merits discovery and briefing are pending, Defendants have consented to an extension of this Court’s temporary restraining order until June 30, 2023, or until the Court rules on the Government’s motion for a preliminary injunction, whichever is sooner. Repeating for emphasis: The Court has not reached the merits of these claims |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2023 6:46:24 PM EDT
[#11]
DirtyDigz, thank you for posting updates.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2023 6:51:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Well, now we know why they have been door knocking.
The Government informed the Court that, after contacting USPS for its records related to packages that Defendants have sent to New York, ATF agents interviewed the packages’ addressees, several of whom reportedly stated that they purchased FRT- 15s or FRT-15 parts in New York directly from Defendants RBT and RBF. Id. ¶¶ 5- 22, 36. Some of these customers stated that it was necessary to purchase certain replacement parts for the FRT-15 because “reviews online” suggested that those parts “were susceptible to breaking.” |
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Posted: 4/25/2023 8:34:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: Well, now we know why they have been door knocking. The Government informed the Court that, after contacting USPS for its records related to packages that Defendants have sent to New York, ATF agents interviewed the packages’ addressees, several of whom reportedly stated that they purchased FRT- 15s or FRT-15 parts in New York directly from Defendants RBT and RBF. Id. ¶¶ 5- 22, 36. Some of these customers stated that it was necessary to purchase certain replacement parts for the FRT-15 because “reviews online” suggested that those parts “were susceptible to breaking.” And people in states like NY wonder why no one wants to ship or do business with them. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2023 12:27:35 PM EDT
[#14]
More Updates:
04/28/23 - RBT filed a motion to oppose preliminary injunction (would prevent RBT from selling during the entire case): https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nyed.491328/gov.uscourts.nyed.491328.50.0.pdf 05/01/2023 - Looks like a change in the defense attorney(ies)? (filing document not available on courtlistener): MOTION to Withdraw as Attorney by Lawrence Demonico, Kevin Maxwell, Rare Breed Firearms, LLC, Rare Breed Triggers, LLC. (Attachments: # 1 Affidavit, # 2 Affidavit, # 3 Affidavit) (Kruckenberg, Caleb) (Entered: 05/01/2023) You can monitor case events yourselves by visiting the courtlistener page for the case: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66761832/united-states-v-rare-breed-triggers-llc/ |
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Posted: 5/2/2023 1:13:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: If only we were as organized as the Scientology folks, we would file 200,000 individual lawsuits. The ATF would be overwhelmed and surrender, just like the IRS did to the Scientologists (and nobody else has been able to do that to the IRS). The way I remember it, The Dwarf (David Miscavige) walked into IRS HQ, demanded to see The Commissioner without an appointment, and walked out with a religious exemption. It's broadly assumed that the department of espionage, blackmail and dirty tricks had dug up some impressive blackmail material on the IRS Commissioner. |
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Posted: 5/2/2023 1:54:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PepePewPew: The way I remember it, The Dwarf (David Miscavige) walked into IRS HQ, demanded to see The Commissioner without an appointment, and walked out with a religious exemption. It's broadly assumed that the department of espionage, blackmail and dirty tricks had dug up some impressive blackmail material on the IRS Commissioner. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PepePewPew: Originally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: If only we were as organized as the Scientology folks, we would file 200,000 individual lawsuits. The ATF would be overwhelmed and surrender, just like the IRS did to the Scientologists (and nobody else has been able to do that to the IRS). The way I remember it, The Dwarf (David Miscavige) walked into IRS HQ, demanded to see The Commissioner without an appointment, and walked out with a religious exemption. It's broadly assumed that the department of espionage, blackmail and dirty tricks had dug up some impressive blackmail material on the IRS Commissioner. If gun owners were to sue the ATF to the tune of 200K lawsuits, a court would undoubtedly combine them into a single one, somehow. The Scientology lawsuits were different because they were filed against individual IRS employees - not against the IRS in general, as I understand it. |
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Posted: 5/3/2023 10:21:11 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: It was not 200,000 lawsuits... it was around 2,500 lawsuits. The result was that in October 1993, the church and the IRS reached an agreement under which the church discontinued all of its litigation against the IRS and paid $12.5 million to settle a tax debt said to be around a billion dollars. The IRS granted tax exemption to 153 Scientology-related corporate entities with the right to declare subordinate organizations tax-exempt in the future. If gun owners were to sue the ATF to the tune of 200K lawsuits, a court would undoubtedly combine them into a single one, somehow. The Scientology lawsuits were different because they were filed against individual IRS employees - not against the IRS in general, as I understand it. So what you're saying is that we need to file 250,000 lawsuits against all the individual NFA examiners for not approving our form1 machine guns? 
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Posted: 5/3/2023 10:33:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NostalgiaforInfinity: So what you're saying is that we need to file 250,000 lawsuits against all the individual NFA examiners for not approving our form1 machine guns? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NostalgiaforInfinity: Originally Posted By jtb33: It was not 200,000 lawsuits... it was around 2,500 lawsuits. The result was that in October 1993, the church and the IRS reached an agreement under which the church discontinued all of its litigation against the IRS and paid $12.5 million to settle a tax debt said to be around a billion dollars. The IRS granted tax exemption to 153 Scientology-related corporate entities with the right to declare subordinate organizations tax-exempt in the future. If gun owners were to sue the ATF to the tune of 200K lawsuits, a court would undoubtedly combine them into a single one, somehow. The Scientology lawsuits were different because they were filed against individual IRS employees - not against the IRS in general, as I understand it. So what you're saying is that we need to file 250,000 lawsuits against all the individual NFA examiners for not approving our form1 machine guns?  Attached File |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 5/8/2023 2:19:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Uh oh, what's going on here? Is the court ordering more discovery (info on RBT purchases?) but trying to also withhold it from the ATF?:
May 7 2023 - In light of the Government's letter 54, all third-party discovery shall be produced to Assistant United States Attorney Philip DePaul. The Court concludes that this arrangement is less likely to lead to inadvertent production to counsel for the Government in this action than directing third-party discovery to be produced to another United States Attorney's Office. The Government shall immediately contact those parties already served with subpoenas with this order and provide those parties with the information necessary to produce discovery to Mr. DePaul. The Government attorneys and staff assigned to this case shall not have access to any aspect of these third-party production(s) until further order of the Court. Ordered by Judge Nina R. Morrison on 5/7/2023. |
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Posted: 5/9/2023 6:12:05 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirtyDigz: Uh oh, what's going on here? Is the court ordering more discovery (info on RBT purchases?) but trying to also withhold it from the ATF?: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirtyDigz: Uh oh, what's going on here? Is the court ordering more discovery (info on RBT purchases?) but trying to also withhold it from the ATF?: May 7 2023 - In light of the Government's letter 54, all third-party discovery shall be produced to Assistant United States Attorney Philip DePaul. The Court concludes that this arrangement is less likely to lead to inadvertent production to counsel for the Government in this action than directing third-party discovery to be produced to another United States Attorney's Office. The Government shall immediately contact those parties already served with subpoenas with this order and provide those parties with the information necessary to produce discovery to Mr. DePaul. The Government attorneys and staff assigned to this case shall not have access to any aspect of these third-party production(s) until further order of the Court. Ordered by Judge Nina R. Morrison on 5/7/2023. I wouldn't hold my breath. There will be an inadvertent email to the aft with all the info. |
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Posted: 5/9/2023 8:24:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KalmanPhilter]
[#21]
Supposedly ATF in Arizona. There’s a thread on Reddit/NFA, not much info. |
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Posted: 5/10/2023 5:17:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KalmanPhilter:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHhc4byi46wSupposedly ATF in Arizona. There’s a thread on Reddit/NFA, not much info. 'I don't want to be here anymore than you do' - plate carrier guy. Yet, there he is. 
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Posted: 5/10/2023 9:32:13 AM EDT
[#23]
I just watched the video, anyone know if a reputable place selling these currently…?
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Posted: 5/10/2023 10:47:33 AM EDT
[#24]
ATF - "Hi, I'm from the ATF and we are going to question *accuse* you of doing something."
ATF - "Furthermore we are going to attempt to get you into conversation to lie to us" -Me: "Ok, call me with a time and place to meet with my lawyer" ATF - "but you know that saying that make us think you are guilty of something" -Me: "what time and location was that again? Goodbye" This is getting more stupid by the minute. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 12:15:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: choppa8181]
[#25]
so any idea if these wot are legit?
https://wot15.com/products/wot-forced-reset-ar15-trigger any word on alamo 15? are they still available ? |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 12:43:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By choppa8181: so any idea if these wot are legit? https://wot15.com/products/wot-forced-reset-ar15-trigger any word on alamo 15? are they still available ? |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:48:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By choppa8181: so any idea if these wot are legit? https://wot15.com/products/wot-forced-reset-ar15-trigger any word on alamo 15? are they still available ? Welcome fellow gun enthusiast. Nice glowing 1st post. |
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Posted: 5/13/2023 3:30:15 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KalmanPhilter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHhc4byi46wSupposedly ATF in Arizona. There’s a thread on Reddit/NFA, not much info.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/13/2023 9:40:52 AM EDT
[#29]
I did say ‘supposedly’. A knock & talk is part theatre, so props instead of actual PPE isn’t non-functional to the display & interview purpose. If they were expecting countervailing force they’d stack the A team and save miss friendly for the TV softball pitches.
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Posted: 5/15/2023 4:47:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MegaTarsal]
[#30]
Today i Received a nice letter from the alphabet boys via FedEx about supposedly buying "1 or more" frt triggers on ar15.com and to call them to discuss disposal.
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Posted: 5/15/2023 5:11:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MegaTarsal: Today i Received a nice letter from the alphabet boys via FedEx about supposedly buying "1 or more" frt triggers on ar15.com and to call them to discuss disposal. 
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Posted: 5/15/2023 5:12:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MegaTarsal: Today i Received a nice letter from the alphabet boys via FedEx about supposedly buying "1 or more" frt triggers on ar15.com and to call them to discuss disposal.  I don't answer questions |
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Posted: 5/15/2023 5:18:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MegaTarsal: Today i Received a nice letter from the alphabet boys via FedEx about supposedly buying "1 or more" frt triggers on ar15.com and to call them to discuss disposal. |
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Posted: 5/15/2023 5:41:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Yeah bought one here inthe EE when they first came out. I'm assuming the seller kept a paper trail. I don't have any documentation for getting rid of mine a few months ago when the legality stuff became a concern
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Posted: 5/15/2023 5:53:21 PM EDT
[#35]
I would probably throw the notice away...
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Posted: 5/15/2023 6:11:31 PM EDT
[#36]
ATF has your info, it appears. EE seller ratted you out?
Even if you don't have it now, if you sold it after ATF deemed them to be "machineguns", couldn't that be problematic in and of itself? |
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Posted: 5/15/2023 6:16:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: ATF has your info, it appears. EE seller ratted you out? Even if you don't have it now, if you sold it after ATF deemed them to be "machineguns", couldn't that be problematic in and of itself? But ATF won't because they don't want to lose in criminal court. They'll wait for one to be used in a horrific crime or at least try to find a more unlikable criminal with one. |
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Posted: 5/15/2023 6:26:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MegaTarsal: Today i Received a nice letter from the alphabet boys via FedEx about supposedly buying "1 or more" frt triggers on ar15.com and to call them to discuss disposal. Jesus man, cross out the private bits and post a picture. I want to see how they worded this. |
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Posted: 5/15/2023 6:45:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MegaTarsal]
[#39]
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Posted: 5/15/2023 6:54:39 PM EDT
[#40]
This thread should be moved to team.
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Posted: 5/15/2023 7:04:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryI guess they don’t have the budget to go door to door anymore. Not very well written. A lot of mights. So one of us may or may not have ratted you out. Dick move. |
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Posted: 5/15/2023 7:21:29 PM EDT
[#42]
No maybe about it.
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Posted: 5/15/2023 7:35:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 0002s]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MegaTarsal: No maybe about it. Well his EE is going to blow up. “Fast shipper. Great communication….to the ATF” |
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Posted: 5/15/2023 7:57:58 PM EDT
[#44]
@ him in here to get some answers.
Was it coerced? Found in another criminal investigation? Or just a guy that really really wanted to get governed harder? Or was the seller an ATF front.... |
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Posted: 5/15/2023 8:26:38 PM EDT
[#45]
I have no recollection of who the seller was. Given my feedback and the time period....who knows
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Posted: 5/15/2023 8:28:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MegaTarsal: I have no recollection of who the seller was. Given my feedback and the time period....who knows Hahaha, I see that now, a bit more active on EE than me! |
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Posted: 5/15/2023 8:47:43 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By loon_138: Hahaha, I see that now, a bit more active on EE than me! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By loon_138: Originally Posted By MegaTarsal: I have no recollection of who the seller was. Given my feedback and the time period....who knows Hahaha, I see that now, a bit more active on EE than me! Really! 
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Posted: 6/3/2023 7:31:53 PM EDT
[#48]
Got a similar letter today, I bought one a couple years ago off Gunbroker. My letter calls out specifically GB and I guess the seller who sold me it, but it was like 2 maybe 3 years ago I got it. I think I traded it for an Eotech over a year ago. I am going to be curious to see what happens now. I guess at some point I may get a knock on the door.
Mine came USPS with a delivery confirmation. |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 5:30:51 PM EDT
[#49]
The ATF are busy around here calling for their WOT to be turned in. Heard today they are now visiting dealers for selling them. I personally know two people that have turned theirs in already. Was told the ATF said that they used shippers records to track the triggers down.
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Posted: 6/5/2023 6:41:44 PM EDT
[#50]
They are real busy. The Gov. forfeiture page is full of some of everything today.
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