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Posted: 5/9/2022 11:23:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Kind of seems like the forced reset trigger is dead. Everyone has been OOS for some time and it’s silent on all fronts.
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Posted: 5/9/2022 11:32:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By alpha0815: Kind of seems like the forced reset trigger is dead. Everyone has been OOS for some time and it's silent on all fronts. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2022 11:20:15 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: Rare breed seems to have lost a supplier. That's putting a damper on any getting shipped out. Graves Alamo-15 does not appear to be shipping, either (somebody I know ordered, and 2 weeks have passed with no shipping info). |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 11:53:15 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: Graves Alamo-15 does not appear to be shipping, either (somebody I know ordered, and 2 weeks have passed with no shipping info). Yeah I wasn't just referring to Rare Breed. Graves has been showing OOS as well. BDU doesn't have anything in stock either for weeks. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 2:27:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: Different one but: There is no way the lightweight carrier or AR-15 carriers can work because the trigger designs are such that the extra "meat" of the M16 bolt carrier contacts the back of the FRT or the Alamo and resets the trigger |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 3:18:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArkieSharpie: There is no way the lightweight carrier or AR-15 carriers can work because the trigger designs are such that the extra "meat" of the M16 bolt carrier contacts the back of the FRT or the Alamo and resets the trigger Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArkieSharpie: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: Different one but: There is no way the lightweight carrier or AR-15 carriers can work because the trigger designs are such that the extra "meat" of the M16 bolt carrier contacts the back of the FRT or the Alamo and resets the trigger this is incorrect Brownells and several other manufacturers that make lightweight carriers have an extra "web" where the full auto cut is, so it can activate the necessary parts in the trigger |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 3:23:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArkieSharpie: There is no way the lightweight carrier or AR-15 carriers can work because the trigger designs are such that the extra "meat" of the M16 bolt carrier contacts the back of the FRT or the Alamo and resets the trigger There are lightweight carriers with M16 trips. I use an aluminum one in this video:  Semi Auto VS Rare Breed FRT-15 VS Full Auto M16 |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2022 1:24:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By alpha0815: Yeah I wasn't just referring to Rare Breed. Graves has been showing OOS as well. BDU doesn't have anything in stock either for weeks. Optics Planet now shows Graves Alamo-15 trigger as Product Temporarily Unavailable. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2022 1:29:01 PM EDT
[#9]
https://blog.princelaw.com/2022/03/25/only-surrender-your-forced-reset-trigger-frt-to-atf-under-protest/
Be aware that the agent may attempt to have you sign an ATF 3400.1 Form – Consent to Forfeiture or Destruction of Property and Waiver of Notice – which you should NOT sign under ANY circumstance. In the event that they ask you to sign an ATF 3400.1, inform them that the only ATF form you are willing to sign is an ATF 3400.23 – Receipt of Property and Other Items, as the ATF 3400.23 does not contain language, wherein you agree to the forfeiture/destruction of your property. You should also attempt to take photos . . . |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 1:31:11 PM EDT
[#10]
There's some guy - a team member at that - who is selling a Tommy Trigger FRT-15-3MD in the EE for $2,000.
 Already 2 people stomped on his sale ad and got busted by a moderator. lol... |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 1:59:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: There's some guy - a team member at that - who is selling a Tommy Trigger FRT-15-3MD in the EE for $2,000. Already 2 people stomped on his sale ad and got busted by a moderator. lol... 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2022 2:07:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HK94dude: $2500 - $3000 new on Gunbroker all sold. 2k used sounds in line to me, but what do I know Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HK94dude: Originally Posted By jtb33: There's some guy - a team member at that - who is selling a Tommy Trigger FRT-15-3MD in the EE for $2,000. Already 2 people stomped on his sale ad and got busted by a moderator. lol... Dude, if they’re going for $2k I’m putting mine up tomorrow lol |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 2:16:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HK94dude: $2500 - $3000 new on Gunbroker all sold. 2k used sounds in line to me, but what do I know If you look at the two that are sold, they are both "sold" and then re-listed - at a lower price, which suggests that they didn't sell (shill?) or the buyer didn't pay. GB sellers frequently use a technique where they list something with a BUY price and have a shill purchase it so you can't see the user who bought it, and then list it again and do that once or twice more with similar prices to create a history of what appears to be successfully sold items (these will ALWAYS be Buy Now and NEVER will be actual multi-day auctions with multiple bidders). Then they list the item for a real multi-day auction at a high price, but a good amount lower than the "sold" prices on the completed items to attract potential bidders on 'what a deal' it must be because it's so much lower than what the other recent ones sold for. Good luck with your sale, but dollars to donuts, those didn't sell for $2,000 on GB, much less $2500-3000. |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 2:17:30 PM EDT
[#14]
There’s buy it now Graves/Alamo triggers on GB for $400-500,…..
There’s the one or two inflated FRTs but doesn’t look like the prices have all skyrocketed yet. |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 2:20:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: If you look at the two that are sold, they are both "sold" and then re-listed - at a lower price, which suggests that they didn't sell (shill?) or the buyer didn't pay. GB sellers frequently use a technique where they list something with a BUY price and have a shill purchase it so you can't see the user who bought it, and then list it again and do that once or twice more with similar prices to create a history of what appears to be successfully sold items (these will ALWAYS be Buy Now and NEVER will be actual multi-day auctions with multiple bidders). Then they list the item for a real multi-day auction at a high price, but a good amount lower than the "sold" prices on the completed items to attract potential bidders on 'what a deal' it must be because it's so much lower than what the other recent ones sold for. Good luck with your sale, but dollars to donuts, those didn't sell for $2,000 on GB, much less $2500-3000. |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 2:47:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jtb33]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: That's a pretty expensive tactic given Gunbroker fees and taxes. Edited to add: I could be wrong - but the fact that GB completed auctions would suggest that THREE people did "Buy Now's" for between $2000 and $2500, but the HK94dude's auction which was listed for a $1500 starting and no reserve, and he not only has considerably more feedback, longer GB history and better feedback, yet his auction got ZERO bids on his item (which could have been had for $1500) suggest that those are shill buyers on the completed ones done only to create the artificial perception of an inflated value for this item. |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 4:03:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: Nope. They don't actually buy it or pay for it. The seller reports it as a non-paying winner to recoup the fees. Edited to add: I could be wrong - but the fact that GB completed auctions would suggest that THREE people did "Buy Now's" for between $2000 and $2500, but the HK94dude's auction which was listed for a $1500 starting and no reserve, and he not only has considerably more feedback, longer GB history and better feedback, yet his auction got ZERO bids on his item (which could have been had for $1500) suggest that those are shill buyers on the completed ones done only to create the artificial perception of an inflated value for this item. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: Originally Posted By jaqufrost: That's a pretty expensive tactic given Gunbroker fees and taxes. Edited to add: I could be wrong - but the fact that GB completed auctions would suggest that THREE people did "Buy Now's" for between $2000 and $2500, but the HK94dude's auction which was listed for a $1500 starting and no reserve, and he not only has considerably more feedback, longer GB history and better feedback, yet his auction got ZERO bids on his item (which could have been had for $1500) suggest that those are shill buyers on the completed ones done only to create the artificial perception of an inflated value for this item. |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 4:13:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HK94dude: Thank you for the info. The only one other than mine I see for sale on Gunbroker stole my pic so it's probably a scam.  ). You should absolutely have the right to try to sell it for whatever the market will bear. I was just pointing out that it looks like someone (not you!) was trying to manipulate the demand for this item for some reason.All I have is the anecdotal evidence I posted above though. My opinion on it is worth what you paid for it. 
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Posted: 5/13/2022 4:25:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: And to be clear, I do apologize - it was not my intention to shame you on the price (though I would have taken a more nuanced approach if I knew you were in this thread! ). You should absolutely have the right to try to sell it for whatever the market will bear. I was just pointing out that it looks like someone (not you!) was trying to manipulate the demand for this item for some reason.All I have is the anecdotal evidence I posted above though. My opinion on it is worth what you paid for it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: Originally Posted By HK94dude: Thank you for the info. The only one other than mine I see for sale on Gunbroker stole my pic so it's probably a scam. ). You should absolutely have the right to try to sell it for whatever the market will bear. I was just pointing out that it looks like someone (not you!) was trying to manipulate the demand for this item for some reason.All I have is the anecdotal evidence I posted above though. My opinion on it is worth what you paid for it. On a more positive note, Rare Breed gen II, 3 position upgrade kits at Tommy Triggers |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2022 4:48:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HK94dude: No apology needed, we're good. If my price is out of line I would much rather somebody let me know than it not sell. No biggie On a more positive note, Rare Breed gen II, 3 position upgrade kits at Tommy Triggers It says both the 2nd and 3rd positions are Semi mode but doesn’t say whether or not that 3rd position keeps the forced reset mode. Anyone know? |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 4:50:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhisperPickle: It says both the 2nd and 3rd positions are Semi mode but doesn't say whether or not that 3rd position keeps the forced reset mode. Anyone know? |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 4:54:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jt526]
[#22]
I'm in for another one, I still don't have an FRT, but I'm down with the $ I made off selling the last tommytrigger kit I bought on gunbroker. It wasn't 2K for sure!
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SAU
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Posted: 5/13/2022 4:58:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhisperPickle: It says both the 2nd and 3rd positions are Semi mode but doesn’t say whether or not that 3rd position keeps the forced reset mode. Anyone know? Its probably their loophole. Seeing as the FRT IS a SEMI auto trigger... Its probably, SAFE, SEMI SINGLE, FRT SINGLE. lol just my intuition. |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 5:09:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HK94dude: No apology needed, we're good. If my price is out of line I would much rather somebody let me know than it not sell. No biggie On a more positive note, Rare Breed gen II, 3 position upgrade kits at Tommy Triggers That's about as confusing of a description as I can think of. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2022 5:51:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: Did you reach out to them to ask? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: Originally Posted By WhisperPickle: It says both the 2nd and 3rd positions are Semi mode but doesn't say whether or not that 3rd position keeps the forced reset mode. Anyone know? No, since it was already brought up here I figured someone here may already have one. I’ll reach out eventually if no one here knows though. Originally Posted By truedef: Its probably their loophole. Seeing as the FRT IS a SEMI auto trigger... Its probably, SAFE, SEMI SINGLE, FRT SINGLE. lol just my intuition. And you’re likely right but I’d rather not risk $350 on an assumption lol |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 7:01:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mPisi]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhisperPickle: No, since it was already brought up here I figured someone here may already have one. I’ll reach out eventually if no one here knows though. And you’re likely right but I’d rather not risk $350 on an assumption lol It would be almost funny if they sold a kit to remove the FRT capability, for those folks who liked the trigger pull so much on their RB custom trigger. Edit: ahhh, I read the text on the main page and understand. it is a FIRE-SINGLE-SINGLE system with the safety they include. They can't sell it with the old safety that would make it work as 3-position with the FRT function. They also have a Graves version. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2022 7:05:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mPisi: It would be almost funny if they sold a kit to remove the FRT capability, for those folks who liked the trigger pull so much on their RB custom trigger. I was looking for a 3-pos kit but it's a bit weird. Help us out, put a winky emoji in there or something. From their site… “Naturally by adding a disconnect it will make the trigger compliant to the latest ATF regulations. The kit will consist of a trigger, disconnect, hammer and a 3 position safety. The 3 positions will be a safe mode, semi mode (single fire) and the third mode will be semi mode (single fire) making the trigger a non machine gun according to the ATF. We will not be manufacturing or selling the older style safety selector that the third position was not single fire for obvious reasons.” So it’s entirely possible they’re selling a kit that removes the FRT capability. They already sell a replacement safety for their kit (if you had one of their 3 position kits already). |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 7:16:00 PM EDT
[#28]
lol... so why even bother with having a 3rd position option, then, if it's no different from the second position? Marketing?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2022 7:24:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: lol... so why even bother with having a 3rd position option, then, if it's no different from the second position? Marketing? Exactly! And for $350. That’s why I’m asking but it seems I may need to email them directly. |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 7:35:10 PM EDT
[#30]
I read it if you use the wrong safety, you would get the Semi-FRT 3rd position back. They can't sell that since obviously ATF thinks it is a machinegun until courts decide.
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Posted: 5/13/2022 7:54:18 PM EDT
[#31]
I'll bet a 20 piece McNugget an M16 selector would give you the FRT function back since you're adding a disconnector. Just my $0.02 and pure speculation
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2022 8:06:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Straight from the horses mouth…
“3rd position is same as 2nd position Has a different safety selector, that’s why I am able to sell them It only had single fire no frt brrrp mode” |
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Posted: 5/13/2022 9:14:19 PM EDT
[#33]
Kinda spendy for something that doesn't work...
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Posted: 5/13/2022 9:15:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mPisi: I read it if you use the wrong safety, you would get the Semi-FRT 3rd position back. They can't sell that since obviously ATF thinks it is a machinegun until courts decide. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2022 7:07:44 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HK94dude: I'll bet a 20 piece McNugget an M16 selector would give you the FRT function back since you're adding a disconnector. Just my $0.02 and pure speculation I find their website very confusing, but this is on their homepage... “PS: There is a slew of ambi 3 position safety selectors available on line, we highly discourage the purchase of these safety selectors due to the fact that it will turn the triggers like the rare breed back to a 3 position machine gun according to the ATF !!!!!” Is that what you’re referring to? |
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Posted: 5/14/2022 12:42:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CJofFL: I find their website very confusing, but this is on their homepage... “PS: There is a slew of ambi 3 position safety selectors available on line, we highly discourage the purchase of these safety selectors due to the fact that it will turn the triggers like the rare breed back to a 3 position machine gun according to the ATF !!!!!” Is that what you’re referring to? I am genuinely curious, for academic purposes, if (and how) would that work.... 
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Posted: 5/14/2022 2:30:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jt526]
[#37]
All it does is use the stock m16 safety to push down on the added disconnect, re-enabling the FRT function. So not really a machine gun unless you are the ATF and said "some things that look like this are machineguns but we are not going to tell you which ones."
I bought one to check it out and then sold it on gunbroker. Clever setup, similar to my lightning link 3 position kit made from a burst pack. Just ordered another to do the same thing most likely. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:13:24 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:28:32 PM EDT
[#39]
How about some explanation rather than just a random link?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:44:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tripntx]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: How about some explanation rather than just a random link? It a link to them filling a new lawsuit against ATF for ATF's illegal activities. The lawsuit is filled in North Dakota, where judges are more 2A friendly. Their complaint is long, and I thought it was well written. |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 8:46:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NostalgiaforInfinity]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: How about some explanation rather than just a random link? Edit: Forgot this wasn't GD Description is above. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:00:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Well, I just skimmed through the link (skimmed: to lightly read high lighted, and beginning of each section).
What I'm taking from this is that the guy who actually was making the FRT in Fargo, ND, is asking a judge to step in, and tell the FtheATF, to fuck off... Did not see the guy selling the FRTs in Florida's name anywhere Although, I just lightly read (skimmed) the link. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:40:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cressida: Well, I just skimmed through the link (skimmed: to lightly read high lighted, and beginning of each section). What I'm taking from this is that the guy who actually was making the FRT in Fargo, ND, is asking a judge to step in, and tell the FtheATF, to fuck off... Did not see the guy selling the FRTs in Florida's name anywhere Although, I just lightly read (skimmed) the link. Maxwell and Lawerance were both in there. ATF left completely finished FRT15's in seller package. They wouldn't confiscate them. Rare Breed finally started picking them up and transporting them for shipment. Eventually, ATF used threat of actual force to take over $650k worth of FRT's from RB in the parking lot. In the linked complaint, one of the ATF agents apologized saying he knew FRT was not a MG. A lot of information is listed in the complaint, including stuff not previously disclosed. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2022 9:53:04 PM EDT
[#44]
I read the whole thing.....WOW....
The ATF needs to be disbanded. They are WAY out of control. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2022 10:08:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Also being discussed in GD:
Newest return punch to the gut of the ATF |
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Posted: 5/19/2022 12:07:00 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: I read the whole thing.....WOW.... The ATF needs to be disbanded. They are WAY out of control. It’s sickening. They even broke out the zip tie to try to make it seem like the FRT wasn’t resetting or moving forward each time. This may be the biggest exposure of corruption we have seen from the AFT. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 10:45:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ArkieSharpie]
[#47]
New Development in the FRT/Alamo World
When you have a AR-15 with the forced reset by rare breed or the Alamo trigger there is now a ATF compliance kit for Sale at $325 This will make your firearm back to single shot and safe, So it takes away the ability to shoot as Force reset which is why you bought the damn thing!! Seems stupid? No read on Then you can buy a safety(selector) that is 3 position and you have safe,semi, and forced reset (brrrp) This new selector will not work with a Alamo or FRT that doesnt have the upgrade kit installed) Whats the adavantage? Well, it takes about 20-30 minutes to uninstall your forced reset trigger with the anti walk pins and install your original hammer,trigger and disconnector.Then no one can say you have a machine gun. Then when you want your super fast firing trigger that ATF says is a machine gun, take the 20-30 minutes to put in in ,then rock and roll and take it out again With the upgrade kit in there you can swap safety selectors back and forth in a matter of 3 minutes!! If you take 3 minutes to install the ATF compliant selector then it cannot shoot more than one round Period. No one could say your gun is a Full Auto Then when you reinstall the BRRP selector you have a 3 position firearm which is why you bought the Bad Boy Alamo or Rare Breed in the First place the videos below explains it in great detail Short Scoop on New Trigger Upgrades Long Version on the Upgrade Kit and Selector to make the Rare Breed and Alamo into 3 Position Triggers |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 11:06:42 AM EDT
[#48]
To be consistent (not the ATF's strong suit), if these lawsuits don't pan out the way we hope they will, I'm sure the ATF will put the FRT's in the same bucket as a DIAS, LL, a 3rd hole on a receiver, or a FA sear setup - that's their objective. Unfortunately, that means that merely possessing a FRT in and of itself, ATF will consider it a machinegun regardless of it actually being installed in an AR or not - and regardless of any additional special parts put in it to restrict its functionality.
Seems like a real stretch to sell a $325 kit (on top of a $350 trigger), when FRT owners are in the middle of litigation that could likely relegate possessing the FRT's to the same status as a DIAS or LL. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 6:11:46 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: To be consistent (not the ATF's strong suit), if these lawsuits don't pan out the way we hope they will, I'm sure the ATF will put the FRT's in the same bucket as a DIAS, LL, a 3rd hole on a receiver, or a FA sear setup - that's their objective. Unfortunately, that means that merely possessing a FRT in and of itself, ATF will consider it a machinegun regardless of it actually being installed in an AR or not - and regardless of any additional special parts put in it to restrict its functionality. Seems like a real stretch to sell a $325 kit (on top of a $350 trigger), when FRT owners are in the middle of litigation that could likely relegate possessing the FRT's to the same status as a DIAS or LL. That’s kind of the point of the lawsuit. None of these triggers function in a way that meets the definition of a machine gun. AFT is not able to make or change the wording of a law, that is up to congress. Just because a zebra kind of looks like a horse it doesn’t make it one. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 8:30:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ajd0: That’s kind of the point of the lawsuit. None of these triggers function in a way that meets the definition of a machine gun. AFT is not able to make or change the wording of a law, that is up to congress. Just because a zebra kind of looks like a horse it doesn’t make it one. LOL. They do not need congress. Tell me how the bumpstock got banned? It just used a standard semi auto trigger. They just made a BS description of how it worked to make it into a machine gun. What about a shoe string? |
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